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  #1  
Old 10-19-2007, 07:49 PM
ak907 ak907 is offline
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BMW xdrive vs Audi quattro

Hey guys. come someone help me out here? I have a buddy who, like myself, appreciates the fine driving machine that we call a BMW. He is also a big fan of Audi's, Porsche's, and such which there is nothing wrong with in the least. We got to talking, though, and he is dead set in his thinking that the Audi quattro awd system is superior in EVERY way to the BMW Xdrive and that a quattro equipped Audi will outhandle an awd BMW in the snow every time, hands down. I think he was pissed 'cause I showed him all these comparisons where a Bimmer won against an Audi due to its superior handling charecteristics nearly everytime and his retort was, "Yeah, but in the winter an Audi will destroy a BMW, ha ha." Please help me out here, I just can't stand the affont to my dignity. Thanks,

Marc
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quattro is probably safer and likely superior to xDrive. There are also certain instances where xDrive doesn't really work too well. However, I must say xDrive is a lot of fun since it has an inherent tendency to put back wheels. Yes, that means oversteer is more likely in the BMW than the Audi............but honestly I don't mind that at all. I'll trade a bit of safety for more flexibility and fun.
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2007, 08:13 PM
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If your speaking strictly about driving in snow.... i agree with your friend...

but the xdrive is still good enough...and when the snow melts you still have a bmw....
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2007, 08:25 PM
ak907 ak907 is offline
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Okay, I might happen to agree that the quattro system is a wonderfully put together AWD with an outstanding track record, but safety and that kind of stuff aside, is a BMW still going to hang with an Audi in the winter when it comes to "spirited driving"? Doesn't the Bimmers inherent handling traits help it out there? Thanks again guys,

AK
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2007, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak907 View Post
Okay, I might happen to agree that the quattro system is a wonderfully put together AWD with an outstanding track record, but safety and that kind of stuff aside, is a BMW still going to hang with an Audi in the winter when it comes to "spirited driving"? Doesn't the Bimmers inherent handling traits help it out there? Thanks again guys,

AK
In winter driving...wet and slick...the Audi owns it. Wouldn't even be close.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:02 AM
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xDrive acts faster than other systems, because it is able to think ahead and anticipate upcoming situations on the road. To offer this benefit, xDrive uses information from the wheel sensors showing the system wheth*er a wheel is about to spin and providing data gathered by DSC stability con*trol. The yaw rate (rotation around the car's vertical axis) and the posi*tion of the steering wheel, for example, offer important data on current driv*ing conditions. Data of this kind is essential, for example, when taking a bend fast and dynamically, xDrive consistently spreading out drive forces perfectly between the two axles and minimising both under- and oversteer in the process.

Apart from this significant improvement of agility and driving pleasure, xDrive also ensures a substantial increase in driving safety, BMW's DSC stability control system therefore intervening far later in many cases than would be required with a conventional all-wheel-drive concept.



Better traction, particularly on snow and loose ground.

With BMW xDrive reacting within fractions of a second, the system offers enormous advantages also in terms of traction. When setting out on slippery or loose ground, for example, the time-lag between the loss of wheel grip on the surface and the re-distribution of drive forces to wheels with grip is only a few milliseconds. So xDrive elegantly solves and eliminates the usual prob*lems otherwise encountered so often when setting off, without the driver even noticing what is happening.

(reprint)
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2007, 07:11 PM
raf996 raf996 is offline
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I agree with your frind as well. Audi Quattro in snow or ice has no match. I owned an Audi and driven Volvos, Subarus, Xdrives, mercedes 4matcs. The Audi is capable of being thrown around in snow with complete control. I have had so much fun in my Audi. The others seem to have so much electronic control that all they do is slow you down and keep you going straight and "under control". If i am buying an all wheel drive it would definitely be an Audi.
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2007, 07:28 PM
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audi uses the gleason torsen system and said to be one of the best

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...d_2.htm#Torsen
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2007, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak907 View Post
Okay, I might happen to agree that the quattro system is a wonderfully put together AWD with an outstanding track record, but safety and that kind of stuff aside, is a BMW still going to hang with an Audi in the winter when it comes to "spirited driving"? Doesn't the Bimmers inherent handling traits help it out there? Thanks again guys,

AK
One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2007, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.


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  #11  
Old 11-10-2007, 10:35 PM
mercury26 mercury26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.
Hmm, why not?!?!? It is one of the best time to let the beast out of the cage.

Cheers,

Chuck
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.
it would seem to me that it would depend on where you do the spirited driving
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:37 PM
Z4 Steve Z4 Steve is offline
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I would go with the Audi.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2007, 03:57 AM
93LE 93LE is offline
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Having owned an A4 and a 328xi, the Audi is clearly the better system for handling and performance in snow / slush / torrential rain. Quattro, being a completely mechanical system, allows a much finer degree of control and responsiveness. The difference is not night and day, but it is very noticeable. Quattro feels very intuitive and does enable even a rookie driver to throw the car around in the snow and ice.

