07 650i Convertible Top Unlocked Alarm Problem

I run an engineering firm, and one of the things I always stess is "An engineer is not qualified on his technology, until he knows how NOT to use his technology."

In the case of the convertible top lock alarm on the 07 650i, this is a case of runaway technology application - just because. Application without a rational and ethical review of its contingencies/downsides. That is NOT engineering.

I am constantly having the car alarm tell me that the car roof is unlocked and binging at me as I drive down the road with the top perfectly in place. But, what it also does is assumes I must be some idiot, and locks out the windows so I drive around in the rain with them all down, or locks the top in the open position so I am driving around in the rain with it down, locks up the trunk so I cannot get into it and here's the best part......

It keeps the alarm condition for a solid half hour!!!!!!!! Whooopeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!! That way I can enjoy being parked under bridge overhangs in rainstorms for a half hour while the false alarm resets.....

The tire pressure alarm constantly goes off, even though my tires are all to spec, the "Headlamp" "Licenseplate" Lamp alarm lights are always going off.....

I took it into the dealership and they could find nothing wrong, and the problem is intermittent (like only happens in the rain or when I am at the airport 50 miles from home, etc).

What the heck do I do? Has anyone else had this problem?

TStranger

Also,

Now that I have calmed down. hehe.....I am new to the BF site and Hello

Dropped my car off at the dealership today and drove as fast as I could through intermittent thundershowers to ensure that I did not get soaked on the way there. I was able to dodge the clouds and the dealership put the car inside the reception garage.....WHEW!!!!!!!!!

I'll update the list as soon as I know what the problem is with the sensors/control cards/electronics with regard to the top...and all related malfuntionry. But this time, I am not taking the car back with a "top is working" or "aligned switch" resolution.... from the mechanics.

Walked back into the dealership repair center today, and they are still not able to replicate the top open alarm fault, but they did acknowledge that there are SEVEN sensors in the top, any one of which could be out of alignment and be causing the fault to occur.

They cannot isolate which one is errant as all of the sensors feed to only one single fault indicator in the logs. So, we have to put the top UP and Down UP and Down UP and Down, unitl the fault recurrs, and then do that for each of the 7 alarm detect points to see which one is the errant signal.

This will take the remainder of the week or possibly into next.

I also asked if they could just DISABLE the seven sensors and let me make the judgement as to whether or not the convertible top was up or down, but they said that would void the service contract I paid for, and the warranty.

So, didn't hear from them today on the Top Unlock Detect Fault. I guess at some point here, given that this is the fourth time I have brought the car in to get this fixed, I am going got have to ask for a new top, or a new car. The problem with a pre-paid service plan, is that the service group is now motivated to fix the car in the most inexpensive way possible. And given that I bill 2,000 to 6,000 a day for my services, I am the loooser on this prepaid maintenance and warrantee plan so far, repeatedly taking off work and billable time to chase this issue on behalf of BMW.

If you can't roll the windows up or down, can't close or open the top, have to constantly stop to hide under roof while it rains, can't get out of card scan parking lots...then, the car is essentially useless; regardless of whether or not they can get the fault to recur in the shop.

I think I have been incredibly patient, and have not even asked for a rental car on this repair which may stem into 10 days because BMW has not fully documented the repair SOP for this series car.

What would the experienced persons here do?

Well, I got the call tonight.

They finally found the faulty sensor, and replaced it. It took from Saturday until Thursday, but I guarantee it will be worth it.

I do love my 650i, but really, I can tell when the top is up or down - and don't need 7 sensors to detect when something is wrong, and lock out all my movement based electronics....

I suspect that I will not be the last person to face this problem, nor the complication induced by interlinking sensors to all feed one single fault condition, and not having an SOP for top repairs.

Looking forward to tomorrow though!!!!

I am glad that you got your issue resolved.

Hey Thanks RDobie!

Fault Code A6A4 - "Top not fully closed and roadspeed detected with top not locked"

Here is a summary of what was done. (This one had to be assessed and corrected by the Shop Foreman):

1. The service center replaced the Tensioning Bar Angle Sensor (FP Number 54-34-8-268-997 Sensor), but in addition,

2. they made modifications to the bracket which the sensor detects in order to ensure proper readings to the sensor.

The problem I had experienced was intermittent so I think that the second step was wise in this case, as the original sensor could have been fine; but there was no way to tell.

