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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 07-18-2007, 10:53 PM
nocloud nocloud is offline
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$50 "Document Fee"

One dealer I'm talking with tells me there is a $50 document fee on all new cars. So in addition to charging tax, liscencing, and title fees, they also include this last little surprise. I've never heard of a document fee before. Is this complete BS and should I go to a different dealer?

The deal he is giving me is $39500 on a 335i. The only option is the automatic transmission and metallic paint (invoice $38,205).
Would that be worth it even with his document fee? I'm buying not leasing.

Last edited by nocloud; 07-18-2007 at 11:10 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2007, 10:59 PM
clarkcc1 clarkcc1 is offline
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depends on state law and local practices. You need to have full disclosure when you ask questions like that to the forum... For example- if the dealer charges no "dealer processing fee" or the like, $50 is very reasonable. If they are charging one already and maxing out the markup on acquistion fees and such, no you shouldn't agree to that. All depends on the rest of the deal's details.
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:10 PM
nocloud nocloud is offline
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thanks, i've edited my original post to include more information
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:44 PM
clarkcc1 clarkcc1 is offline
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with your additional info... in N.Va for example, you'd get tax, title, registration, and a document/processing fee of (at a minimum) $100-300. If you're doing US delivery you might also be hit with MACO and or Training fees of a couple hundred bucks. So I certainly wouldn't gripe given the details you've shared.
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2011 335i E93 via ED on June 30, 2011 almost entirely identical to my 07 below...



BMWCCA# 363102
Retired:
2004 325Ci coupe Silvergrey/Sand/step/loaded - sold 8/2007
2007 335i convertible, space grey/coral red/grey poplar, step, paddles, premium, sport, cold weather, PDC, comfort access, iDrive, sirius, 6FL ... succumbed to fuel pump too many times, bought back via lemon laws by BMW NA
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2007, 11:47 PM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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A document fee is virtually universal these days and a $50 fee is getting to be a downright bargain. I'm surprise it's not more in Cali.
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  #6  
Old 07-19-2007, 05:28 AM
rtcomm rtcomm is offline
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i paid a $400 fee !@$%^&*!
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  #7  
Old 07-19-2007, 07:31 AM
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Davisjl Davisjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocloud View Post
One dealer I'm talking with tells me there is a $50 document fee on all new cars. So in addition to charging tax, liscencing, and title fees, they also include this last little surprise. I've never heard of a document fee before. Is this complete BS and should I go to a different dealer?

The deal he is giving me is $39500 on a 335i. The only option is the automatic transmission and metallic paint (invoice $38,205).
Would that be worth it even with his document fee? I'm buying not leasing.
http://edbmw.com/blog/2007/01/23/buy...hould-you-pay/

looks like California has a capped Document fee of 45 bucks, but to be honest I find that fee to be bogus... However, the only way to avoid it is to be willing to walk away. I can't imagine a dealership losing a sale of the car over 50 bucks. I'm sure they'll say "It's only 50 dollars, are you willing to lose the car over 50 dollars?" I just say ... "If it's only 50 dollars, they you won't mind paying it. Are you willing to lose the sale of this car over 50 dollars?" However, you have to be willing to walk away.

I try to negotiate in Drive out cost, so any fees they want to add are not a surprise at the closing table.

What kind of 335i is this, Sedan, coupe, convertable?
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Last edited by Davisjl; 07-19-2007 at 07:34 AM.
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2007, 08:34 AM
jmonier jmonier is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
A document fee is virtually universal these days and a $50 fee is getting to be a downright bargain. I'm surprise it's not more in Cali.
In California it's limited by law to $45.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2007, 08:39 AM
Patrick Patrick is offline
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You are buying a $39000 vehicle, and you are pissed off and considering walking due to a $50 doc fee?

Wow.


.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2007, 09:50 AM
josephvman josephvman is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
You are buying a $39000 vehicle, and you are pissed off and considering walking due to a $50 doc fee?

Wow.


.

+1

I can't believe it took this far into the thread for someone to say this.
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2007, 10:52 AM
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Rmart Rmart is offline
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I can't believe how naive people can be. All those added fees are a ripoff. Almost every car dealer will try and shaft you any chance they get. There are very few if any mandatory fees that state, local of federal governments mandate on car dealers. MACO fees are one of the most outrageous. Who says you should pay a MACO fee? The car dealer associations? Give me a break. They are all just scams to bleed extra money from you.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:27 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
You are buying a $39000 vehicle, and you are pissed off and considering walking due to a $50 doc fee?

Wow.


.
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephvman View Post
+1

I can't believe it took this far into the thread for someone to say this.
We've been exercising restraint.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2007, 11:49 AM
nocloud nocloud is offline
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its a sedan that i'm looking to buy


and its not a matter of $50 being too much or anything like that, its just more a matter of principle for me, i see the $50 as a complete rip of and just another dealer trying to take advantage of the customer. the fact that it is capped at $45 in california and they are trying to make me pay $50 is a further insult.

if they are giving me an absolutely awesome deal, i would perhaps forgive them, but at $1295 over invoice, i'm pretty confident i can probably get a better deal somewhere else and not have to pay a document fee. correct me if i am wrong.
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2007, 12:41 PM
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Davisjl Davisjl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocloud View Post
its a sedan that i'm looking to buy


and its not a matter of $50 being too much or anything like that, its just more a matter of principle for me, i see the $50 as a complete rip of and just another dealer trying to take advantage of the customer. the fact that it is capped at $45 in california and they are trying to make me pay $50 is a further insult.

if they are giving me an absolutely awesome deal, i would perhaps forgive them, but at $1295 over invoice, i'm pretty confident i can probably get a better deal somewhere else and not have to pay a document fee. correct me if i am wrong.
Just tell them to pay the document fee... sell you the car at 1245 over invoice. 1295 is a fair deal on the sedan, not the best in the world, but not the worst either.

