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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #26  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:47 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Originally Posted by DuSpinnst View Post
Or else we would have bought the more expensive car. The next person who compares a 135i to a Cayman can give me the extra 30k needed to make the jump.
Reading comprehension, folks.

I wasn't comparing the 135i to a Cayman. I was comparing the cost of a theoretical CSL/lightweight 135i to the cost of a Cayman. Point being: I wouldn't spend 60k on a stripped 1 series when I could have a better looking, more prestigious car that was designed to be that light in the first place.
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  #27  
Old 07-12-2007, 06:57 PM
LS2 MN6 LS2 MN6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
Reading comprehension, folks.

I wasn't comparing the 135i to a Cayman. I was comparing the cost of a theoretical CSL/lightweight 135i to the cost of a Cayman. Point being: I wouldn't spend 60k on a stripped 1 series when I could have a better looking, more prestigious car that was designed to be that light in the first place.
Who would, that is crazy talk.

I think the CSL BMW's are pointless unless you race them.
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  #28  
Old 07-12-2007, 07:43 PM
shingles shingles is offline
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they that keep wanting the 135 to be the same weight as the Mazda3... have you actually driven on and lived with one? I have.... I owned one for a year and dumped it. It's not that quiet, the material isn't that great, etc... plus RWD will add some weight penalty, the I6 weighs more than the 4 cylinder, add two turbos, that adds weight as well. etc etc...

don't get me wrong, I too wish that it was < 3000lbs...

Last edited by shingles; 07-12-2007 at 07:46 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-12-2007, 08:41 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Originally Posted by shingles View Post
they that keep wanting the 135 to be the same weight as the Mazda3... have you actually driven on and lived with one? I have.... I owned one for a year and dumped it. It's not that quiet, the material isn't that great, etc... plus RWD will add some weight penalty, the I6 weighs more than the 4 cylinder, add two turbos, that adds weight as well. etc etc...

don't get me wrong, I too wish that it was < 3000lbs...
I'd commute in an Arial Atom if it never rained.

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  #30  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
They could but then it would be like a Mazda.

I've got a 2006 MX-5. It weighs about 2400 lbs. Mazda did extensive gram and $ shaving on the car.

Here are some examples that might put off a BMW buyer:

Manual seats with no height adjustment. If you don't fit, too bad.
Aluminum Hood, deck and trunk lid. Lighter yes, but doesn't have that steel feel.
e92 has plastic fenders, and aluminum is always viewed as a positive choice for body parts on cars.

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Exceptionally high strength steel in the thinnest possible gauge. Saved 10kg but the body panels are thin.
My e90's rear 3/4 panel dented when I leaned against it. I'm five-seven and weigh 145 lbs! That's was a $200+ repair. BMW's metal is thin to say the least.

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No spare. No runflats. (good) No TPMS. Saves weight but ummmm
RFTs are an option on the NC Miata and TPMS is mandated by law for 2007. RFTs are worthless and I replaced them on my e90 and drove without a spare - that's what a cell phone and roadside assistance are for.

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Very little sound insulation.
Just about zero insulation in the trunk. The trunk gets really hot because the muffler is underneath the trunk.
No need for sound insulation or any kind of insulation in a car, thanks.

Quote:
Thin plastic trim.
Uninsulated top.
Plastic sunvisors. No vanity lights either.
Never use sun visors and if you want an insulated top buy the MX-5 hardtop.

Quote:
World's smallest battery. Better not leave the headlights on.
This is bad?! One could only wish BMW would shave the weight of the battery.

But I've loved the MX-5 since the NA (my sister had one - manual and bare bones). My mother has an NB. Fanstastically fun cars. I was so close to buying an NC when my fiancee informed me she would only ride in it with the top up. No f'ing way I'm driving an NC with the top up in San Diego. That's like dating Scarlett Johansson and insisting she wear a mumu.
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  #31  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:39 PM
LonghornTX LonghornTX is offline
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Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
Bingo, that's my problem with the 135i. In my mind, being impractical and expensive it competes with more dedicated sports cars, new and used.
Well, what we have heard points to 4 person seating in the 135i, the same cannot be said for the Cayman.
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  #32  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:40 PM
LonghornTX LonghornTX is offline
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
3287? I don't know where that's coming from. The US spec E36 weights include the driver and fuel as well - you cannot subtract those from the 1er to make a comparison.
That is the weight of the 135i minus driver and luggage, aka, the true "curb weight".
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  #33  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:42 PM
LonghornTX LonghornTX is offline
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Bullsh!t. The Mazda3 2.3 5 door hatch is 6 inches longer and several inches taller than the 1 series but significantly lighter (sub 3000 lbs). Hell the Mazdaspeed3 is about 3100 lbs and that thing is huge compared to a 1 series. People like to blame safety standards but there are cars that are light. The only reason the 1 series is over 3300 lbs: BMW doesn't give a damn about vehicle weight. If BMW cared about bloat, we wouldn't have 3600 lbs 3 series cars.
Have you actually driven a 3?

