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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #1  
Old 09-10-2007, 07:18 PM
BGBMW BGBMW is offline
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123d in US?

I'm sorry if I'm repeating the discussion(s) that probably already took place, but what is the deal on 123d and/or other engines (4 cyl)? Any hope?
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:34 PM
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once again, and if you look at the bmw website, we are only getting the 128i and the 135i. (at least for the first couple of years)
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  #3  
Old 09-10-2007, 09:43 PM
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Too bad.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:20 PM
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A couple years ago, a BMWNA executive said something like, "Americans expect a real BMW to have six cylinders." That's their opinion and they're sticking to it. Personally, I disagree, as four-cylinder 3ers were sold in the U.S. up until about 7 or 8 years ago, and I don't think anyone thought they weren't "real" BMWs.
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Old 09-11-2007, 04:50 AM
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After the 318ti disaster, I doubt BMW NA will be bringing any 4-cyl cars to the US market.
The profile gasket thing didn't help either.


Too bad. I'd be in line for a 123d.
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Old 09-11-2007, 05:42 AM
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I think it's more a problem of bringing diesels to the US, rather than the number of cylinders. A 330d would sell in the US, yet they don't bring it.
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
After the 318ti disaster, I doubt BMW NA will be bringing any 4-cyl cars to the US market.
The profile gasket thing didn't help either.


Too bad. I'd be in line for a 123d.
that was a mistake





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Old 09-11-2007, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
After the 318ti disaster, I doubt BMW NA will be bringing any 4-cyl cars to the US market.
The profile gasket thing didn't help either.


Too bad. I'd be in line for a 123d.
unfortunately many people's concept of an engine's capability is based on it's number of cylinders instead of it's output(which is the bottom line of course). one can hardly compare the output of today's 4cyl. engines as for example a 2.0ltr. petrol turbo making in excess of 200hp/200ft-lbs. to that of the 318ti mill with figures of 140hp/129ft-lbs. personally, i would certainly prefer a 2ltr. turbo with the same output as the detuned n52of the x28 models on the assumptions that it would be lighter and more efficient.
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:44 AM
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I have a gut feeling that we might see them down the road. BMW is bringing over the 535d next year. I think they will see how it goes over.

I think the main pro from bringing over more diesels is the CAFE requirements.
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Old 09-11-2007, 10:57 AM
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I still wish they would have launched this in the US with the 123d as well... offer something for the consumers that want the handling, RWD and good fuel efficiency!

not much new info here...
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/Comments/3388#cm
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  #11  
Old 09-11-2007, 12:15 PM
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that was a mistake
BMW NA decided it was the hatchback and the 4-cyl that was the problem, not the car itself.

=======


I'm a big fan of downsized high power engines like the new turbo diesel.

Most American BMW customers aren't.

BMW NA needs to create the market. A Prius is a terrible car. A 123d isn't.
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 09-11-2007 at 12:19 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2007, 07:41 PM
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A 120d hatchback is the 1-series I really want. But BMW marketing seems to feel that Americans don't want a 4-cyl BMW.
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Old 09-12-2007, 05:39 AM
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A 120d hatchback is the 1-series I really want. But BMW marketing seems to feel that Americans don't want a 4-cyl BMW.
i think that a 4cyl. would sell if marketed well, that is to say if it were depicted with an emphasis on it's output/performance so as to allay the concern that 4cyl. engines are weak. many may recall that 4cyl. 4 valves/cylinder engines have been marketed as 16 valve engines with little reference to their displacements or # of cylinders. while this is a deceptive ploy in that it attempts to greatly exaggerate the robustness of such motors, such duplicity would not be necessary in the case of say a 2ltr. turbo with output of 200+hp and torque. if the american public can be convinced that a big mac is salutary because it has some shredded iceberg lettuce in it then it should be possible to persuade it to believe that a hot 4cyl. motor can adequately propel a vehicle.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aardvark View Post
A couple years ago, a BMWNA executive said something like, "Americans expect a real BMW to have six cylinders." That's their opinion and they're sticking to it. Personally, I disagree, as four-cylinder 3ers were sold in the U.S. up until about 7 or 8 years ago, and I don't think anyone thought they weren't "real" BMWs.
i believe it was said by the head of lexus. a lexus will have no less than 6 cylinders.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:57 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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I think Americans will begin to feel differently about four cylinder engines when gas reaches $5+ per gallon.

Of course, they could always eat more McDonald's (that dollar menu surely is wonderful, no?) and invest the difference into fuel for their SUVs.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:35 AM
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I think Americans will begin to feel differently about four cylinder engines when gas reaches $5+ per gallon.

Of course, they could always eat more McDonald's (that dollar menu surely is wonderful, no?) and invest the difference into fuel for their SUVs.
Isn't the lack of diesels here more due to emissions standards that put diesel's at a disadvantage? Or sulfur content?

