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  #1  
Old 01-02-2008, 01:13 PM
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BMW brings clean diesels to US

2008 Detroit Auto Show Preview: BMW X5 xDrive35d and 335d
Date posted: 01-02-2008

WOODCLIFF LAKE, New Jersey BMW will use the Detroit auto show to introduce its clean-diesel technology, dubbed BluePerformance. The first BMW models to feature the system will be the X5 xDrive35d utility vehicle and the 335d sedan, both of which go on sale next fall in all 50 states.

BMW trails its German rivals Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi in trumpeting the latest clean-diesel technology, despite the fact that two-thirds of all BMWs sold in Europe are equipped with diesel engines.

The first of the new-generation BMW clean diesels is a twin-turbocharged, direct-injection 3.0-liter inline six-cylinder that makes 265 horsepower and 425 pound-feet of torque. The 335d accelerates from zero to 60 in less than 6.2 seconds and returns EPA city/highway fuel economy of 23/33 mpg. The comparable figures for the X5 xDrive35d are 7.2 seconds and 19/25 mpg.

At one time, all three were expected to join in a clean-diesel alliance, using the Bluetec system jointly developed by Mercedes and Bosch, but since have elected to pursue separate paths. VW is marketing its diesels under the long-running TDI label.

The Mercedes and BMW systems use a similar approach to reducing nitrogen oxide emissions, injecting a urea solution dubbed AdBlue into the catalytic converter.

What this means to you: The Germans can invent new nicknames until they're blue in the face, but we will always think of this new technology as "clean diesel." Anita Lienert, Correspondent


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=124133
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2008, 01:32 PM
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I can understand an X5 diesel selling well, but a 335d that only gets 23/33 mpg - not sure who the market is for that. That mileage is too low to please a legitimate tree hugger, while performance nuts will probably prefer the 335i.

I think a 320d would sell a lot more, but maybe that's not what BMW NA really wants?

Then again, I haven't driven a BMW diesel since a 320d back in 1999 or so, maybe they're more fun these days. I mainly didn't like the 4500 rpm redline.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2008, 04:07 PM
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The MB E320 Bluetec has better overall performance than the gasoline powered E350 with 150% more torque.
Zero to 60 is ~0.1 sec slower than the gasoline model, but it is more responsive once it is rolling.
The main drawback is that the cost of diesel fuel in the US is ~10% to 15% more than gasoline.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2008, 06:02 PM
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2008, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
I can understand an X5 diesel selling well, but a 335d that only gets 23/33 mpg - not sure who the market is for that. That mileage is too low to please a legitimate tree hugger, while performance nuts will probably prefer the 335i.
I agree but how can you argue against 425 lb-ft of torque?
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2008, 06:21 PM
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OH HAPPY DAY!

Now let's find out if they run on Biodiesel so I can get one of these new puppies. No biodiesel....no deal. Don't like playing the petroleum game anymore.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
I can understand an X5 diesel selling well, but a 335d that only gets 23/33 mpg - not sure who the market is for that. That mileage is too low to please a legitimate tree hugger, while performance nuts will probably prefer the 335i.

I think a 320d would sell a lot more, but maybe that's not what BMW NA really wants?

Then again, I haven't driven a BMW diesel since a 320d back in 1999 or so, maybe they're more fun these days. I mainly didn't like the 4500 rpm redline.
DITTO!

That 335d is still a gas hog when you consider the Jetta TDI delivers about 38 city and 48 hwy (my numbers). Clearly BMW can bring in less power and MUCH better numbers than 23/33. We tree huggers want to see the 4 number....as in 40 mpg hwy...or more.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
OH HAPPY DAY!

Now let's find out if they run on Biodiesel so I can get one of these new puppies. No biodiesel....no deal. Don't like playing the petroleum game anymore.

Most biodiesel is made from soybeans. Have you seen sybean prices lately? Without the government subsidy of $1 per gallon, biodiesel would be significantly more expensive that petro-diesel. Even with the subsidy, biodiesel producers cant make any money.
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:38 PM
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Most biodiesel is made from soybeans. Have you seen sybean prices lately? Without the government subsidy of $1 per gallon, biodiesel would be significantly more expensive that petro-diesel. Even with the subsidy, biodiesel producers cant make any money.
yeah, and Brazilian farmers have been razing rain forest to grow soybeans.
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by grkmec View Post
Most biodiesel is made from soybeans. Have you seen sybean prices lately? Without the government subsidy of $1 per gallon, biodiesel would be significantly more expensive that petro-diesel. Even with the subsidy, biodiesel producers cant make any money.
I think the point is that unlike petroleum products, soybeans do grow on trees. Or at least bushes. Most people in the market for a new BMW aren't too price sensitive when it comes to fuel.
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  #11  
Old 01-02-2008, 07:40 PM
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I agree but how can you argue against 425 lb-ft of torque?
yeah, but so does a diesel pickup. Maybe the car is good, the 330d got great reviews in Europe, but it's hard for me to imagine a 4500 rpm redline being much fun.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2008, 08:43 PM
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2008, 01:32 PM
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2008, 02:40 PM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Originally Posted by jcatral14 View Post
I agree but how can you argue against 425 lb-ft of torque?
The 118d that I had in March put out 221 lb-ft. My daily driver 323i puts out 181 lb-ft.

