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  #1  
Old 08-02-2007, 02:54 PM
XJSChris XJSChris is offline
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Exclamation The Ultimate Multiple Security Deposit (MSD) Thread

I wanted to start a thread on Multiple Security Deposits (MSD). There is so much mis-information out there on them and most dealers have no clue on how to calculate them.

I spent the last 38 minutes on the phone with BMWFS with a 2-tier supervisor. Unfortunately, my lease is not in their system yet and I cannot be given or told anything concrete until they have my lease details in front of them.

My ultimate goal is to have a definitive and concrete answer (read: A FAX) from BMWFS stating what their policies are in regard to Multiple Security Deposits.

Here is what I know is the truth...

Facts
Fact 1) Security deposit decrease the money factor by 0.00007

Fact 2) You can have a total of (7) Multiple Security Deposits, for a total money factor discount of 0.00049.

Fact 3) Security deposit is based on the total monthly payment with taxes that will appear in your lease contract.

Steps
Step 1) Determine your total money factor with all Loyalty Discounts and MSD discounts applied.

Step 2) Calculate your total monthly payment with taxes with the money factor from Step 1.

Step 3) Your Security Deposit amount is based on the amount in Step 2) and is round to the nearest $50. So, a total monthly payment with taxes of $303 would equate to a security deposit amount of $350.

Step 4) Determine your total, refundable security deposit amount. You have to pay an initial security deposit and then have to pay the determined number of security deposits used to derive your MSD MF discount.

Example
This example is based on the lease of a 2007 X3 3.0si for 24 months, with 12,000 miles per year (77% residual), a total Adjusted Capitalized Cost of $42,924, 6% sales tax, and 7 Multiple Security Deposits.

Step 1: Determine Total Money Factor
Base MF: 0.00214
Dealer MF Mark-up: 0.00000
Loyalty MF Discount: 0.00000
MSD MF Discount: -0.00049

Total MF: 0.00166

Step 2: Calculate Total Monthly Payment with Taxes
Total Monthly Payment with Taxes: $497.04

Step 3: Calculate Deposit Amount
Security Deposit in this example (total monthly payment with taxes of $497.04) is $500.

Step 4: Calculate Total Security Deposit Amount
Total Amount of Security Deposits: $4,000.. First Security is $500 and then there are - in this example - 7 Deposits @ $500 each: $3,500.. $500 + $3,500 = $4,000

Last edited by XJSChris; 08-02-2007 at 03:03 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2007, 05:26 PM
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Looks good...note that returning BMW Leasees do not have to pay the inital security deposit (BMW waives it without a corresponding increase in MF).
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2007, 03:58 AM
Trey100 Trey100 is offline
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I understand that you are supposed to get those MSD back, but is there a chance now that they are actually holding an additional $4000 of your money that when you return the lease, they will find more things to deduct from your deposits? Basically, if you leave them 1 $600 security deposit, are you less prone to them more than the $600 (because it costs money to chase you down)? I understand if your car is flawless, there is nothing they can do - but my friend just returned his car and even though he cleaned it up, it wasn't flawless. The guy asked for almost all of the $600 (left him something like $200). Still, $400 was not too bad considering the condiiton. Anyone with MSDs get ALL of it back?
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  #4  
Old 08-03-2007, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trey100 View Post
I understand that you are supposed to get those MSD back, but is there a chance now that they are actually holding an additional $4000 of your money that when you return the lease, they will find more things to deduct from your deposits? Basically, if you leave them 1 $600 security deposit, are you less prone to them more than the $600 (because it costs money to chase you down)? I understand if your car is flawless, there is nothing they can do - but my friend just returned his car and even though he cleaned it up, it wasn't flawless. The guy asked for almost all of the $600 (left him something like $200). Still, $400 was not too bad considering the condiiton. Anyone with MSDs get ALL of it back?
They take out excess wear and tear from the amount of all your SD's. There is a 350 disposition fee as well if you don't roll into another bmw lease.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2007, 05:35 AM
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NVM, done the search and found out all the info about OLP.

thanks!

