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  #101  
Old 08-28-2007, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3 Skier View Post
Speaking of Perception, just signing a letter as "Mr. X3 Skier, Esq" has gotten some very prompt and satisfactory responses in some of my minor disputes back in the day.

Cheers

I try not to provide absolute opinions. However, I would never use Esquire after my name if I was not a lawyer. In the US it is generally accepted that those who use Esquire after their name are lawyers. What happens if the dealer calls the sender and asks if they are in fact a lawyer? What would be the response? No! Then you look like you were trying to intimidate the Dealership and you may lose respectability. Yes! You may be committing a crime (State law applies) if you are in fact not a lawyer. Telling or implying someone in a local bar that you are a lawyer is far different than implying or telling someone in a business setting that you are a lawyer. By adding Esquire to your name in this situation the courts in your state may determine that you were attempting to practice law.

It is often said that you can always become a SOB after being a nice person; you can never be a nice person after being a SOB!

Explain your reasonable demands and if they are not met explain how you will utilize the legal system and any local TV consumer protection program. I would believe that the local new reporter asking questions of how a dealership lost a car would be much more damaging than any lawyer.

This is just my “non-opinion” opinion.
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  #102  
Old 08-28-2007, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RDobie View Post
By adding Esquire to your name in this situation the courts in your state may determine that you were attempting to practice law.
The title "Esquire" is un-regulated and valid for anyone to use. It is what knights' understudies were called in England. Some lawyers may use it because it sounds impressive, and some lawyers need help justifying their hourly rates.
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  #103  
Old 08-28-2007, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_ee View Post
The title "Esquire" is un-regulated and valid for anyone to use. It is what knights' understudies were called in England. Some lawyers may use it because it sounds impressive, and some lawyers need help justifying their hourly rates.

By limiting my comment you are taking my words out of context. The entire thought is “(w)hat happens if the dealer calls the sender and asks if they are in fact a lawyer? What would be the response? No! Then you look like you were trying to intimidate the Dealership and you may lose respectability. Yes! You may be committing a crime (State law applies) if you are in fact not a lawyer. Telling or implying someone in a local bar that you are a lawyer is far different than implying or telling someone in a business setting that you are a lawyer. By adding Esquire to your name in this situation the courts in your state may determine that you were attempting to practice law.”

However, it is dependant to State Law. Please refer to Black’s Law Dictionary (5th Edition) on page 489. It states, “In United States, title commonly appended after name of attorney; e.g. John J. Jones, Esquire.” It is generally accepted in the United States that the use of “esquire” after a name means that the person is licensed to practice law in at least one State Jurisdiction.

I am not stating definitely that the use of Esquire alone would constitute a violation; I am stating that you may be risking your credibility and reputation. Then if you state that you are a lawyer, in this situation, you may be putting yourself at risk.

If I received a written document without a legal firm’s letterhead signed “esquire,” I would ask if the person was an attorney-at-law and if they were omitted to practice law in this jurisdiction.

The latest in North Carolina is George Robotis who is now serving two year for impersonating a lawyer.
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  #104  
Old 08-28-2007, 03:27 PM
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I think a better way to go about this if you really want to "send a message" is to sign your letter normally and indicate cc: to a real law firm. You won't be quite so easily found out that way.

But I'd question the utility of such games. This isn't a dilemma between being a pushover and an asshole--one can be perfectly calm and reasonable while still bringing maximum leverage to bear (police report, lawyers, going up the BMW chain of command). The whole 'walk softly w/ big stick' thing, in other words.
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  #105  
Old 08-28-2007, 03:39 PM
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Jeez, I come back from vacation and the first ED thread I read is this one. I am feeling so sorry for Craigito, I hope that this matter is resolved satisfactorily.

I too feel that he should retain a lawyer to help him in his dealings with the dealership. It has been my experience that when one gets a lawyer involved, the other party recognizes the seriousness of the situation.

Can you also try to get your local TV stations to get involved in this matter and help put pressure on the dealership? When I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area, the local ABC station had a program called "7 On Your Side" that helped consumers in their battles with companies.

CarSwami
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  #106  
Old 08-28-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_ee View Post
The title "Esquire" is un-regulated and valid for anyone to use. It is what knights' understudies were called in England. Some lawyers may use it because it sounds impressive, and some lawyers need help justifying their hourly rates.
Also, customarily one does not sign one's name with an esquire. Rather, it is a mode of address, and is used in addressing another lawyer.

That all said, holding yourself out as a lawyer when it's not to represent someone is not the same as holding yourself out as a lawyer to represent them. This is the former.

finally, this situation really sucks primarily because the stealer seems not to be stepping up. That's the real problem--all the lawyering and legal advice here isn't going to change much. The question is how best to exert pressure on them. I would use BMWNA as much as possible to move it forward from the "car is lost" to "the car needs to be replaced" as quickly as you can.
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  #107  
Old 08-28-2007, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanning machine View Post
That all said, holding yourself out as a lawyer when it's not to represent someone is not the same as holding yourself out as a lawyer to represent them. .
You might want to read the appeal of STATE OF KANSAS, Appellee, v. GREGORY J. MARINO, Appellant. As stated it is a state determination.
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  #108  
Old 08-28-2007, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanning machine View Post
Also, customarily one does not sign one's name with an esquire. Rather, it is a mode of address, and is used in addressing another lawyer.