I think a BMW diesel would sell well at today's gas prices.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:40 AM
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Isn't the lack of diesels here more due to emissions standards that put diesel's at a disadvantage? Or sulfur content?

I think a BMW diesel would sell well at today's gas prices.

Until recently US fuel had too much sulfur to work with BMW's latest diesels. Now we've got true low sulfur fuel, BMW is going to test the 'waters'. Rumor is an X5 diesel will be first.

If that does well, they may bring over some others.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:54 AM
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The 5 series diesel is already slated for sale in March last I heard (I could be wrong).
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:27 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
Isn't the lack of diesels here more due to emissions standards that put diesel's at a disadvantage? Or sulfur content?

I think a BMW diesel would sell well at today's gas prices.
As noted above: sulfur content was a major problem (it isn't anymore).

Other commonly cited reasons (just what people say - not necessarily accurate):

Diesel is messy and "smells," diesel engines are rough and sound like trucks, it's not as ubiquitous as petrol, and it costs as much or more per gallon as regular 87 octane.

To this, I say:
Never had a problem with smell or mess when fueling diesel rentals in Europe. It's not as though petrol is actually pleasant if you spill it on yourself. The sound/feel is far improved over the old clunkers and truck engines that most people seem to base their opinions on.

Most gas stations I've visited in the US have at least one diesel pump, especially near major interstates. After all, most large trucks use diesel as do many other vehicles. Not nearly as hard to find as some people seem to think.

And the cost? Ridiculous! You might pay a few more cents per gallon (diesel is not subsidized in the US as it is in Europe, where it's always cheaper than petrol as a result) if you pay more at all, but think about the 50+% improvement in fuel economy! Cost per mile is much lower.

There's also convenience. A 700+ mile unrefueled range is a nice thing to have.

Now, I also think that performance diesels are silly (their power curves are unsatisfying and they don't sound particularly nice when you get on them; cast iron blocks add a lot of weight and have a tendency to mess with the car's balance), but as a daily driver I'd be more than happy to own one. A 120d/123d/320d/323d would be just about perfect.
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Last edited by akhbhaat; 09-12-2007 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:17 AM
hector hector is offline
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The 5 series diesel is already slated for sale in March last I heard (I could be wrong).
i'll tell ya what pisses me off; that the larger(more massive) vehicles will receive the diesels first!;that those of us who would like our smaller models to be even more economical will have to get in line while all the pigs in their bloated suvs and such reap the benefits! i'm not sure what the rationale is behind this approach but can only assume that it's a business decision as is any other with nothing else considered other than the effect on sales of profitable models but whatever the reason is; IT SUCKS!.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:20 AM
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I think the success of the benign Prius and the introduction of many new small cars across the board has shown that American car buyers are finally starting to think more about how mass and volume effect fuel economy and eventually their wallets. I beleive its the right time for BMW to re-introduce a fun, yet economical car to the American public in the form of a 4 or even 6 cylinder deisel. Starting with a larger 5, or X5 doesn't make sense to me either. On the other hand, most 5 buyers are probably older than those of the 1 and 3, so they might be more accepting of a ride that gains better gas mileage while reducing the number of cylinders.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:17 AM
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Now, I also think that performance diesels are silly.

Mercedes Benz latest 2.0L diesel puts out 170hp. It works quite well in an E class. Won't be winning any races, but it does have enough power to pass in city traffic. Heck of a lot nicer than a Prius too.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:39 AM
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Over on the 3 series board there are links to BMW official announcement that came out yesterday regarding diesels for the US. As I recall we will be seeing BMW diesels at the end of 2007 so likely as 2008 models. As to which cars get the diesels check out the links (which I haven't yet). but the thread discussion suggested both a 3 series and 5 series.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:35 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Mercedes Benz latest 2.0L diesel puts out 170hp. It works quite well in an E class. Won't be winning any races, but it does have enough power to pass in city traffic. Heck of a lot nicer than a Prius too.
170 is plenty for a commuter, even one as large as the E.

After driving the 118d for 8 days, it's obvious to me now that the Prius is a joke. The small displacement diesel is faster, more fun, simpler and more reliable (no battery replacements or expensive electrical problems down the road), and just as efficient. Show me a Prius that can reach 130 mph.

Considering the 120d and 123d are significantly faster than the 118d without sacrificing fuel economy, I know what'd I'd be looking to buy if the opportunity arose.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
170 is plenty for a commuter, even one as large as the E.

After driving the 118d for 8 days, it's obvious to me now that the Prius is a joke. The small displacement diesel is faster, more fun, simpler and more reliable (no battery replacements or expensive electrical problems down the road), and just as efficient. Show me a Prius that can reach 130 mph.

Considering the 120d and 123d are significantly faster than the 118d without sacrificing fuel economy, I know what'd I'd be looking to buy if the opportunity arose.
in my view, the prius and other hybrids are large scale testbeds for electric car technology that will further the development for the future.
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