07 650i Convertible Top Unlocked Alarm Problem

The "Boseman10 push" has saved me 2 times!!!

Hey Boesman10,

Your symptoms might be an indication of a bad battery or alternater (or even both). I would have it checked out. Ever since I had my alternater and battery replaced I don't get the error that much. I might get it if I hit a couple of bumps on the road but that hardly ever happens.

Can someone tell me where to find the Boseman Push photos on where to apply pressure?

Thanks to Boesman for a field repair that has saved me a couple of times as well! Definitely a legendary fix...

Originally Posted by Spot0814

Can someone tell me where to find the Boseman Push photos on where to apply pressure?

It's post #120 on this same thread, page 5.

Originally Posted by Spot0814

Can someone tell me where to find the Boseman Push photos on where to apply pressure?

Hi Spot0814,

It's post 120 in this thread - or click below:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...&postcount=120

Let me know if it works.

If we have enough people for which this works I'm inclined to write BMW and see if we can get a recall on whatever's causing this. This is bad engineering.

Even though I have not had this problem, I did a little looking.
From this diagram it looks like part #17 could be the culprit. It is a hall effects sensor which is used for proximity switching and positioning. It would seem that a little nudge described by Boesman10 puts it back into the designed (spec) position.

Great job Boesman10

Originally Posted by TxTaz

Even though I have not had this problem, I did a little looking.
From this diagram it looks like part #17 could be the culprit. It is a hall effects sensor which is used for proximity switching and positioning. It would seem that a little nudge described by Boesman10 puts it back into the designed (spec) position.

Great job Boesman10

Good find, the problem isn't the sensor it is the Engineering Design that that the used to monitor the top movement. Take a look at this PDF, they determine the position in 7 segments. WHY? Because some engineer thought it is cool. Take a look at the attached PDF, it shows all the monitoring that occurs during the top open procedure. No wonder heat or cooling expansion contraction will cause it to miss a segment. Or just a glitch in the open/close movement.

My Jeep Wrangler has NO sensors, if you leave your hood open, well it is on you stupid. If you leave your seat forward, who cares? If you leave the top unlocked while in the up position, too bad MORON! For that matter, there aren't even sensors for the doors being open since you can remove them. I am sure that someone will think it is this way in the BMW because of liability, there are no problems on other cars that don't sense every movement.

The Porsche worries about 2 status, is it latched when closed or is it latched when open. That is the most it should be.

Whew, rant all done.

If you read the TSB they mention that the problem part is part #12 in the diagram from TxTaz. There are two sensors, one located on the left side of the frame where you do the "boesman10 push" (this is the problematic sensor) and another one down where the rear of the roof attaches to the body.

Thanks Mark and Yorgi. This information is going into my book of knowledge.

Big Thanks to Boesman10.

His solution has just fixed the roof on my 645Ci. Went all summer without being able to use the roof.

Many Thanks

John

Hello everyone. I just bought a 2007 M6 with 27K miles on it about 3 months ago. Recently I have been experiencing this crazy issue. Activated by heat and other things just like others are describing. I took it to the dealer, they made some adjustments, but based on what I read on this forum I have no confidence it will work long term. One thing the shop foreman mentioned to me the next step would be to replace sensors, although he said it has the new ones in it. Then if that does not work replace the entire top!!! Does that sound right??? It seems bizarre to me that he would recommend replacing the entire top when clearly this is an issue of how the sensor is constructed. Putting the same top on I would think would generate the same result over time.

Should I take to someone else to get a second opinion?

This may seem like a crazy question, but is there a way to disarm the sensor?

Finally, this is clearly a part issue and not user issue. Has there been any recognition of this issue besides an alert from BMW? The foreman told me they fixed this issue with newer models, so they know its a bad design, but are they helping customers resolve this for good?

I love this car, but none of us should have to deal with this or have to push on the roof to get it to work. When I think of BMW, I thought of quality. As a 1st time BMW owner, I am starting to think I might of made a mistake......

Any help would be great.

Matt

You are right on all counts. Others have replaced sensors and/or tops and the same issue manifests. It is one of many engineering flaws in these cars, BMW is sensor crazy and that causes it's own set of problems. I have the same issue periodically, it is always a concern when the temp changes or anytime I put down the top.