Last edited by j0n; 08-03-2007 at 05:51 AM.
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2007, 08:34 PM
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AgsWin AgsWin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
They take out excess wear and tear from the amount of all your SD's. There is a 350 disposition fee as well if you don't roll into another bmw lease.
However, if you sell your car to a private party for the payoff, all your MSD's will be mailed to you correct?
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2007, 06:56 AM
Trey100 Trey100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
They take out excess wear and tear from the amount of all your SD's. There is a 350 disposition fee as well if you don't roll into another bmw lease.
I was just wondering if BMW is more prone to take more money from your SD's since they are holding $4,000 of your money. In other words, be more picky because they know they can easily take more out of the pot of money you gave them. Things that they might overlook if you only handed them 1 security deposit ($600 or so). It's obviously harder to ask you to cough up more money than it is to just take it from the up front money you handed them.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2007, 10:30 AM
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What makes it harder? You get a final statement in the mail no matter what your end balance is.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2007, 10:42 AM
philippek philippek is offline
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So XJSChris, did you get your money back? And did you have to recontract?
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2007, 12:02 PM
XJSChris XJSChris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
So XJSChris, did you get your money back? And did you have to recontract?
I'll let you know on Monday. I spoke to my sales guy on Friday and asked that he call the Retail Communications Center at BMWFS to confirm the amount.

I'll get the money back if the amount was incorrect. I don't know what'll happen in regard to the contract (i.e., if I'll have to go there and re-write it., etc.)

I honestly don't blame my sales guy.. I asked him about it when I closed the paperwork last weekend and he, in turn, asked the finance person who told him it was the correct amout.

Either way, I rated him a "5" on all counts when BMW called my house yesterday.

That's the thing that sucks.. The sales guy could kick butt, but has to take all of the heat if someone else (finance department, detail department, et al.) messes up.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:05 PM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJSChris View Post
Either way, I rated him a "5" on all counts when BMW called my house yesterday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJSChris View Post
That's the thing that sucks.. The sales guy could kick butt, but has to take all of the heat if someone else (finance department, detail department, et al.) messes up.
Don't even get me started on that...
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2007, 04:28 PM
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mclaren mclaren is offline
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Step 3) Your Security Deposit amount is based on the amount in Step 2) and is round to the nearest $50. So, a total monthly payment with taxes of $303 would equate to a security deposit amount of $350.

In a case like this figure out a small cap reduction to get the payment down to $300.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2007, 07:16 PM
XJSChris XJSChris is offline
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In a case like this figure out a small cap reduction to get the payment down to $300.
that's an excellent strategy.. schley recommended this as well.
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  #14  
Old 08-07-2007, 02:37 PM
XJSChris XJSChris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek View Post
So XJSChris, did you get your money back? And did you have to recontract?
Too funny..

Earlier today, I spoke with the sales manager of the dealership where I leased my X3. At first, he told me that he's always based the security deposit on the payment before discounts

I asked him to call BMWFS RCC (retail communications center) to verify this information because I asked other people I know and was told different. He agreed to verify because he couldn't find the exact details in his dealer handbook.

Well... I just got off the phone with him and he told me that BMWFS did in fact change the security deposit program, but "they [BMWFS] never sent out a bulletin or anything informing us." Sorry, buy my bullsh*t flag is flying high with this one, especially from a dealership with large inventory turnover.

Now, in order to get the money back, the Mrs. and I have to drive back to the dealership and re-contract

It took me several calls to get this situation fixed. It's only $400, but that's not the point. It's the principle: 1) I raised the question a couple of times to two different people while executing the paperwork and was told the wrong information, 2) I did the foot-work to find out the correct information, and 3) now I am the one who has to go out of my way to get my money back.

I don't want to be a complete prick, but I feel like they should compensate me somehow for this obvious error.

Suggestions??

Last edited by XJSChris; 08-07-2007 at 02:45 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2007, 08:24 PM
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schley schley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJSChris View Post
Too funny..

Earlier today, I spoke with the sales manager of the dealership where I leased my X3. At first, he told me that he's always based the security deposit on the payment before discounts

I asked him to call BMWFS RCC (retail communications center) to verify this information because I asked other people I know and was told different. He agreed to verify because he couldn't find the exact details in his dealer handbook.