That all said, holding yourself out as a lawyer when it's not to represent someone is not the same as holding yourself out as a lawyer to represent them. This is the former.

finally, this situation really sucks primarily because the stealer seems not to be stepping up. That's the real problem--all the lawyering and legal advice here isn't going to change much. The question is how best to exert pressure on them. I would use BMWNA as much as possible to move it forward from the "car is lost" to "the car needs to be replaced" as quickly as you can.
BMWNA said to call them if the dealership puts up any resistance and they can intervene. I think they've got my back but time will tell. Just waiting to hear back from the dealer right now. I sent out my demand letter if you will this morning.

And the best part, I got rear-ended today on the way into work. So if anybody wants to kick me in the nuts, it seems like this is the week to pile on. A friend of mine said...well..at least they didn't smash into your new Bimmer. Touche.
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  #109  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:08 PM
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Maybe this is why you didn't get your car, you would have been rear ended driving it. Good luck to you. This is a bummer but hopefully your dealer will make it right.
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  #110  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Craigito View Post
BMWNA said to call them if the dealership puts up any resistance and they can intervene. I think they've got my back but time will tell. Just waiting to hear back from the dealer right now. I sent out my demand letter if you will this morning.

And the best part, I got rear-ended today on the way into work. So if anybody wants to kick me in the nuts, it seems like this is the week to pile on. A friend of mine said...well..at least they didn't smash into your new Bimmer. Touche.

1) Hey man.... you gotta get yourself a Feng-Shui Master to check out your dwelling pal!! You got some serious Sha-Chi (Bad-Chi) going on dude... How are you feeling ?? How is your health?? Your job??!! Dude!! seriouly!! There's gotta be some Sha-Chi going on dude...

2) Is the other party insured??!!

You'll be alright ... CT, look at the bright side... it could have been your new bimmer being rear-ended. Know what I mean...

It'll only get better from here!!

Cheers,

beewang
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  #111  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Craigito View Post
So if anybody wants to kick me in the nuts, it seems like this is the week to pile on.
Maybe you could volunteer for the next Jackass movie! Seriously, good luck with everything. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be.

Erik
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  #112  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RDobie View Post
I try not to provide absolute opinions. However, I would never use Esquire after my name if I was not a lawyer. In the US it is generally accepted that those who use Esquire after their name are lawyers. What happens if the dealer calls the sender and asks if they are in fact a lawyer? What would be the response? No! Then you look like you were trying to intimidate the Dealership and you may lose respectability. Yes! You may be committing a crime (State law applies) if you are in fact not a lawyer. Telling or implying someone in a local bar that you are a lawyer is far different than implying or telling someone in a business setting that you are a lawyer. By adding Esquire to your name in this situation the courts in your state may determine that you were attempting to practice law.

It is often said that you can always become a SOB after being a nice person; you can never be a nice person after being a SOB!

Explain your reasonable demands and if they are not met explain how you will utilize the legal system and any local TV consumer protection program. I would believe that the local new reporter asking questions of how a dealership lost a car would be much more damaging than any lawyer.

This is just my “non-opinion” opinion.
Kind of like when a PhD insists on being called "doctor" socially
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  #113  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by beewang View Post
1) Hey man.... you gotta get yourself a Feng-Shui Master to check out your dwelling pal!! You got some serious Sha-Chi (Bad-Chi) going on dude... How are you feeling ?? How is your health?? Your job??!! Dude!! seriouly!! There's gotta be some Sha-Chi going on dude...

2) Is the other party insured??!!

You'll be alright ... CT, look at the bright side... it could have been your new bimmer being rear-ended. Know what I mean...

It'll only get better from here!!

Cheers,

beewang
You crack me up. Yeah, she was insured (at least she had the paperwork showing she was). Actually, I quit my job about 2 weeks ago and my boss was extremely pissed. I think he's got a voodoo doll or something. I'm really trying to stay positive. Luckily I didn't get hit hard enough that I had to get towed or something.

I'm sure it will all work out in the end, it's just gonna take time. At least i've got a good story to tell . I'm really interested in the dealerships initial response to my letter. That will pretty much set the tone for this endeavour. I'll know right away if I need to call in the big guns.
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  #114  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RDobie View Post
By limiting my comment you are taking my words out of context. The entire thought is “(w)hat happens if the dealer calls the sender and asks if they are in fact a lawyer? What would be the response? No! Then you look like you were trying to intimidate the Dealership and you may lose respectability. Yes! You may be committing a crime (State law applies) if you are in fact not a lawyer. Telling or implying someone in a local bar that you are a lawyer is far different than implying or telling someone in a business setting that you are a lawyer. By adding Esquire to your name in this situation the courts in your state may determine that you were attempting to practice law.”