To answer your question about disabling them, no one has found a way. I had seen it mentioned at one point in some other thread from years ago but it went nowhere. The problem is that the sensor that causes this monitors the rotation position of the top, so it give constant feedback as to what "segment" the top is located in the rotation. It reads this many times, the computer looks for this, so how can you remove it or trick the necessary feedback? You can't.

I hear you about the frustration with BMW products, I too am not impressed but firmly believe they build these cars for the first owner only. However, I have friends with other high-end vehicles (Mercedes/Jaguar/Range Rover) and they have complaints about the quality of those vehicles equally. You bought a high-end car that is either about out of warranty or is out of warranty, the car manufacturers give you a warranty period and are expected to honor them until the time they are up. They cannot drop you from your warranty during that time period, conversely they do not have to give you free service when it is over. If I choose to buy a car outside of warranty I know the risk and would never expect them to honor problematic parts...I would hope they would, but do not expect it. That is just me! As I said, I am in the same boat with this issue.

Originally Posted by tampamark

You are right on all counts. Others have replaced sensors and/or tops and the same issue manifests. It is one of many engineering flaws in these cars, BMW is sensor crazy and that causes it's own set of problems. I have the same issue periodically, it is always a concern when the temp changes or anytime I put down the top.

To answer your question about disabling them, no one has found a way. I had seen it mentioned at one point in some other thread from years ago but it went nowhere. The problem is that the sensor that causes this monitors the rotation position of the top, so it give constant feedback as to what "segment" the top is located in the rotation. It reads this many times, the computer looks for this, so how can you remove it or trick the necessary feedback? You can't.

I hear you about the frustration with BMW products, I too am not impressed but firmly believe they build these cars for the first owner only. However, I have friends with other high-end vehicles (Mercedes/Jaguar/Range Rover) and they have complaints about the quality of those vehicles equally. You bought a high-end car that is either about out of warranty or is out of warranty, the car manufacturers give you a warranty period and are expected to honor them until the time they are up. They cannot drop you from your warranty during that time period, conversely they do not have to give you free service when it is over. If I choose to buy a car outside of warranty I know the risk and would never expect them to honor problematic parts...I would hope they would, but do not expect it. That is just me! As I said, I am in the same boat with this issue.

+1... my vert top is still working fine and I keep using it every chance I get, knowing that it might malfunction but with the comfort of knowing I can avoid getting stuck by using the boesman nudge (it has malfunctioned twice in 20k+ miles). I agree it's not optimal but outweighed by other positives of the six series.

Originally Posted by gregb

+1... my vert top is still working fine and I keep using it every chance I get, knowing that it might malfunction but with the comfort of knowing I can avoid getting stuck by using the boesman nudge (it has malfunctioned twice in 20k+ miles). I agree it's not optimal but outweighed by other positives of the six series.

So right, the boesman push has been essential to our continuing operation!

Whatever you do don't let them change the entire top, that is the typical lazy dealer approach - replace not repair.

If you have reoccurring issues after your recent repair I would replace the two sensors and have them perform the SIB/TSB modification to the top frame which helps make the sensors less sensitive.

The new F12 has essentially the same top and the E64. I wonder if we could adapt the redesigned F12 sensors on that top to the E64.

So far so good. I am in Tampa and it was freezing this weekend and I had it out each day as I had a 2-day golf tourney. Yesterday it sat in the sun and it got pretty toasty in the afternoon so I got the 2 extremes of weather and no problem.

One thing I remember the foreman at the BMW shop said was that the sensor does not have sufficient room to operate. He said they should have allowed for more room like they do in the newer models today. So my question is, can't that be modified aftermarket to give it more room? To me someone that knows what they are doing should be able to get in there and create the room or will that screw up the communication for checkpoints on the top?

Thanks for everyone's comments. Very informative.

Matt

He is telling you the truth, if you read the TSB in the following thread (go to post #7) you will note that cars 2006 and up they need to modify the bracket hole. I suppose this is "giving it more room"? The problem is that some folks, myself included, have had this done and the problem still occurs. Not to often thankfully, but enough that it is always in the back of my mind. Replacing the top does not fix the sensor design flaw unfortunately.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e63...ml#post1891632

After removing the sensor from the frame, elongate the two upper attachment holes on the sensor cover as shown by the arrows.
Each of these 2 holes should be elongated in the indicated direction by approximately 2-3mm using a small hand file.