If so, I would say you would probably be able to tell where the extra weight goes to in the BMW.....
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  #34  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LonghornTX View Post
Have you actually driven a 3?

If so, I would say you would probably be able to tell where the extra weight goes to in the BMW.....
I owned a 2003 330i ZHP and a 2006 e90 ZSP. I'm pretty familiar with the 3. There's a reason that 2006 330i is not in my garage anymore...it was a massive car and zero fun.
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  #35  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:19 AM
LonghornTX LonghornTX is offline
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
I owned a 2003 330i ZHP and a 2006 e90 ZSP. I'm pretty familiar with the 3. There's a reason that 2006 330i is not in my garage anymore...it was a massive car and zero fun.
I meant the mazda 3.

While the ZHP was very special, I feel the general e90 is the overall better platform. True, the ZHP is more raw and involving and it is more lightweight, but the e90 is stiffer and rides better IMO. We shall see how involving this E82 coupe ends up being compared to the e46, but all signs point to the 135i being setup as a serious drivers car. Even given its higher weight, I would not be the least bit suprised if it outperformed the ZHP in pretty much all categories.

And I am very happy that they chose the non-lightweight option for the brakes (i.e. 6 piston, fixed calipers), my parent's 04' 330ci experiences brake fade much too quickly for my taste.....
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  #36  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:31 AM
bimmerdreng bimmerdreng is offline
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well i have driven the 5 door 130i, and that car is fantastic, it drives fast, its such a fun car to drive i love that one. 0-100 km/h in 6,1 sec. You just cant stop smiling

AN amazing car, so i guess the 135i coupe will be just as fun or even more, even that i gains some pounds.
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  #37  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
But I've loved the MX-5 since the NA (my sister had one - manual and bare bones).
At the bottom of my post I said I approved of the choices Mazda made.

I have an NC now and I'd buy it again. Top is only up if it is too wet or too cold to fold.


My point is most US BMW customers wouldn't take a BMW built like that. No power seats?

But it is about 600lbs lighter than a Z4.
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  #38  
Old 07-13-2007, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornTX View Post
That is the weight of the 135i minus driver and luggage, aka, the true "curb weight".
That's the 32xx lb weight number quoted. Every time I see it, it varies slightly after kg to lb conversion.

When you convert the "EU unladen" weight quoted in the UK brochure (which does include passenger and luggage) you get the 34xx lb weight. But I think the 32xx lb weight still includes a full tank of gas.
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  #39  
Old 07-13-2007, 05:54 AM
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People can argue about the true curb weight, but if it's only 120 lbs lighter than the 335i coupe, it's definitely heavy.

What appeals to me is the short wheelbase and the good looks, and of course the idea it's a brand new car w/ 4 years free maintenance that might be $35k by Euro Delivery.

If the moonroof is optional (meaning I can fit easily), I'll seriously consider it. A Cooper S like I want it will be like $30k.
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  #40  
Old 07-13-2007, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
At the bottom of my post I said I approved of the choices Mazda made.

I have an NC now and I'd buy it again. Top is only up if it is too wet or too cold to fold.


My point is most US BMW customers wouldn't take a BMW built like that. No power seats?

But it is about 600lbs lighter than a Z4.
I know I was just going through the stuff you wrote. The NC's a fun damn car.
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  #41  
Old 07-13-2007, 07:26 AM
LonghornTX LonghornTX is offline
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Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
People can argue about the true curb weight, but if it's only 120 lbs lighter than the 335i coupe, it's definitely heavy.

What appeals to me is the short wheelbase and the good looks, and of course the idea it's a brand new car w/ 4 years free maintenance that might be $35k by Euro Delivery.

If the moonroof is optional (meaning I can fit easily), I'll seriously consider it. A Cooper S like I want it will be like $30k.
I agree.
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  #42  
Old 07-13-2007, 08:58 AM
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These new cars with all these safety features to prevent lawsuits end up weighing quite a bit in the end. The seats alone with all those air-bags in them along with the motors to move them are very heavy. Swapping a few parts in this new 135i and the 135i will be one great athlete If you care about the weight then the weight problem is very easy to fix. Replacing the seats in the front to lighter weight seats, wheels with lighter weight wheels and swapping the exhaust to a lighter weight exhuast will leave you very happy. I drove my current 130i straight from the dealership to my friend's tuning shop. The tuning started 1 hour after I got my car
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  #43  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
These new cars with all these safety features to prevent lawsuits end up weighing quite a bit in the end.
That's simply untrue. Stop repeating that because it's patently false...

