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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 10-03-2007, 08:10 PM
orca4wd orca4wd is offline
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Bleeding Clutch Hydraulic System

I find this article to be interesting and was wonder if anyone tried it. Basically, using a trigger type oiling can to back flash the air bubbles without having to pump the pedal even once. It is a cheap and easy way done by one person.

http://www.bmpdesign.com/technical/t...eed_clutch.php

Any thoughts or comments?
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2007, 08:33 PM
Vinci Vinci is offline
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The Motive pressure bleeder is pretty inexpensive and makes it a one-man job as well. It bleeds downward though. Great for flushing the system.

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  #3  
Old 10-05-2007, 03:49 AM
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Clutch bleeder screw is at the bottom, so to use Motive bleeder you have to remove the slave cylinder and invert.

And the Motive adds micro bubbles to brake fluid, I don't use one any more.

The pump fluid from the bottom is how aircraft brakes are normaly bled, works quite well. And single person also.
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  #4  
Old 10-05-2007, 04:51 AM
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The clutch system will "self bleed" to a certain extent. If you wait overnight, most of the air bubles in the MC will find their way out of the system. But as pinecone mentioned, the bleader on the slave is not at the top. You'll need to remove the slave to remove any air from that side.
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  #5  
Old 10-05-2007, 04:52 AM
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Oh, if you do a 2 person or a pressure bleed, make sure the reservoir is filled above the feed tube to the clutch MC.
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  #6  
Old 10-05-2007, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orca4wd View Post
I find this article to be interesting and was wonder if anyone tried it. Basically, using a trigger type oiling can to back flash the air bubbles without having to pump the pedal even once. It is a cheap and easy way done by one person.

http://www.bmpdesign.com/technical/t...eed_clutch.php

Any thoughts or comments?
I think it's a good method but I would also flush the whole system at the same time.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ighlight=bleed
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2007, 08:03 AM
Vinci Vinci is offline
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I'm afraid I don't see how any pressure bleeder is adding bubbles to the fluid. It feeds the fluid into the reservior at fairly low pressure (~15psi) and then it settles in the reservoir before it ever enters the hydraulic lines.

I am going to be doing mine again this weekend to see if I can raise the pedal engagement point. It has been fairly low ever since I've owned the car, and I've never bled the slave off the transmission. It will be a good time to throw on the clutch line I've had sitting around too.

I'm going to see if I can use a c-clamp to compress the slave piston. I can't remember if there is suitable location on the back of the slave to clamp against, but I can rig something up.
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  #8  
Old 10-06-2007, 02:35 AM
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Because the compressed air is in contact with the fluid and this forces air into the fluid.

Real pressure bleeders have a diaphragm between the fluid and the compressed air. And if you flush, it goes into the lines and calipers still under pressure which keeps the air entrained.

I have tried it over several iterations and I get a much firmer pedal doing it the old fashioned way, and get less fluid problems at the track. So have MANY other people.

If you use a pressure bleeder, it helps to NOT put fluid in the bleeder, just use it for air pressure. The reduced surface area contact with the compressed air reduces the effect.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2007, 06:55 AM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
Because the compressed air is in contact with the fluid and this forces air into the fluid.

Real pressure bleeders have a diaphragm between the fluid and the compressed air. And if you flush, it goes into the lines and calipers still under pressure which keeps the air entrained.

I have tried it over several iterations and I get a much firmer pedal doing it the old fashioned way, and get less fluid problems at the track. So have MANY other people.

If you use a pressure bleeder, it helps to NOT put fluid in the bleeder, just use it for air pressure. The reduced surface area contact with the compressed air reduces the effect.
Son of a gun! I've been using it that way because I hate cleaning the thing out after each use.

Back in the 70's, when I worked as a (REAL) gas station, they had a pressure bleeder with a diaphragm to separate the fluid/compressed air. I'm kind of surprised at the limited availability of a similar tool for the home-based mechanic; not that I've searched, but if I saw it, I probably would've bought one.
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:13 AM
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I have looked for one, and they are available, but pro version that cost a LOT.

I just have a friend come over or get my wife to help and do it the old fashioned way.
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  #11  
Old 10-07-2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
I have looked for one, and they are available, but pro version that cost a LOT.

I just have a friend come over or get my wife to help and do it the old fashioned way.
KD 2222 is not too bad price-wise ($200 or less street price). The Branick G300 is nicer but almost double the price. I've seen the Branick in person, but not the KD. However, I suspect the KD would more than suffice for home use. The big difference is that Branick offers better adapter setups for master cylinder resrvoirs. But you can just steal the one from a Bavarian Autosport pressure bleeder.