Next time deal in Drive-out cost. Take the price you are willing to pay, add your tag,title and lemon fee's (41 dollars here in GA I think) add your sales tax and make your offer to the dealer in DRIVE OUT cost. They can add all the MACO, Training, documentation fee's they want.... the price will still be the same.
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Last edited by Davisjl; 07-19-2007 at 12:44 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2007, 01:14 PM
my03330ci my03330ci is offline
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Try some other dealers, for 07 Sedans they are going for $750-1K over invoice with no MACO or training fees in the bay area.
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2007, 01:18 PM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmonier View Post
In California it's limited by law to $45.
It's now limited to $55, and it's standard practice at most dealerships.
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2007, 02:25 PM
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Davisjl Davisjl is offline
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Originally Posted by philippek View Post
It's now limited to $55, and it's standard practice at most dealerships.
It may be standard practice, but it's hardly a required fee. In the end, it's just another way to nickle and dime the sale for those that wish to deal with over invoice pricing. I had a dealership wanting to charge me for mats and mud guards years ago on a nissan maxima I had 10 years ago. I had negotiated the price and the dealer found the car at a different dealership for me. He went and got it, but when I came to pay he said it was 175 dollars more for the mats and the mud guards.... I told him to take them off or I'd just go somewhere else and buy the car. He decided to leave them on and not charge me for them.

When there are this many car dealerships in the market, you have all the power on cars that aren't hot sellers. The Sedan is not a quick selling car at the moment. The power is in your hands, but you have to be willing to walk. I don't really feel bad for the dealership, because as you've seen when the car is a hot seller and they don't have to deal, such as the coupe and the convertable .... they have no issues with telling you to go somewhere else.

I understand that they need to make money, which is why I said 1295 isn't a bad deal. It fair profit for the dealer; however, I'm sure there are dealers that are willing to sell it cheaper if you choose to look around.

Again, if you're dealing with over invoice or under msrp pricing with a dealer, be prepaired to see added fee's. Not all dealers are this way, but a lot know the system well and have figured out ways to get extra dollars after they have your heart set and checkbook open. Deal in DriveOut cost and you'll avoid all that fuss.
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Last edited by Davisjl; 07-19-2007 at 02:32 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Raz5219 Raz5219 is offline
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The Documentation fee or as I like to call it "The BS fee" is something that most dealerships charge just to make a little more money on you. A $50 doc fee is a bargain compared to others I've seen....reaching $400 in some cases! The fee is usually electronically printed on the buy or lease contract to make it look offical. The only thing official about it is that it's official crap
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  #19  
Old 07-19-2007, 02:56 PM
Penforhire Penforhire is offline
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Think that is a rip-off for cars? Try real estate. You can get hit with a $350+ doc fee for fifty pages of copying. Now THAT's a rip!
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  #20  
Old 07-19-2007, 02:59 PM
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drwtsn32 drwtsn32 is offline
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Originally Posted by Raz5219 View Post
The Documentation fee or as I like to call it "The BS fee" is something that most dealerships charge just to make a little more money on you.
But is it worth the trouble to try and get them to not charge you? Especially if you have to be willing to walk away from the deal? I guess it is worth it to some, but come on... $50 on a $50K vehicle... that's like 0.1%
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  #21  
Old 07-19-2007, 03:17 PM
Raz5219 Raz5219 is offline
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But is it worth the trouble to try and get them to not charge you? Especially if you have to be willing to walk away from the deal? I guess it is worth it to some, but come on... $50 on a $50K vehicle... that's like 0.1%

Agreed, it's not worth it to try and negotiate out of it. It's just the principle of the thing that I don't like.
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  #22  
Old 07-19-2007, 06:36 PM
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AZ-BMW AZ-BMW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz5219 View Post
The Documentation fee or as I like to call it "The BS fee" is something that most dealerships charge just to make a little more money on you. A $50 doc fee is a bargain compared to others I've seen....reaching $400 in some cases! The fee is usually electronically printed on the buy or lease contract to make it look offical. The only thing official about it is that it's official crap
+1
At my Scottsdale dealership the doc fee is $388. But to make me feel better, my CA told me that even when he buys his personal car there, he must pay the same fee (Yeah, right)
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2007, 10:31 PM
ferrari355fi ferrari355fi is offline
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so you are complaining about $50? Dude, do yourself a favor and have someone fill up your car with gas for you. You might burst a blood vessel...
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  #24  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:00 AM
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Davisjl Davisjl is offline
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so you are complaining about $50? Dude, do yourself a favor and have someone fill up your car with gas for you. You might burst a blood vessel...
I think he's complaining about the way the 50 dollars was added. He negotiated a price and then at the signing was told something different. I agree with him being pissed and personally I'd walk away from the deal since the dealer didn't disclose it before hand.
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  #25  
Old 07-20-2007, 09:22 AM
Galun Galun is offline
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So what if it's $50 on a $50k car and it's 0.1%. That should not be part of the consideration. It's still a BS fee and it's still money that you can save. I love it when sales people say "you are going to break the deal over x?", I turn around and ask them the exact same question, and they have no answer.
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