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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #1  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:08 AM
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135i lightweight?

Since the numbers are out on the weight of the U.S. 1, I have to say I'm a bit confused. Why couldn't BMW give us a lighter 1 than they are offering? I know that using lighter materials in the chassis would bring the costs up, but come on- weighing more than my current E46 is just ridiculous! Do you guys think they'll do a M version in the future that's around 2900 lbs with stronger turbos? Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting a 135, but I wish I could get a gutted version.
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:11 AM
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Thank the US for its nit picky safety standards and specifications = more weight.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
Do you guys think they'll do a M version in the future that's around 2900 lbs with stronger turbos? Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting a 135, but I wish I could get a gutted version.

No. If BMW AG does make a light weight, they won't sell it here. BMWNA doesn't think there is a market.
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:51 AM
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Get a stock 135 and gut it! Why pay more for less?!
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:42 PM
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To do what it would take to get the 1 series anywhere near 2900 lbs (with driver, per the same standard being used for the normal model) would require extensive use of light (and expensive) materials in addition to a serious gutting program. To give you an idea of how much would be required: the WTCC E90 cars (320i based - 3160 lbs stock - and stripped to the shell with no real interior whatsoever, save the addition of a roll cage) weigh in at around 2500 lbs (with driver).

The car would cost tens of thousands more. Who's going to pay for that? Not me. I'd just buy a Boxster/Cayman (which is already under 3000 lbs) instead.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:46 PM
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3287 isn't *that* heavy. It's roughly E36 weight for a car roughly E36-sized.
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:49 PM
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3287 isn't *that* heavy. It's roughly E36 weight for a car roughly E36-sized.
3287? I don't know where that's coming from. The US spec E36 weights include the driver and fuel as well - you cannot subtract those from the 1er to make a comparison.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:23 PM
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I'd just buy a Boxster/Cayman (which is already under 3000 lbs) instead.
Bingo, that's my problem with the 135i. In my mind, being impractical and expensive it competes with more dedicated sports cars, new and used.
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Old 07-12-2007, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Vornado View Post
Thank the US for its nit picky safety standards and specifications = more weight.
Bullsh!t. The Mazda3 2.3 5 door hatch is 6 inches longer and several inches taller than the 1 series but significantly lighter (sub 3000 lbs). Hell the Mazdaspeed3 is about 3100 lbs and that thing is huge compared to a 1 series. People like to blame safety standards but there are cars that are light. The only reason the 1 series is over 3300 lbs: BMW doesn't give a damn about vehicle weight. If BMW cared about bloat, we wouldn't have 3600 lbs 3 series cars.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Bullsh!t. The Mazda3 2.3 5 door hatch is 6 inches longer and several inches taller than the 1 series but significantly lighter (sub 3000 lbs). Hell the Mazdaspeed3 is about 3100 lbs and that thing is huge compared to a 1 series. People like to blame safety standards but there are cars that are light. The only reason the 1 series is over 3300 lbs: BMW doesn't give a damn about vehicle weight. If BMW cared about bloat, we wouldn't have 3600 lbs 3 series cars.
I'm honestly inclined to agree with this.

I can't for the life of me figure out what accounts for the entire 200 lb difference between my E46 sedan and the current 328i sedan - especially when BMW claims that the E90 body shell is actually lighter than the smaller E46 shell.

The Mazda 3 is much larger in person than you might expect. It's definitely bigger than the 1 series.
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  #11  
Old 07-12-2007, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
To do what it would take to get the 1 series anywhere near 2900 lbs (with driver, per the same standard being used for the normal model) would require extensive use of light (and expensive) materials in addition to a serious gutting program. To give you an idea of how much would be required: the WTCC E90 cars (320i based - 3160 lbs stock - and stripped to the shell with no real interior whatsoever, save the addition of a roll cage) weigh in at around 2500 lbs (with driver).

The car would cost tens of thousands more. Who's going to pay for that? Not me. I'd just buy a Boxster/Cayman (which is already under 3000 lbs) instead.
I don't think those of us out there who are considering a 135i are in the market for a car that costs almost twice as much.
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
I'm honestly inclined to agree with this.

I can't for the life of me figure out what accounts for the entire 200 lb difference between my E46 sedan and the current 328i sedan - especially when BMW claims that the E90 body shell is actually lighter than the smaller E46 shell.

The Mazda 3 is much larger in person than you might expect. It's definitely bigger than the 1 series.
Then why can't(won't) BMW build a 1 series at least as light as a Mazda 3?
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:55 PM
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Maybe it's a fault of platform//component sharing? The Scion TC weighs 3k lbs! Why on earth would a car that small weigh 3000 pounds?
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
I'm honestly inclined to agree with this.

I can't for the life of me figure out what accounts for the entire 200 lb difference between my E46 sedan and the current 328i sedan - especially when BMW claims that the E90 body shell is actually lighter than the smaller E46 shell.
It's 3340 lbs, right? Isn't your E46 about that?

More electronics, more sound deadening, the stereo's probably heavier, who knows.