Install the sensor back onto the convertible top frame.
Rotate the sensor clockwise about the lower, unmodified hole.
Secure the bracket to the frame

I have the same problem with my 2005 645. The boesman nudge work perfect. When the angle is just a little bit wrong then its might be a solution to change the angle,the position of the bar for the reader slightly in this way. There is this bar where the feeler glide in, I have seen that there is maybe 1 or 2 mm space, now it would be interesting to know, do it read to less or to much for the angle, because it would be helpfully to close the gap on top or bottom of this "gliding bar", to change/fix the angle. Maybe use a small shim on top or bottom. The angle correction when u press there will be only minimal, I guess it should work. On weekend I will try it out. I don't like this acrobatic act there.

Volker

My 07 m-6 convertible was having the top lock issue and I used your diagram to nudge the sensor on the driver side and IT WORKED!! Thanks so much, you made my day. It's an 80 degree day in Boston in March, which is rare, and not being able to put the too down was so frustrating. You truly made my day.

Thanks again
Rob

Originally Posted by boesman10

I live in FL and with the summer heat kicking in I have had this issue now a few times over the past few months (just got my '07 650i Convertible 5 months ago).
I have read many threads and info from other places, and found a workaround for this issue that I have not seen posted anywhere else (at least it works for me).
I've had this happen to me just this morning again (car was parked in the airport garage for a week, and after taking the red-eye back from San Francisco, I could not open the trunk, and noticed the "red convertible top blinking light" problem - last thing you want at 7am after an overnight flight.

So I did what I've now sucessfully done over the past month when this happened, the the light stops blinking right away, and things are back to normal.

So this is what I do (old school):

There's a bar (not the kind you're thinking about) with an elbow that runs behind the canvas in the back pivot point in the convertible top (forgive me - I don't know the technical terms), but the first pic shows what this looks like on the drivers side. I have drawn the approx location of where this bar lies with a red dot indicating the pivot point where the faulty sensor lies.

All I do when I run into this problem is to apply a little pressue to that pivot point with my hand (as indicated by the red dot in the pic) and the red blinking light stops blinking, and things are back to normal (shown in the second attachhment). I normally push the pivot point down towards the body of the car - not a lot of pressure is needed at all. To quantify, if you press hard enough to break an egg, it's to hard. All it needs is a gentle nudge for the sensor to engage (is my guess).

I'm assuming in my case the problem lies with the sensor on the driver side, because I never had to do this on the passenger side, but it may be that in some cases one will have to do this on the passenger side as opposed to the driver side (as shown in the third attachment).

Let me know if this helps anyone else.

This works fine for me, so I'm not planning on taking the car in for this to be fixed, since it does not look as if the successrate in addressing this is that high (and I can't do without the car for two days, and it's out of warrantee anyway).

Unbelievably this worked for me

Boesman10 for Fest President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Driving to the gym this morning (after having the top down yesterday) and the convertible top not locked message came on.

While driving down the freeway, I reached behind and performed the boesman10 push for the first time, and I immediately cured the problem

Boesman10 i= legendary status here!

Once again, the Boesman Push has rescued me!!!

75 degree morning, no apparent reason for the failure as has been stated by BMW...large temperature swings.

Originally Posted by AB

Driving to the gym this morning (after having the top down yesterday) and the convertible top not locked message came on.

While driving down the freeway, I reached behind and performed the boesman10 push for the first time, and I immediately cured the problem

Boesman10 i= legendary status here!

Glad it worked! I tell you it takes some skill (or very long and flexible arms) to do the boesman10 push while driving. I've successfully done it a few times but have to recline the seat while driving to the horror of other drivers.

Not a recommended manuever because of the complexity - more for the "boesman10 push" advanced student (i.e. you are familiar with the boesman10 push from the original post and have graduated to the point where you can complete the push while blindfolded. At that point you're ready to try it in motion, preferably when there are no other cars/obstacles around, like in a parking lot).

It works for me too. I did the same thing accidentally nd it fixed it