Well... I just got off the phone with him and he told me that BMWFS did in fact change the security deposit program, but "they [BMWFS] never sent out a bulletin or anything informing us." Sorry, buy my bullsh*t flag is flying high with this one, especially from a dealership with large inventory turnover.

Now, in order to get the money back, the Mrs. and I have to drive back to the dealership and re-contract

It took me several calls to get this situation fixed. It's only $400, but that's not the point. It's the principle: 1) I raised the question a couple of times to two different people while executing the paperwork and was told the wrong information, 2) I did the foot-work to find out the correct information, and 3) now I am the one who has to go out of my way to get my money back.

I don't want to be a complete prick, but I feel like they should compensate me somehow for this obvious error.

Suggestions??
#1 I think the sales manager is either incompetent or dishonest and you want to be involved with neither. This error really doesn't help the dealer in any way as I see it for it is simply 400 more dollars you are giving bmwfs for the lease term. I'm sure even if one of our board sponsors knows a way this would benefit the dealer they wouldn't want to reveal the complicated incentive that maybe in place. But I find it hard to believe the dealer "didn't know or wasn't given a bulletin". This policy has been in place for over a year that I personally am aware of and probably for much longer.

#2 I wouldn't count on the dealer giving you anything for this IMO. He has alleviated the blame from himself by blaming bmwfs not notifying the dealer so in his mind there is no way you can prove otherwise. BMWFS will simply say finance decisions vary by dealership ect ect. I don't see you being able to place blame on the dealer in a way that will get you something in return.

Now what you should do is rework your lease terms to what is best for you, either using a small cap cost reduction or playing with your residual to get under the next lowest 50 increment. Let us know what happens.
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  #16  
Old 08-08-2007, 06:38 AM
XJSChris XJSChris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
#1 I think the sales manager is either incompetent or dishonest and you want to be involved with neither.
I think it's a bit of both: incompetence & dishonesty

Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
This error really doesn't help the dealer in any way as I see it for it is simply 400 more dollars you are giving bmwfs for the lease term.
Exactly.. That's what's strange about the entire situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
But I find it hard to believe the dealer "didn't know or wasn't given a bulletin". This policy has been in place for over a year that I personally am aware of and probably for much longer.
I threw my bullsh*t flag immidiately when I heard him say this. The sales manager is the guy, it's his job to know this stuff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
#2 I wouldn't count on the dealer giving you anything for this IMO. He has alleviated the blame from himself by blaming bmwfs not notifying the dealer so in his mind there is no way you can prove otherwise.
He may not have a choice.. read on..

Quote:
Originally Posted by schley View Post
BMWFS will simply say finance decisions vary by dealership ect ect.
As fate would have it, a BMWFS representative called me last night to confirm my lease details and to congratulate me for the lease. I asked about the MSD and was told it was, in fact, calculated incorrectly.

I explained the entire situation, include the sales manager's excuse of he didn't know or wasn't told about the MSD program.

The BMWFS rep was shocked, to say the least. The rep informed me that BMWFS has regional sales and marketing people who travel to the dealerships in their area - on a regular basis - to conduct training and to disseminate new program details, etc.

The rep took down my work and mobile numbers and is going to put me in touch with the BMWFS Sales and Marketing person who handles my region so I can speak with them directly.

I'm not going to call back the dealership until I speak with the BMWFS regional rep.

I'll keep everyone posted..
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XJSChris View Post
I think it's a bit of both: incompetence & dishonesty



Exactly.. That's what's strange about the entire situation.



I threw my bullsh*t flag immidiately when I heard him say this. The sales manager is the guy, it's his job to know this stuff...



He may not have a choice.. read on..



As fate would have it, a BMWFS representative called me last night to confirm my lease details and to congratulate me for the lease. I asked about the MSD and was told it was, in fact, calculated incorrectly.

I explained the entire situation, include the sales manager's excuse of he didn't know or wasn't told about the MSD program.

The BMWFS rep was shocked, to say the least. The rep informed me that BMWFS has regional sales and marketing people who travel to the dealerships in their area - on a regular basis - to conduct training and to disseminate new program details, etc.

The rep took down my work and mobile numbers and is going to put me in touch with the BMWFS Sales and Marketing person who handles my region so I can speak with them directly.

I'm not going to call back the dealership until I speak with the BMWFS regional rep.