However, it is dependant to State Law. Please refer to Black’s Law Dictionary (5th Edition) on page 489. It states, “In United States, title commonly appended after name of attorney; e.g. John J. Jones, Esquire.” It is generally accepted in the United States that the use of “esquire” after a name means that the person is licensed to practice law in at least one State Jurisdiction.

I am not stating definitely that the use of Esquire alone would constitute a violation; I am stating that you may be risking your credibility and reputation. Then if you state that you are a lawyer, in this situation, you may be putting yourself at risk.

If I received a written document without a legal firm’s letterhead signed “esquire,” I would ask if the person was an attorney-at-law and if they were omitted to practice law in this jurisdiction.

You points are spot on and based on the law although I would ask if they were admitted to practice law or omitted from practicing law in a particular jurisdiction
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  #115  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:45 PM
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You crack me up. ...Actually, I quit my job about .....
Humm.... Lost your job aye... Yeah... I am SURE you quit..

Brother its no VooDoo Doll... If you are not gonna pay for a Feng-Shui Master, at least get one of these baby.. Bagua Mirror. Get the concave one!! so you can deflect all the bad stuff out to your neghibor living accross the street from ya!!

http://www.luckycat.com/fengshui/page27.htm
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  #116  
Old 08-28-2007, 07:51 PM
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Humm.... Lost your job aye... Yeah... I am SURE you quit..

Brother its no VooDoo Doll... If you are not gonna pay for a Feng-Shui Master, at least get one of these baby.. Bagua Mirror. Get the concave one!! so you can deflect all the bad stuff out to your neghibor living accross the street from ya!!

http://www.luckycat.com/fengshui/page27.htm
I think the neighbor got the mirror first and it's pointing at Craigito.
Good luck CT.
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  #117  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:09 PM
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Kind of like when a PhD insists on being called "doctor" socially
As a Post Hole Digger myself, I'll add that any Ph.D., or MD for that matter, that insists on being called "doctor" socially probably isn't very social anyway.
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  #118  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:18 PM
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Starting tomorrow!!! I am gonna make EVERYONE to refer me as "Master"


...for my advance degree . GD it!!
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  #119  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:31 PM
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Starting tomorrow!!! I am gonna make EVERYONE to refer me as "Master"
In Vienna, that would work. Anyone with a master´s degree would be Herr Magister.
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  #120  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:32 PM
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Yes Master.

Kind of reminds me ofa certain movie: werewolf...therewolf.
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  #121  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:33 PM
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As a Post Hole Digger myself, I'll add that any Ph.D., or MD for that matter, that insists on being called "doctor" socially probably isn't very social anyway.
In Austria and to a lesser extent in Germany, titles (academic) are very important and are used socially as well.

Someone with two doctorates would receive a letter addressed to Herrn Dr. Dr. so-und-so. If you are also a Professor, it would be to Herrn Prof. Dr. Dr. so-und-so.

Someone with a juris doctor would also be addressed as Herr Dr.
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  #122  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JSpira View Post
In Austria and to a lesser extent in Germany, titles (academic) are very important and are used socially as well.

Someone with two doctorates would receive a letter addressed to Herrn Dr. Dr. so-und-so. If you are also a Professor, it would be to Herrn Prof. Dr. Dr. so-und-so.

Someone with a juris doctor would also be addressed as Herr Dr.
GREAT!! More worthless info that I didn't need to know

Man!! I am gonna miss this thread after CT get his car back and have this thing resolved no more kick'n in knatz, ruined your neighbors carma, manwolf , dracula and the master of universe discussion

Last edited by beewang; 08-28-2007 at 09:41 PM.
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  #123  
Old 08-28-2007, 09:41 PM
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Kind of like when a PhD insists on being called "doctor" socially
Hey, always thought PhD meant Pizza Hut Delivery... hmmm, pizza doctor.
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  #124  
Old 08-28-2007, 10:28 PM
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GREAT!! More worthless info that I didn't need to know

Man!! I am gonna miss this thread after CT get his car back and have this thing resolved no more kick'n in knatz, ruined your neighbors carma, manwolf , dracula and the master of universe discussion
Word..I'm only letting you guys hijack the thread cause if feels like I got all you guys rooting for me

As for the feng-shui (sp?) mirror, the only thing on the wall in my living room is an
Audi R8 Lemans Prototype panorama photo. I'm a big "car guy" as you can tell. I'm going with the motorsports motif. Don't think it matches. I'm seriously gonna check out my neighbor. I better not see one of those mirrors or i'll burn that mother down

I got an email back from the GM and he said he'll be contacting me tomorrow so hope it goes smoothly. I can't believe how many views this thread has. Not exactly the way I wanted to get famous

You'll know something when I know something. Gonna finish watching the Angels come back big against the Mariners now.
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  #125  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:11 AM
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joe321mrk joe321mrk is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: PA
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 184
Mein Auto: 328I
Good news about the GM getting back to you. Yes, we are all behind you!
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