For brakes, I've had good luck with speed bleeder valves in the stock calipers. I haven't put them in the Wilwoods yet. The ones I like are $15 each (306 stainless, dust caps included). http://www.speedbleeder.zoovy.com
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  #12  
Old 10-07-2007, 01:18 PM
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phrider phrider is offline
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DWM, if you happen to recall, what size are our M Roadster stock bleeder valve screws?
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  #13  
Old 10-07-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by phrider View Post
DWM, if you happen to recall, what size are our M Roadster stock bleeder valve screws?
I think M7x1.0x35.15, but I'll check for you tomorrow since I think I still have some new ones somewhere. On my way out the door at the moment.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2007, 02:45 PM
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I think M7x1.0x35.15, but I'll check for you tomorrow since I think I still have some new ones somewhere. On my way out the door at the moment.
Z3 Brakes = M7x1.0--7mm hex
Z3 Slave = M6x1.0--7mm hex

Z4 Brakes = M8x1.25--9mm hex
Z4 Slave = M6x1.0--7mm hex
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  #15  
Old 10-07-2007, 02:48 PM
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A post from Josh over eight years ago

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  #16  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:34 PM
Donlundm3 Donlundm3 is offline
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I just installed the UUC clutch line and did the following bleed procedure which worker fine.

1. After all lines in place and tight, I did 3-4 manual bleeds of the slave, i.e. opened bleeder and pushed brake pedal, closed bleeder, lifted pedel, until the old fluid wa gone, along with much of the air.
2. On the last push of the pedal with open bleeder, I left the pedal in the down position over night, a good 16 hours.
3. Came back next morning and slowly lifted the pedal back up.
4. It stayed up and worked perfectly. Slightly lighter feel to it than before, not as much back pressure or resistance, but that could be due to the line.
5. Drove it around and no issues. Wife likes the lighter feel.

I learned this procedure while rebuilding the brakes of an old motorcycle. Couldn't get all the air out no matter how much fluid I put through it. Was told to pull the brake lever as far as it would go, tie tit there and leave it over night. Did that, let it out the next morning and voila, brakes.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donlundm3 View Post
4. It stayed up and worked perfectly. Slightly lighter feel to it than before, not as much back pressure or resistance, but that could be due to the line.
Or air in the system.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 11-26-2008 at 08:48 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Donlundm3 Donlundm3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar View Post
Or air in the syatem.
You think? I didn't like the thought of trying to get the top nut back on the slave as my fingers aren't long enough to get at it and couldn't see how to do it. However, if, through your much more extensive experience than mine, you think that's the case, I guess I'll find a way to do it.
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  #19  
Old 11-12-2007, 05:01 PM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donlundm3 View Post
You think? I didn't like the thought of trying to get the top nut back on the slave as my fingers aren't long enough to get at it and couldn't see how to do it. However, if, through your much more extensive experience than mine, you think that's the case, I guess I'll find a way to do it.
Or, you could leave it to me, as I'll have the undertray off (for the bearings) and have the BMW clutch bleeding tool.
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  #20  
Old 11-12-2007, 05:21 PM
Vinci Vinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
Or, you could leave it to me, as I'll have the undertray off (for the bearings) and have the BMW clutch bleeding tool.
+1 to that. If Randy is going to be under there anyhow, the BMW bleeder tool makes short work of a proper bleed. You can do it without one, but it's not elegant.
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  #21  
Old 11-12-2007, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
Or, you could leave it to me, as I'll have the undertray off (for the bearings) and have the BMW clutch bleeding tool.
That's what I would do.
Air compresses.
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2007, 05:20 PM
Donlundm3 Donlundm3 is offline
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That will be done.
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:45 PM
snowphun snowphun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stygar View Post
Bumping an old thread that's full of good info. The syringe method is intriguing, but I'm a bit confused: assuming there is some air in the slave, where does the air go with this method? It must be getting pushed into the hard line towards the MC? That appears to be a lot of line with a number of up and down bends where the air could get trapped?

Finally, where does one buy a 60cc syringe?

Thanks,
Paul
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  #24  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:17 PM
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Just buy the BMW slave cylinder bleeder tool. It works well and it's not difficult to remove and replace the slave cylinder.
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  #25  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:19 PM
awdonald awdonald is offline
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Last bleed" I used the oil can method...now a little off topic....and it worked great. I had a 12" (or so) clear plastic hose so could watch for bubbles (were'nt any). One man job.
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