MX5
Mazda3
Mazdaspeed3
Cayman
S2000
911s
Boxster
Z4

Are all small and light.
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  #44  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:41 AM
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Numbers from autos.msn.com

135i 3293 ?? US specs not out yet
MazdaSpeed 3 3153
VW GTI 3100 (not the R32)
Z4 3.0i 3020
Mazda 3 2900
S2000 2855
Mini Cooper 2596
MX-5 2474 (2441 with AC delete)
Elise 1984


Most versions of the 911 are a few hundred pounds heavier than the 135i. Not that they are in the same league anyway.
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  #45  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:42 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornTX View Post
That is the weight of the 135i minus driver and luggage, aka, the true "curb weight".
That's fine, but for the umpteenth time: I don't know about your car, but mine isn't going anywhere without me (or somebody) driving it. So it makes sense to leave the driver in there.

Especially since all of BMW's quoted curb weights include a driver. For the sake of a fair comparison with BMW's other cars (with E46, E90, Z4 etc) it's simpler to just use the quoted weights. Though if you're comparing it to a Mazda, Lexus, etc, then removing the driver is fine.

It'd be nice if BMW were as precise and clear as Porsche in this matter. For US-spec cars, Porsche quotes standard (DIN) curb weights. On their German language site, they quote both DIN and EEC/EU guideline weight (DIN + driver/luggage).
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Last edited by akhbhaat; 07-13-2007 at 10:52 AM.
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  #46  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
Numbers from autos.msn.com

135i 3293 ?? US specs not out yet
MazdaSpeed 3 3153
VW GTI 3100 (not the R32)
Z4 3.0i 3020
Mazda 3 2900
S2000 2855
Mini Cooper 2596
MX-5 2474 (2441 with AC delete)
Elise 1984


Most versions of the 911 are a few hundred pounds heavier than the 135i. Not that they are in the same league anyway.
And they do weigh quite a bit in the end... the wrong end.
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  #47  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
That's simply untrue. Stop repeating that because it's patently false...

MX5
Mazda3
Mazdaspeed3
Cayman
S2000
911s
Boxster
Z4

Are all small and light.
Mazda's and Honda's are cheaper Japanese cars. The Japanese usually make things lighter. The Porsche is a high end sports car so weight is something the manufacturer thinks about. The Z4 was built as a sports coupe or Roadster. The 130i was built as a compact sedan or compact coupe with quality and safety in mind. Even a VW Golf will weigh more then an Integra or Civic. The Germans have quality,safety and luxury in mind when they build their cars.
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  #48  
Old 07-13-2007, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
Mazda's and Honda's are cheaper Japanese cars. The Japanese usually make things lighter. The Porsche is a high end sports car so weight is something the manufacturer thinks about. The Z4 was built as a sports coupe or Roadster. The 130i was built as a compact sedan or compact coupe with quality and safety in mind. Even a VW Golf will weigh more then an Integra or Civic. The Germans have quality,safety and luxury in mind when they build their cars.
Thanks for reminding me of the A3 and GTI which will also be lighter than the porky BMW.

Quality, safety and luxury have nothing to do with weight. This is an excuse people are using to justify BMW's spiraling obesity.
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  #49  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:59 PM
RedBread RedBread is offline
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Thanks for reminding me of the A3 and GTI which will also be lighter than the porky BMW.

Quality, safety and luxury have nothing to do with weight. This is an excuse people are using to justify BMW's spiraling obesity.
First, Audi/VW has never built a light car. The A3 3.2 (comparable motor size, if not power to the 135i) is listed unladen at 3660 and the 2.0 fwd is listed unladen at 3329. The GTI is listed at 3100 pounds on Edmunds, I don't know if that's unladen or not. But the more comparable R32 will be well over 3500 pounds.

Heavier cars, sad as it is, are safer just because of that. Look at what happens in minor accidents to Elises, or even Miatae (I had one, great car, but they don't survive accidents well). They're not as much fun to drive, my buddy had an Exige that was great to track, but pushing it through traffic was intimidating. Camry's door handles are higher than the roof of the car. You wouldn't survive an accident with a Suzuki sedan, much less a Suburban. Further, close the door on an S-Class and try the same thing in an E-Class. Same thing for small bumps. Weight is frequently a result of added feel and the perception of quality. It inversely effects how fun a car is to drive, but it does gererally make them safer and adds to most peoples' perception of quality. My porky 3050 pound M Coupe sure feels more solid and luxurious than my Miata did, but it's seldomly more fun to drive.

I do agree that it's unfortunate that the 135i is shaping up to be so heavy, relative to the 335i, and that single fact is keeping me from getting in line for ED of one. Oddly to some, the alternative is a Cayman. Just because you can afford a certain car doesn't mean that cheaper cars can't appeal to you at the same time, or that you must run out and buy all that you can afford. The 135i on paper offers a better all around package to me than an E92 M3 and should be more fun to drive, but right now, my instinct tells me the Cayman will still be better, and if someone takes a year's worth of depreciation for me, they're not that different in price.

Ben
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Last edited by RedBread; 07-13-2007 at 02:02 PM.
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  #50  
Old 07-13-2007, 02:03 PM
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I just drove my first new 3 series, a 328Xi coupe that I got as a loaner car. I think the car has 200 lbs of sound deadening - I cannot hear the engine whether the windows are down or up. It's like Toyota quiet.
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