The 1 series has a slightly longer wheelbase than the Mazda 3, so I'd expect the weight to be similar. The 3 probably has less electronics & sound deadening, 4 cylinder engine etc.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:01 PM
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I guess the dead hookers in the trunk come standard now, instead of in the ZDH package.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:21 PM
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I don't think those of us out there who are considering a 135i are in the market for a car that costs almost twice as much.
Or else we would have bought the more expensive car. The next person who compares a 135i to a Cayman can give me the extra 30k needed to make the jump.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:34 PM
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Or else we would have bought the more expensive car. The next person who compares a 135i to a Cayman can give me the extra 30k needed to make the jump.
Amen. Someone hands me the 30k difference and I will gladly take the Cayman. Quite honestly, it's one of the sexiest cars ever put on the road.


I hope to get a used one in the future as an extra car. We're talking 5-6 years down the line.
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Old 07-12-2007, 03:40 PM
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It's 3340 lbs, right? Isn't your E46 about that?

More electronics, more sound deadening, the stereo's probably heavier, who knows.

The 1 series has a slightly longer wheelbase than the Mazda 3, so I'd expect the weight to be similar. The 3 probably has less electronics & sound deadening, 4 cylinder engine etc.
My E46 is 3150 lbs (well, slightly heavier, as mine has a moonroof).

My best guess is that sound deadening/insulation and added equipment are a large part of it. I considered the runflats as well - but then, the E90 doesn't have a spare.
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:40 PM
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I've driven my brothers Cayman S, pretty hard on some curvey, challenging mountain roads and allthough it was very buttoned down, I can't see the 135i being $30k less of a car. I know the mid-engine setup provides for better wieght distribution, but $30k better? I don't think so- especally since I drove a 335i at a BMW Performance Driving Day and was totally blown away by its throttle response and handling. How much less does the 1 wiegh than a 335i coupe?
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:57 PM
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3 series is not a blown away kind of car, imho. I had an e90. Got rid of it because the car was so banal in terms of feedback, cornering, sound, all-around driving. Buttoned-down and basically a tomb of boredom.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:07 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
I've driven my brothers Cayman S, pretty hard on some curvey, challenging mountain roads and allthough it was very buttoned down, I can't see the 135i being $30k less of a car. I know the mid-engine setup provides for better wieght distribution, but $30k better? I don't think so- especally since I drove a 335i at a BMW Performance Driving Day and was totally blown away by its throttle response and handling. How much less does the 1 wiegh than a 335i coupe?
The Cayman is overpriced. The Boxster is slightly overpriced.

Buy a used one and that's not an issue. You can pick a 987S with less than 10k miles for around 45k. That's right about what a 335i coupe would run you with just a few options.
The 135i is 3439 lbs - about 150 lbs lighter than the 335i - and 500+ lbs heavier than the Boxster/Cayman.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:46 PM
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I think I'll still be buying a 135i when it comes out- might wait to do a ED near the middle of 08.
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Old 07-12-2007, 05:50 PM
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Then why can't(won't) BMW build a 1 series at least as light as a Mazda 3?

They could but then it would be like a Mazda.

I've got a 2006 MX-5. It weighs about 2400 lbs. Mazda did extensive gram and $ shaving on the car.

Here are some examples that might put off a BMW buyer:

Manual seats with no height adjustment. If you don't fit, too bad.
Aluminum Hood, deck and trunk lid. Lighter yes, but doesn't have that steel feel.
Exceptionaly high strength steel in the thinnest possible gauge. Saved 10kg but the body panels are thin.
The carpet mats are so thin I've worn through the drivers side at 5000 miles.
The carpet is really thin and cheap. I'm going to have to replace the mats so I don't ruin the carpet.
There is no back side to the rear view mirror. Saves 8 grams
Plastic intake manifold (oh wait BMW does that too)
No spare. No runflats. (good) No TPMS. Saves weight but ummmm
Very little sound insulation.
Just about zero insulation in the trunk. The trunk gets really hot because the muffler is underneath the trunk.
Thin plastic trim.
Uninsulated top.
Plastic sunvisors. No vanity lights either.
World's smallest battery. Better not leave the headlights on.



FWIW I approve of what Mazda did. They made good choices and hit a decent target price. BMW gives us the Z4 instead. Entirely different cars. Same goes for the 'Speed 3 vs. the 135i
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 07-12-2007 at 07:12 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Bullsh!t. The Mazda3 2.3 5 door hatch is 6 inches longer and several inches taller than the 1 series but significantly lighter (sub 3000 lbs). Hell the Mazdaspeed3 is about 3100 lbs and that thing is huge compared to a 1 series. People like to blame safety standards but there are cars that are light. The only reason the 1 series is over 3300 lbs: BMW doesn't give a damn about vehicle weight. If BMW cared about bloat, we wouldn't have 3600 lbs 3 series cars.
+1.

I'm not sure where the 135i fits in the market if it weights as much as the 335i.... less space but same speed? What's the advantage in that?
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Old 07-12-2007, 06:44 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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+1.

I'm not sure where the 135i fits in the market if it weights as much as the 335i.... less space but same speed? What's the advantage in that?
This is why pricing is so critical for this model. The main sell? It needs to be cheaper. Plus, most people automatically think small = light.
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