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  #1  
Old 06-07-2002, 09:15 AM
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Help!!!! Need to con wife into another M (E36 M3 ltw)!!!!!

Here's the scoop: got wind of a 95 E36 M3 lightweight for sale with 3300 miles! I need some opinions on what the true value of the car is. Unfortunately, the car has been modded with Dinan stage 1 supercharger, short shift kit, BBS one piece alloy race wheels (with P Zeros), Alpine radio/CD. The good news is he still has the original parts (including the factory wheels). The car is in a car collector's warehouse and gets started only once a month (ugh!). Questions:

1) What is the true value of the car?
2) Do the mods help / hurt the value?
3) How has sitting in a warehouse adversely affected the working parts of the vehicle
4) How hard would it be to get the engine back into original configuration?

I need to know as much as I can before somehow conning the wife into another M car!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2002, 09:33 AM
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I don't think that I would want the hassle of taking the supercharger off. You have to do other stuff to, like get the software overwritten as well. Dinan makes incredibly high quality equipment, the car is probably very reliable and the mods are extremely high quality

If you want a stock M3 LTW, find one, don't remove the suprcharger, SSK, and BBS wheels (good wheels).
  #3  
Old 06-07-2002, 09:43 AM
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I like the mods also,

but I was thinking about later on down the line. It's a nice option to have to be able to put it back to stock since this guy was nice enough to keep all the original parts and they go with the deal.

Any opinion on the value?
  #4  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:02 AM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Re: Help!!!! Need to con wife into another M (E36 M3 ltw)!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro
Questions:

1) What is the true value of the car?
2) Do the mods help / hurt the value?
3) How has sitting in a warehouse adversely affected the working parts of the vehicle
4) How hard would it be to get the engine back into original configuration?

I need to know as much as I can before somehow conning the wife into another M car!!!!!!!!!!!
1) Most LTWs I've seen are in the high 30s.
2) For a car as rare as a LTW this would hurt the value.
3) Bimmers don't like to sit! While it shouldn't be too bad I'd check for leaks from dried out gaskets.
4) The change back to stock shouldn't be too hard.

We actually have quite a few LTW owners in our club. If you want the email addresses for some of them to get an owners point of view let me know...

Haus
  #5  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:18 AM
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That would be great Haus

If you want to send those to me via PM that would be great. How many do you think are still registered street legal in US?
  #6  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:23 AM
TD
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
I don't think that I would want the hassle of taking the supercharger off. You have to do other stuff to, like get the software overwritten as well. Dinan makes incredibly high quality equipment, the car is probably very reliable and the mods are extremely high quality

If you want a stock M3 LTW, find one, don't remove the suprcharger, SSK, and BBS wheels (good wheels).
That car never should have been modded. Whoever did it was an idiot. Like in_d_haus pointed out, this car is very rare and mods defintiely hurt the value. I'd undo (and sell) the mods too.

I've heard of low-mileage LTWs going for around $40K recently. The mods do HURT the value, but since you will be able to sell them, realistically, the net is break-even on the mods. But if you can use them to negotiate a price break, more power to you.

Lack of use is never good, but cetainly fixable. Look for dry rot on rubber parts (hoses, gaskets, etc). You may need to replace all of the above, inclusing engine gaskets, before you're back to "new", so factor that in. New fluids all around plus new plugs should round out the "inactivity" fix. Then rev it a bunch to clear out any deposits. A bottle of Techron couldn't hurt.

Personally, I'd jump on it if you appreciate what the car is and have the means to purchase it AND perform the necessary repairs/maintenance to get it back in good running condition.
  #7  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:24 AM
TD
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Re: That would be great Haus

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro
If you want to send those to me via PM that would be great. How many do you think are still registered street legal in US?
I remember seeing an online LTW registry once. Do a search. I'm sure you'll find the total originally imported rather quickly. As for still on the road, perhaps you'll turn that up too.

I know one of them autoxes it with us here with the NCC. Good guy. Similarly low mileage.

