How many would like a diesel?

Yes! But then again I already own one, a German Spec 330d. But I'd like to be able to buy a US spec 330d for when I come back to the US. I am actually holding off buying a new car until I found what vehicles will be available with a diesel engine.

hi all , i have a 330 d and love it ,,,loads of power , great on fuel , and sounds great too...
dont knock it until you try it

I'd buy one. I loved my 1995 Mercedes E300 Diesel. If my car wasn't totaled puting me in position where I had to buy a car, I'd certainly have looked at the 335d that's supposed to be in the USA for the next model year.

No diesel for me. I was in Germany last week driving a Golf Tdi 140HP for 1500km... the engine drove me nuts. Diesel are for tractors and will never make sense economically in North America.

Originally Posted by Saintor

No diesel for me. I was in Germany last week driving a Golf Tdi 140HP for 1500km... the engine drove me nuts. Diesel are for tractors and will never make sense economically in North America.

I'm starting to agree - especially since diesel is now pushing $5.25/gallon here in CT. The fuel economy may be 20% better than a comparable gasoline car, but the fuel is 20% more expensive and I am sure the diesel car will be priced higher than the gasoline version. What's the point? I think that BMW missed the boat on diesel here in the U.S. and the timing of their planned introduction couldn't be worse.

Originally Posted by caveatesq

I'm starting to agree - especially since diesel is now pushing $5.25/gallon here in CT. The fuel economy may be 20% better than a comparable gasoline car, but the fuel is 20% more expensive and I am sure the diesel car will be priced higher than the gasoline version. What's the point? I think that BMW missed the boat on diesel here in the U.S. and the timing of their planned introduction couldn't be worse.

Depends on the area and the car. For reasons beyond comprehension BMW isn't releasing their really efficient diesels here. Why is that? No idea. Maybe it's this silly 6 cylinder obsession they have.

A 520d bested a Prius in a test. A 320d sounds like a great car - 40+ mpg freeway, tons of torque.

If the 320d were released here I'd seriously look into it. I get 30 mpg from my Cooper S and pay 4.20 a gallon. Diesel here is 4.50-4.60. For a 10% premium in fuel costs, if I can see a 10% increase in mileage in a normal sized car, I'd be interested. My e90 got 22-23 mpg, so a BMW 3 series that gets 33 combined = 40-45% efficiency increase. That's well worth the cost of the diesel fuel.

320d/323d/330d/335d E91 for me. It is no wonder they are so popular in Euro. Even with the inexplicable attempt to keep diesels out of the USA by the dubious rise in diesel fuel pricing (is it just a coincidence that US carmakers are caught with their pants down again on this?), diesels will eventually command a significant portion of the market. They are >30% more efficient, and the price of diesel should eventually go below that of gas.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

320d/323d/330d/335d E91 for me. It is no wonder they are so popular in Euro. Even with the inexplicable attempt to keep diesels out of the USA by the dubious rise in diesel fuel pricing (is it just a coincidence that US carmakers are caught with their pants down again on this?), diesels will eventually command a significant portion of the market. They are >30% more efficient, and the price of diesel should eventually go below that of gas.

+1 but only e91 330xd or 335xd. 6 cylinders much smoother than 4 cylinders.

I am interested cann't wait to test drive one

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

Depends on the area and the car. For reasons beyond comprehension BMW isn't releasing their really efficient diesels here. Why is that? No idea. Maybe it's this silly 6 cylinder obsession they have.

A 520d bested a Prius in a test. A 320d sounds like a great car - 40+ mpg freeway, tons of torque.

If the 320d were released here I'd seriously look into it. I get 30 mpg from my Cooper S and pay 4.20 a gallon. Diesel here is 4.50-4.60. For a 10% premium in fuel costs, if I can see a 10% increase in mileage in a normal sized car, I'd be interested. My e90 got 22-23 mpg, so a BMW 3 series that gets 33 combined = 40-45% efficiency increase. That's well worth the cost of the diesel fuel.