Thankfully the logs showed a clear record of Fault code A6A4. So they believed me that the fault was occurring, even though we could not get it to recurr after I brought it into the shop.

TStranger

Originally Posted by TStranger27

Well, I got the call tonight.
They finally found the faulty sensor, and replaced it. It took from Saturday until Thursday, but I guarantee it will be worth it.

Well, unfortunately I must give an update to this convertible top issue. Back in August 08, I thought that I had this fixed, but it recurred again in Nov 08 while I was due to travel to India, so I left the car with the dealership for 20 days and said "Please please please please please, please FIX THIS TOP OPEN ALARM FAULT.

Unfortunately the fix did not work, as it recurred again in NOV 08 and the only reason it did not recur until now, was because I did not use the top during the winter as much, so last week it started AGAIN

I took the car into the dealer ship and said "This is the 10th time I have brought this car in to have this top sensor repaired." The tech had a record of them.

I walked over and asked the sales person if they would just give me another car, at this point. I cannot believe I have been this tolerant of losing access to my top and losing access to my car 3 and 4 times per year for a couple days on end, missing work and getting rained on, having all the electronics locked out.

And I have not complained apparently enough. I should have asked for a new car flat out from the beginning.

I wanted to buy the car, but unfortunately have no faith that this 650i top design can ever be fixed.

So I went in today to see if I could get let out of my lease. I have to travel heavily this summer and I just cannot affort to blow $3,000 billing days sitting in the dealer ship attempting to have this top fixed for the 11th 12th 13th 14th time.

If the dealership does not offer to forgive my remaining payments, then I will unfortunately go to another car.

A very tiring, frustrating and over-engineered experience.

I give up...

T -

The sensors are very sensitive to the temperature (and you *do* live in HOTlanta...). I've taken mine in 3 times (and have a really good SA that actually tries to fix my issues) and had it adjusted each time. My dealer even left it out in the sun on purpose to get those sensors nice and baked and even after adjusting them in that environment, it still happens every once in a while. You should expect that it's going to happen again. (mine did twice within the last 2 weeks). I usually partially open the top (to where the top is about to move back to the boot and then stop) and then reclose the top.

We're with you all the way on this one, frustration and all.

I have the same problem. Service center has changed 3 sensors, adjusted the braket, and let it sit in the sun, and run through car wash to get it wet. It hasn't happened this week, but I don't trust it!

I think it's the price we pay for beauty and performance! (truthfully, they should be able to fix it - I didn't have the issue in my 3er verts...)

Originally Posted by TStranger27

Well, unfortunately I must give an update to this convertible top issue. Back in August 08, I thought that I had this fixed, but it recurred again in Nov 08 while I was due to travel to India, so I left the car with the dealership for 20 days and said "Please please please please please, please FIX THIS TOP OPEN ALARM FAULT.

Unfortunately the fix did not work, as it recurred again in NOV 08 and the only reason it did not recur until now, was because I did not use the top during the winter as much, so last week it started AGAIN

I took the car into the dealer ship and said "This is the 10th time I have brought this car in to have this top sensor repaired." The tech had a record of them.

I walked over and asked the sales person if they would just give me another car, at this point. I cannot believe I have been this tolerant of losing access to my top and losing access to my car 3 and 4 times per year for a couple days on end, missing work and getting rained on, having all the electronics locked out.

And I have not complained apparently enough. I should have asked for a new car flat out from the beginning.

I wanted to buy the car, but unfortunately have no faith that this 650i top design can ever be fixed.

So I went in today to see if I could get let out of my lease. I have to travel heavily this summer and I just cannot affort to blow $3,000 billing days sitting in the dealer ship attempting to have this top fixed for the 11th 12th 13th 14th time.

If the dealership does not offer to forgive my remaining payments, then I will unfortunately go to another car.

A very tiring, frustrating and over-engineered experience.

I give up...

I am with BMW of North America, LLC. I've passed this message on to a BMW NA Customer Relations Representative who will be in touch with you soon.

Originally Posted by vatkens

I am with BMW of North America, LLC. I've passed this message on to a BMW NA Customer Relations Representative who will be in touch with you soon.

T - if/when they contact you, please post your experience. I always wonder if BMWNA does contact someone from a posting in the forums.

I'm having this problem for the very first time!!

After reading another thread here, I am letting 45mins pass before trying to close the windows again. I don't want to take it out and let it get rained in/on.