Last edited by TD; 06-07-2002 at 10:29 AM.
  #8  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TD
A bottle of Techron couldn't hurt.
OFF-TOPIC:

Tom, you have mentioned Techron a few times lately. What is it ? (just curious)

EDIT : Thanks atyclb
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Last edited by Alex Baumann; 06-07-2002 at 10:28 AM.
  #9  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Baumann


OFF-TOPIC:

Tom, you have mentioned Techron a few times lately. What is it ? (just curious)
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...tech_con.shtml
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:31 AM
TD
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Baumann


OFF-TOPIC:

Tom, you have mentioned Techron a few times lately. What is it ? (just curious)

EDIT : Thanks atyclb
As atyclb linked, it's a fuel additive that is used to clean out injector deposits, etc. I'm sure you've got some over there, just different brands/etc.
  #11  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TD


That car never should have been modded. Whoever did it was an idiot. Like in_d_haus pointed out, this car is very rare and mods defintiely hurt the value. I'd undo (and sell) the mods too.

I've heard of low-mileage LTWs going for around $40K recently. The mods do HURT the value, but since you will be able to sell them, realistically, the net is break-even on the mods. But if you can use them to negotiate a price break, more power to you.

Lack of use is never good, but cetainly fixable. Look for dry rot on rubber parts (hoses, gaskets, etc). You may need to replace all of the above, inclusing engine gaskets, before you're back to "new", so factor that in. New fluids all around plus new plugs should round out the "inactivity" fix. Then rev it a bunch to clear out any deposits. A bottle of Techron couldn't hurt.

Personally, I'd jump on it if you appreciate what the car is and have the means to purchase it AND perform the necessary repairs/maintenance to get it back in good running condition.
Point being, if you don't was a S/C car, don't buy one that has been subject to forced induction. Move on.

I don't see anyharm in modifying an M3 LTW. Who knows what the owner's intentions were. Maybe he was going to race it or use it as a track car. Dinan makes high quality stuff, a full Dinan car is EXPENSIVE and could acutally increase the value. Go look at prices, official Dinan cars have high values. I don't know if this translates to LTW cars, but there are people who want S/C lightweights
  #12  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:37 AM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Re: That would be great Haus

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro
If you want to send those to me via PM that would be great. How many do you think are still registered street legal in US?
Only 125 were sold in the US...many are/were snapped up by racers. We have something like 4 or 5 streetworthy in our club (Very Cool) They do track them though.

I'll PM you with one of the most savvy ones.
  #13  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate328Ci
I don't see anyharm in modifying an M3 LTW. Who knows what the owner's intentions were. Maybe he was going to race it or use it as a track car. Dinan makes high quality stuff, a full Dinan car is EXPENSIVE and could acutally increase the value. Go look at prices, official Dinan cars have high values. I don't know if this translates to LTW cars, but there are people who want S/C lightweights
I'm with Tom here. I think his wasn't saying that mods would harm it but rather pointing out to keep the originality of a car which was produced/imported only a few hundred units.

If I ever have the chance to find an E30 EVOIII or something similar (limited edition) I would keep it as nearly stock as possible (as if it left the production line today)
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:45 AM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Instead of the PM I'll post a link to one of the owners websites. Miki is VERY savvy on the E36 M3 LTW. There is a contact link on her page as well as info on her car. Tell her Doug referred ya!

Miki page
  #15  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alex Baumann


I'm with Tom here. I think his wasn't saying that mods would harm it but rather pointing out to keep the originality of a car which was produced/imported only a few hundred units.

If I ever have the chance to find an E30 EVOIII or something similar (limited edition) I would keep it as nearly stock as possible (as if it left the production line today)
I'm NOT saying that I would have done it, but I wouldn't buy a forced induction car and remove the S/C. I would probably keep it stock, but you know many (if not most) M3 LTWs are modified.