I'll keep everyone posted..
wow I'm surprised bmwfs contacted you. Let us know.
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2007, 07:18 AM
XJSChris XJSChris is offline
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wow I'm surprised bmwfs contacted you.
I was under the impression that BMWFS contacted every new lessee to "thank them" and confirm details?
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2007, 08:56 PM
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I was under the impression that BMWFS contacted every new lessee to "thank them" and confirm details?
uhhhhhhh no.
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2007, 07:25 AM
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For our past leases we never received a call.

But for our lease this past May we received a call a few weeks after we signed. They confirmed details and actually cleared up a billing issue. Very helpful I might add.

Maybe its something new.
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  #21  
Old 08-09-2007, 08:18 AM
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Not sure about everyone but I did receive a call about my new lease. They first called while I was still traveling for European Delivery and then again this week after I returned. They verified the details and also checked to see if I wanted to be setup for paperless statements.
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  #22  
Old 08-19-2007, 11:20 PM
ilhooq ilhooq is offline
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Here's an "applied theory" kinda MSD question for you all...

IF the (weekend) Sales Mgr at a dealership here in Southern CA did the following today on an '08 528i...

Started with a buy rate of MF .000225 and...
THEN put in an adder of .00015 because there's no Owner Loyalty or any other MF discounts besides MSD in this deal... (i.e. that's the minimal "zero down" adder they're accustomed to applying to all MFs)
THEN said the first MSD got rid of part of the adder and the add'l 6 MSDs got the MF down to .000183, instead of the number I got, which was .000225 - .000049 = .000176.

If he did that then he's blowing smoke, right?

The deal is done and the car's in the driveway, but I just want to have all my facts straight when they call for CSI scores.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crying over spilled milk here. But if the deal was done wrong or worse yet done intentionally "wrong" to net the extra $700 or so for the dealer, that would be somewhat unpleasant. I did have to make multiple corrections to the first deal presented to us, so I'm perfectly willing to believe that he's made a mistake.

It just seems to me that his info might just be wrong, and that he was misinformed about applying MSDs. If I'm reading it right, the new/correct MSD rule is: first deposit of a month's payment at the reduced buy rate, plus up to 7 additional deposits, and each of the 7 after the first reduces by .00007. Right?

All the above having been said, the rest of the financial terms were as I expected. Some parts of the overall experience could have more professional, but the GM did get the car built, on a boat, out of VPC and delivered in exactly seven weeks. However, the car was a sold order (obvs.) and, other than detailing it, there was only very standard effort applied on the part of the dealer to sell this car, so we weren't especially motivated to provide them with anything beyond a very fair profit on the car.

Your thoughts?

Any dealer sponsors who'd be willing to chime in here?

I'd be very obliged, esp. as we have another 5er order coming up on the near horizon and I'd like to be sure that these folks are worthy of repeat business.
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  #23  
Old 09-21-2009, 03:43 AM
keltraine keltraine is offline
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Well I'm sure you figured it out, but for anyone else that's checking this thread (since it's referenced multiple times), I'm pretty confident in saying that you do a SD (plain/regular security deposit) which gets rid of the .00015 adder, and then you should still be able to do the 7 MSDs after that to reduce your rate down. Anyone official want to chime in/confirm, or someone with links to such info?
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  #24  
Old 09-21-2009, 06:45 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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It depends on the dealer. One way some dealers resort to competition on sell price is to add a mark-up to the money factor they get from BMW FS. That sounds like what your dealer has done. 10 basis points added to the money factor can easily add up to around $500 to $800 on the deal.

Last edited by anE934fun; 09-21-2009 at 06:48 AM.
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  #25  
Old 09-21-2009, 06:52 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Well I'm sure you figured it out, but for anyone else that's checking this thread (since it's referenced multiple times), I'm pretty confident in saying that you do a SD (plain/regular security deposit) which gets rid of the .00015 adder, and then you should still be able to do the 7 MSDs after that to reduce your rate down. Anyone official want to chime in/confirm, or someone with links to such info?
Someone has mis-informed you. There is a maximum of 7 ecurity deposits you can put into the lease for a maximum money factor reduction of 0.00049. See Fact #2 of the OPs 1st post.
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