I am going to make an appointment with BMW tomorrow and HOPEFULLY they give me a decent replacement for however long this is going to take to fix... ugh.

Jit (and everyone else checking this thread), I'm having the same issues as well. I am very confident in my dealership's SA as she has gone out of her way to accommodate me. Nevertheless, I have brought my '05 645ci (bought CPO May 2009, 33,200 miles at purchase) to the dealer three times in the past two weeks for top related problems. Here's my story:

I live in Central Florida. I test drove the car and noticed some issues with certain components (driver's side window motor, iDrive pixel issue, nothing serious), but I buy it anyway... my dealer has a good reputation in the area for fixing problems, plus the car is a CPO (and it's priced perfectly. ) I had these items taken care of by the competent folks at my service center - they replaced the driver's window motor and gave me a brand new iDrive system - one similar to what you would find in the 650s today (not the newest one though - that would have been sweet).

I was driving one night with the top down and it began to rain. The top mechanism would close about 9/10's of the way and then halt; I would hear a low grinding noise coming from the top motor. I take it to the dealer and they replace a torsion bar sensor.

Two days later, I have the same problem occur again. Lucky for me, I was able to recreate the problem at the dealership. Unlucky for me, during my demo for the service folks, I was able to get the top closed, but I started getting "Convertible Top Not Locked!" warnings from iDrive. I turn the car in and let them keep it for about five days (parts delivery issues). They replace a Hall Sensor and the left locking mechanism.

I take the car home the day after I find out service was completed. The report reads: Top Tested 11 Times. I park the car outside in the Central Florida sun all day in my firm's parking lot. I don't use the top as I understand that it has been thoroughly tested (plus I'm at work. Blech.) Later that night, I walk outside and the top indicator light was flashing red. The car's top was locked from the morning, had never been touched all day, and registered a "Convertible Top Not Locked!" warning through iDrive when I start the engine. I take it back straight away.

I've been told today that the top motor needed to be replaced by the dealer. We'll see if that's the issue. I'm going to email this thread to my SA to see if she can pass it around.

I'm starting to think that this is a BMW NA problem after reading the complaints on this thread. Does anyone think it might be a computer issue or electrical problem other than then sensor technology?)

All of this being said, I'm sure there are plenty of 6er 'verts that aren't having issues. Hopefully, mine will be one of those shortly as my service department really is doing everything they can to fix it.

I'd love to see this thread stay alive to see if anyone else is having problems.

Well... on the day that I first noticed the problem, I had managed only to get the windows down. BMW couldn't make an appointment for another 5 days or so. So, I took it to them and they managed to get the windows up!! Actually, the technician pressed the button and the top started working again!! I was sooo pissed! I watched him. He JUST pressed the button. Luckily, the service rep wasn't able to get the top to respond when he had tried before the technician. So, they understood that there was a problem. With the windows up, I waited for my Thursday appointment. I was able to use my car, but missed some glorious nights with a perfect breeze. I was able to at least use the trunk again. I didn't want to risk using the top, because the problem was technically unresolved.
So... they kept the car for the day and gave me a 328i, which eerily irritated me. I don't know why I disliked it so much. I drive my mom's Lexus RX330 all the time and I love that. The 328 just felt like a shame to me. I think I've become a *********. Anyway, I got my car back that same evening. They had changed something and said that something else needed changing... some module. I take it that this module would be the one that is too heat sensitive. They said that the car had a clean bill of health to use in the meantime. I could use the convertible. I did, immediately. Everything worked that night. But, I left my car out for ONE NIGHT and when I went to use it at 11am, the next morning, that stupid light was flashing!! The top, windows and trunk are now not usable. I have to take it in on Thursday anyway. I called to let them know that the top sensor is screwed up again.

Sometimes if the roof is in the up position you can use your key to get into the trunk. I hope that helps but I know you are upset. I had my back window go down once while driving thru a "brushless" car wash!

Hey, I was wondering, if they ever resolved your issue with your BMW? I have a 645 Convertible and they, the service dealership BMW, has had my car for almost 2 weeks, and I WANT IT BACK.. This car is under warranty til October of this year. I have had to use other cars and I am so frustrated I could just die. This car is not cheap and I guess you expect it to be perfect with no flaws. So, I was just wondering if you could help me, by letting me know what they did to resolve this issue for you. I live in Florida, so I really can not imagine that heat would be an issue for this car and its sensors, for I would think BMW would have perfected this flaw, especially those who may buy a convertible would live in the warmer climates.