Wow, San Diego must be in a Diesel alternate universe, because right up the road here in OC, Diesel is closer to $5.20/gal, or about $0.70-$0.80/gal more than premium unleaded. I agree that as long as Diesel sells for 20% more than gasoline, the economics of buying one really aren't convincing.

Originally Posted by AK

Wow, San Diego must be in a Diesel alternate universe, because right up the road here in OC, Diesel is closer to $5.20/gal, or about $0.70-$0.80/gal more than premium unleaded. I agree that as long as Diesel sells for 20% more than gasoline, the economics of buying one really aren't convincing.

+1

Higher premium for a diesel engine + difference in diesel / premium does not justify benefits in efficiency for a diesel economically.

Here are a few other negatives I can think of.
1) Not as nearly as many diesel stations as there are gasoline stations.
2) Not as great sounding (as in vroom vroom)!
3) No MT on the 335d

I'll trade tomorrow if I could get a 330d coupe.

Personally I beleive we should leave diesel for the big rigs becuase in the long run if we all using diesel then we're just driving up the cost of everything else ingeneral; including food on our table. Las time I heard... it cost over a grand to fill up one of those big rigs. Also, it is not all that eviromentally friendly despite the ultra-low sulfer content in today's diesel.

Originally Posted by Vornado

I dont really like the sound of diesel engines. Yeah they're better on gas, yeah they're better for the environment, etc etc. If they can get them to sound better I might consider one.

The European market diesels in the BMW's I see are very quiet. The only time you can tell they aren't gas-powered is at idle and when they keep passing gas stations!

I can't tell you how many times diesel BMWs have out-pulled my '95 525 on the autobahn from rolling starts. You know, the speed restriction ends and there goes the diesel...

The local tire guy's dad can't hardly keep rear tires on his 530 TDS due to the huge amount of torque down low. Aren't they almost as quick as the M5 to boot?

So count me as one who is waiting for a U.S. spec diesel to come along...

Brian

I think this column over at Car and Driver sums up the situation pretty good:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t_of_it_column

Originally Posted by BlueC

For those that don't like the sound of diesels, go to a Le Mans race and listen to Audi's prototype. Out of all of the cars racing, it was by far my favorite car to listen to. Sounded like a jet.

I would love to have a diesel, specifically a turbo diesel.

I've seen the Audi LeMans car several times and had a chance to look it over briefly with the cowl off. The filter for the exhaust is what would make this engine 50 state legal. It is a great engine and it really runs! I think anyone would be pretty satisfied with a street legal version of this diesel.

last time I drove a diesel it was a 90 Vauxhall (GM) Astra estate and it was a nasty piece of work, slow, noisy but it stood up to miles of abuse. By all accounts diesel technology has improved and they are more efficient, cleaner and powerful than their predeccesors. I would consider another diesel but the the price of diesel has to come down before I go derv again.

Originally Posted by bsell

The local tire guy's dad can't hardly keep rear tires on his 530 TDS due to the huge amount of torque down low. Aren't they almost as quick as the M5 to boot?

Not even close. Diesels do have mountains of torque but they conversely have less hp/L. Torque is the rate at which hp is applied, so diesels can apply hp "faster", but there's less hp there to begin with.

For example, the upcoming 335d has loads of torque - 425 lb-ft at 1750 rpm, but only 265 bhp. So despite having way more torque than a 335i, it can only do 0-62 in about 6.2 secs, compared to the 335i doing it in 4.8-5.2 secs. Plus, the diesel's redline is much lower (boo), the engine will never sound like a BMW inline-6 (boo), and it will rev tractor-slow by comparison (boo). Fuel economy is expected to be 23/33, compared to 17/26 for the 335i. The 335d is basically a 328i but crappier, more expensive, and Steptronic-only.

Yuck. Send it back.