I would keep it original and would rather find an original or lightly modified car than convert a DINAN car to stock again.
  #16  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:55 AM
TD
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Originally posted by nate328Ci

...but you know many (if not most) M3 LTWs are modified.
Um, the vast majority of LTWs are stock. No mods beyond rims/tires and upgraded fluids/brake pads/other wear items.
  #17  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:58 AM
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good input, good discussion

I think everyone is making some good points. I would prefer stock myself, but since this car has 3300 miles on it, I thought I'd look into it.

Strange, start modifying a car for the track and then don't take it to the track and put it away like a stock collector's item. Seems like opposing purposes.
  #18  
Old 06-07-2002, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TD


Um, the vast majority of LTWs are stock. No mods beyond rims/tires and upgraded fluids/brake pads/other wear items.
There look like a lot of modified cars in the registry you pointed out? M3 LTWs were made for club racers and track enthisiasts, a lot of them are not stock

"Miki Haraguchi car. This is car number 93 and used to belong to the infamous Michael Lord of E36 M3 Mailing List fame. It features a Jim Conforti chip programmed to work in conjunction with a 10.5 pound flywheel from Turner Motorsport and the Euro HFM, ECIS Cold Air Induction (CAI) with K&N filter, Dinan large-bore throttle body, Active Autowerke cat back exhaust, TC Kline roll bar, Bilstein sport shocks, Eibach sport springs, Z3 short shift kit, M5 transmission mounts, PTG motor mounts. Photo on left by Brian Horne, Roundel photojournalist and shows Michael and PTG driver Johannes Von Overbeek."

A lot of modifications are offered for these cars too. Many are modified.
  #19  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:00 AM
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Re: good input, good discussion

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro
I think everyone is making some good points. I would prefer stock myself, but since this car has 3300 miles on it, I thought I'd look into it.

Strange, start modifying a car for the track and then don't take it to the track and put it away like a stock collector's item. Seems like opposing purposes.
That is strange. Does it have a Dinan suspension too?
  #20  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:37 AM
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FWIW, I saw this car on e-bay some time ago, and remember marveling at the time how weird it was that someone went to all the trouble and expense of modding it only to put less than 3500 miles on it.
  #21  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JST
FWIW, I saw this car on e-bay some time ago, and remember marveling at the time how weird it was that someone went to all the trouble and expense of modding it only to put less than 3500 miles on it.
I wonder if most of those miles were track miles
  #22  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:50 AM
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I'll have to call again and grill him on this baby

Nate - when I talked to him before he made no mention of suspension mods and I think he was trying to tell me everything he did. I don't think he would have left it out.

I've only seen two in person recently. One at Bimmerfest (see gallery) that was stock and one at the LA BMW CCA clean car contest (another post with pics) that had some mods. I don't see anymore on the LA freeways like I used to in the late 90's.

I believe I heard 126 US versions, so between ones converted to full race cars and attrition (cars smacked up at track events!) there should definitely be under 100 street legal in US.
  #23  
Old 06-07-2002, 11:54 AM
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Any way to know for sure?

Quote:
I wonder if most of those miles were track miles
He said no track miles. Let me see, an E36 M3 ltw with an SC and BBS race wheels. I believe him (maybe?).
  #24  
Old 06-07-2002, 12:13 PM
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Re: Any way to know for sure?

Quote:
Originally posted by scottn2retro


He said no track miles. Let me see, an E36 M3 ltw with an SC and BBS race wheels. I believe him (maybe?).
And on its 10th set of brake pads, the tires are smooth on the outer half. Hmmm.....
  #25  
Old 06-10-2002, 01:09 PM
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Okay, here's some more info . . .

I called this morning to work out a way to contact his warehouse manager (must be nice )to work out a time to see the car and asked a few more ?s. He is going to fax me a copy of the window sticker and that should give me a few clues to work with.

He says he bought the car new (13 miles) and the GT rear wing was already on the car at the dealer (since it was in their showroom). He does not have the original small spoiler. He says he DOES have the rest of the GT parts in some other warehouse.

He said his guy once a month starts it and drives it for about 10 mins.

It sounds like he would let the car go if he got offered 40K.
 

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