Please help if you can.. THanx Kim

I am having the same problem!! I live in Florida too.. When that light LED is flashing, the trunk wont open, I try to hit the open button for the trunk and it would not open.. I hit the top down button, it pushes the windows half way down, but top wont open. The service people have had it for almost 2 weeks now, and because I didnt buy it from them, I get NOTHING! BMW is going to have to pay my monthly payment soon, plus rental car reimbursement..

Keep a camera in the car.. Use your cell phone like I had too, because they didnt believe me, by the time I took it to a dealer it would resolve itself. It acted up one day, recently.. Took my Iphone and snapped numerous pictures.. Needless to say, they still have my 645 Convertible, I have a call into BMW north America.

Did they ever resolve it for you?
Kim

Originally Posted by Kimmie97

I am having the same problem!! I live in Florida too.. When that light LED is flashing, the trunk wont open, I try to hit the open button for the trunk and it would not open.. I hit the top down button, it pushes the windows half way down, but top wont open. The service people have had it for almost 2 weeks now, and because I didnt buy it from them, I get NOTHING! BMW is going to have to pay my monthly payment soon, plus rental car reimbursement..

Keep a camera in the car.. Use your cell phone like I had too, because they didnt believe me, by the time I took it to a dealer it would resolve itself. It acted up one day, recently.. Took my Iphone and snapped numerous pictures.. Needless to say, they still have my 645 Convertible, I have a call into BMW north America.

Did they ever resolve it for you?
Kim

That's a great idea to show the dealer those pesky issues that they can never reproduce. Now you need to upgrade to the iPhone 3GS to get the video capability. I love mine.

Originally Posted by Kimmie97

Keep a camera in the car.. Use your cell phone like I had too, because they didnt believe me, by the time I took it to a dealer it would resolve itself.

Hey Kim. Welcome to the "I live in Florida and the heat wave destroyed my 6er's top club."

Anyway, if the top's having problems, usually the car's gong will sound for overspeed errors while driving. Once you hear that, service can verify the error by scanning your key (I think the fault code that will show up will be A6A4).

I live in Central Florida and BMW NA is sending someone down to work on my car as we speak. I've taken it back four times in a row for top problems to date. (I have an '05 645ci.) Interestingly, I just met a fellow 6er owner today who works just down the street from me. His '06 650i hasn't had any problems with the heat we've been having. Luckily though, he's been able to park his car under a carport while at work.

Hope you get everything fixed soon.

Well,

I had a very nice person from BMW North America call me and inquire as to the Convertible Top problems. Indeed, for the last two and a half years it has been of course, the infamous A6A4 Top Not Locked Fault. Each change of season, cool to warm, and warm to cool, four times per year or so, I have had to bring my car into the dealership and have the sensor array adjusted so that the system does not think that the top is unlocked while I am driving and give me an overspeed alarm.

I learned how to spot when this was about to occur so that I would get the fault to occur with the top up, so that I could still make it to, and park at the airport (I travel a great deal) when I did not have time to take this into the dealership.

BMW had a couple regional engineers visiting Atlanta and they wanted to see the car, and devise a fix.

I took it in and let the Engineers have at it.

And, the top has not had the fault over the last two weeks. But right now I am on my sailboat on a lake. I wake at 9:15, trade stocks until 11:00 am - whereupon I grab a cold one and dive over the side and swim and lounge the rest of the day.

So, ..... car top problems are far from my mind. I hope that this does the trick; but we shall see.

BMW North America, thank you for the proactive response in chasing me down on this one.

TStranger27

Just got mine back from the dealership for "fix" #5. Like T, it *appears* to be working. But alas, I'm going to work, feeling the pressures of everyday life.... ahhh my mind, too, is far from car top problems... but just onto other problems. (kudos to you T - enjoy the life you have!).

Originally Posted by TStranger27

BMW had a couple regional engineers visiting Atlanta and they wanted to see the car, and devise a fix.

I wonder if these guys were the same ones that came down to Central Florida to look at my car? I heard from my SA that BMW's visiting engineer only knew of 3 cars that had a similar problem to mine.

Anyway, I've had my 645ci back from service since Friday and the top seems to be in order. Unfortunately, we haven't had hot temperatures lately so I haven't been able to completely verify the fix. Here's hoping though!