Originally Posted by jwac

Not even close. Diesels do have mountains of torque but they conversely have less hp/L. Torque is the rate at which hp is applied, so diesels can apply hp "faster", but there's less hp there to begin with.

For example, the upcoming 335d has loads of torque - 425 lb-ft at 1750 rpm, but only 265 bhp. So despite having way more torque than a 335i, it can only do 0-62 in about 6.2 secs, compared to the 335i doing it in 4.8-5.2 secs. Plus, the diesel's redline is much lower (boo), the engine will never sound like a BMW inline-6 (boo), and it will rev tractor-slow by comparison (boo). Fuel economy is expected to be 23/33, compared to 17/26 for the 335i. The 335d is basically a 328i but crappier, more expensive, and Steptronic-only.

Yuck. Send it back.

Diesel is currently 20% more than regular gas. Therefore the MPG is the same for non diesel when you factor in fuel costs.

However, since the demand for diesel is expected to increase globally, mostly because of Chinese power plants, I see diesel being about 30-40% more than regular gas in the future. So I think we are too late bringing diesels here. Yeah it has torque and you can tow a boat, but 99% of the consumers won't care.

Torque is the rate at which hp is applied, so diesels can apply hp "faster", but there's less hp there to begin with.

Your definition of torque couldn't be wronger, but it is correct that HP is what matters when accelerating, at any speed. This is made possible by torque and/or gearing. I don't want to see that formula that kids love to play with again.

Originally Posted by AK

I think this column over at Car and Driver sums up the situation pretty good:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t_of_it_column

But congress is putting the squeeze on car manufacturers for better fleet mpg. If BMW were to throw in a couple diesel options in the mix it just might be the cheapest way for BMW to meet the new laws without having to go hybrid. Which I think is a passing fad. BMW doesn't care if it might cost their owners more to drive their diesels as long as BMW mets the new MPG requirements.

craig

Originally Posted by craigr

But congress is putting the squeeze on car manufacturers for better fleet mpg. If BMW were to throw in a couple diesel options in the mix it just might be the cheapest way for BMW to meet the new laws without having to go hybrid. Which I think is a passing fad. BMW doesn't care if it might cost their owners more to drive their diesels as long as BMW mets the new MPG requirements.

craig

Ah, this does and does not make sense.

If BMW builds diesels to help with their average, they must sell them to consumers for them to count. If consumers do not buy them because of the cost of diesel, then the plan won't work.

Using diesels to improve CAFE averages across the corporate line only works if folks actually buy them. I don't see American's who buy $40-$80k cars caring much about diesels.

Hybrids and diesels belong in Corollas and Rabbits. Cars designed to be cheap to buy and operate.

Originally Posted by Saintor

Your definition of torque couldn't be wronger, but it is correct that HP is what matters when accelerating, at any speed.

Fine. Torque is the moment of a force; the measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector.

Originally Posted by sdbrandon

Ah, this does and does not make sense.

If BMW builds diesels to help with their average, they must sell them to consumers for them to count. If consumers do not buy them because of the cost of diesel, then the plan won't work.

Using diesels to improve CAFE averages across the corporate line only works if folks actually buy them. I don't see American's who buy $40-$80k cars caring much about diesels.

Hybrids and diesels belong in Corollas and Rabbits. Cars designed to be cheap to buy and operate.

I agree with your does and doesn't statement. Yet in the world of percentages maybe being able to sell 150 diesels might just get BMW into the proper MPG range. Of course you might have to stop selling the M5s. But wait a minute maybe turn the V10 into a twin turbo diesel. Now that would be interesting. Sorry got carried away.


craig

what makes you think diesels get better mpg when you are making 265bhp versus the petrol at the same 265bhp 3.0?

i agree they make better mpg at steady cruise and idle but i seriously doubt if i drove that diesel the mpg would suck butt.

Same with a prius i'd probably get 20mpg because it would be at WOT 100% of the time.