Believe me: the 118d felt - and was - a hell of a lot slower than the 323i.

That said, it managed over 40 mpg during regular driving. That's precisely what I'd expect and want from a diesel; torque figures be damned.
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2008, 10:51 PM
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if it had mpg in the 40's it would be a big success.
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2008, 07:00 AM
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I fear that the change in fuel economy ratings for 2008 model year may unravel a lot of enthusiasm for six cylinder diesels. The 23/33 number, after all, would have have been 27/36 last year. Likewise, for the X5, 19/25 would have been 22/27. I can only hope that these numbers are conservative.
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2008, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
DITTO!

That 335d is still a gas hog when you consider the Jetta TDI delivers about 38 city and 48 hwy (my numbers). Clearly BMW can bring in less power and MUCH better numbers than 23/33. We tree huggers want to see the 4 number....as in 40 mpg hwy...or more.
I was seriously thinking about getting a 335d but after seeing these crappy MPG's and no MT , I'm not even interested. If BMW would bring over the 320d or 120d with an MT, I'd consider that. I'm not that thrilled about this urea deal either, even the VW's need to fuss with that. I'm surprised they can't meet safe emissions without urea now that we have ULSD.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2008, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Moderato View Post
I was seriously thinking about getting a 335d but after seeing these crappy MPG's and no MT , I'm not even interested. If BMW would bring over the 320d or 120d with an MT, I'd consider that. I'm not that thrilled about this urea deal either, even the VW's need to fuss with that. I'm surprised they can't meet safe emissions without urea now that we have ULSD.
We'll have to see what the urea issue involves cost wise....it may be as simple as an oil change and hopefully inexpensive. If it's several hundred $$ I think that will turn off the consumer. I agree that offering only the 335d must be the brilliant idea by the same BMWNA suits that prevent Americans from enjoying the wonderful model choices Europeans have.
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2008, 08:50 AM
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well what does the current 335i sedan get with an atomatic 30-31 hwy right, what do people average in the real world with 335i's?? If the dieseal gets 5-6mpg better and costs the same..then there is a slight advantage over gasoline..especially if you are in stop and go traffic all the time
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:54 AM
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milobloom242 milobloom242 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian McKinney View Post
well what does the current 335i sedan get with an atomatic 30-31 hwy right, what do people average in the real world with 335i's?? If the dieseal gets 5-6mpg better and costs the same..then there is a slight advantage over gasoline..especially if you are in stop and go traffic all the time
Aren't they rated 17/26 mpg? 31's pretty good so the premium of the diesel engine plus urea maintenance plus higher diesel fuel cost might not be worth it economically.
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  #21  
Old 01-10-2008, 08:56 AM
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19/28 just looked on edmunds.com...
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2008, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Moderato View Post
If BMW would bring over the 320d or 120d with an MT, I'd consider that.
I've been looking at Australian BMWs due to my probable relocation there, and both the 320d and 120d are step only (so is the 335i in Oz, for that matter).
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2008, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MarcusSDCA View Post
We'll have to see what the urea issue involves cost wise....it may be as simple as an oil change and hopefully inexpensive. If it's several hundred $$ I think that will turn off the consumer. I agree that offering only the 335d must be the brilliant idea by the same BMWNA suits that prevent Americans from enjoying the wonderful model choices Europeans have.
Its bizarre to me, in another read, most posters who have driven the diesel agree that the diesel isnt' nearly as much fun as the gas, lower redline, boring power delivery, etc. etc.

With no manual, and relatively lousy gas mileage, urea required and sky prices for diesel (its about 30 cent premium where i live), what's the point?

Honda is bringing their diesel over at the end of this year, it is 50 state compliant, it gets 60mpg in Europe and should get 50mpg here, and best of all, no urea whatsoever.

Of course, it is a 4 cylinder and it only makes about 160 bhp or so, but it has about 250 lb of torque which is plenty to get the thing going off the line.

Now that is diesel I might buy, granted, not much fun, and I'm not comparing it to the BMW, but it seems to me I'd get the diesel for fuel economy reasons, and nothing else...and the 335d has very average at best projected fuel economy.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2008, 10:11 AM
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I've been looking at Australian BMWs due to my probable relocation there, and both the 320d and 120d are step only (so is the 335i in Oz, for that matter).
I'm a bit shocked that BMW being the MT proponents they are wouldn't make these cars available with an MT. You can get a 5 series with an MT but not a diesel commuter???
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  #25  
Old 01-10-2008, 10:25 AM
Cliff Cliff is offline
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I'm a bit shocked that BMW being the MT proponents they are wouldn't make these cars available with an MT. You can get a 5 series with an MT but not a diesel commuter???
First off, I don't know that I would characterize BMW as being MT proponents. Second, from all accounts (and those are all I can personally work from at this point), a diesel does not exactly produce a sublime driving experience. A 320d is not intended to be a driver's car, per se. It's a relatively inexpensive commuter that gets excellent mileage with relatively low emissions.
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