On dry pavement, Quattro understeers like a stuck pig. Latest tuning in the B7 series has tuned more oversteer bias to lessen this to a degree, the Xdrive still 'feels' more fun due to its RWD bias/tuning
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2007, 06:17 AM
Ron_jeremy Ron_jeremy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93LE View Post
Having owned an A4 and a 328xi, the Audi is clearly the better system for handling and performance in snow / slush / torrential rain. Quattro, being a completely mechanical system, allows a much finer degree of control and responsiveness. The difference is not night and day, but it is very noticeable. Quattro feels very intuitive and does enable even a rookie driver to throw the car around in the snow and ice.

On dry pavement, Quattro understeers like a stuck pig. Latest tuning in the B7 series has tuned more oversteer bias to lessen this to a degree, the Xdrive still 'feels' more fun due to its RWD bias/tuning
The 328i was a E46, and did not have X-drive at all!
The X-drive was introduced in 03 with the X3 i belive, E53 got X-drive in 04 with the facelift, and E60/61 has it also, anong with the E9*.
So get your facts straight before blabla...

Funny how many says Audi quattro is the better 4*4 system.
Actually it tells me how much branding means these days...


For RL experience, and facts --- I live in norway, safe to say, this is a winter country to say the least...
There've been several serious test on 4*4 systems, because these systems provides usability on all surfaces and up here, we need it.

So, these test, to the tester's surprise, found the X-drive system to be better and faster than the Audi Quattro systems.
The world are progressing you know, nothing remains the same, so before answearing on things you think, check some facts first.
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2007, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HW View Post
audi uses the gleason torsen system and said to be one of the best

http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...d_2.htm#Torsen
Note that "Quattro" is not a technology, it's just Audi's clever branding for AWD.

They used to use Torsen, which is quite good, and probably better than xDrive.

However, they have recently changed to a different front-wheel-drive biased system, which is lighter, gets better gas mileage, and is apparently more geared for regular driving and not necessarily the tough stuff. I forget what the technology is called. Begins with an 'H'.

I'm not certain how it stacks up to xDrive or their previous Torsen system, but it's not clear to me that Audi's new system is the winner in snow.
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2007, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumbration View Post
However, they have recently changed to a different front-wheel-drive biased system, which is lighter, gets better gas mileage, and is apparently more geared for regular driving and not necessarily the tough stuff. I forget what the technology is called. Begins with an 'H'.
Haldex maybe?
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2007, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_jeremy View Post

For RL experience, and facts --- I live in norway, safe to say, this is a winter country to say the least...
There've been several serious test on 4*4 systems, because these systems provides usability on all surfaces and up here, we need it.

So, these test, to the tester's surprise, found the X-drive system to be better and faster than the Audi Quattro systems.
The world are progressing you know, nothing remains the same, so before answearing on things you think, check some facts first.
Can you provide a link to these tests...I'd be very interested in reading thru them. Thanks.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2007, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
Haldex maybe?
Yep. that's the technology that Audi is currently using for the A6. I'm not certain about the A4 and A8 since I only focused on the A6 when I was doing my research, but I wouldn't be surprised if they use or will use Haldex as well.

Ron_jeremy, if you have some links or simply more info, we'd love to hear it.


One question I have regarding xDrive vs other systems: It seems like xDrive relies rather heavily on the brakes to help distribute power. That may work out very well when corrections are only required occasionally, but I'm wondering if it's a reasonable system to use in the kind of racing in the video that HW posted. Is there a risk of brake overheat and failure?
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  #20  
Old 11-24-2007, 07:40 PM
93LE 93LE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_jeremy View Post
The 328i was a E46, and did not have X-drive at all!
The X-drive was introduced in 03 with the X3 i belive, E53 got X-drive in 04 with the facelift, and E60/61 has it also, anong with the E9*.
So get your facts straight before blabla...

Funny how many says Audi quattro is the better 4*4 system.
Actually it tells me how much branding means these days...


For RL experience, and facts --- I live in norway, safe to say, this is a winter country to say the least...
There've been several serious test on 4*4 systems, because these systems provides usability on all surfaces and up here, we need it.

So, these test, to the tester's surprise, found the X-drive system to be better and faster than the Audi Quattro systems.
The world are progressing you know, nothing remains the same, so before answearing on things you think, check some facts first.
I think you should check out your facts before you attack someone. E90 328xi. Mine was a 2007 though

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/328xisedan/default





wow! aren't you a pompous ass. What's Norwegian for "Owned"? Have you even owned both cars and can make a valid first person comment? Or are you the typical Internet bench racer: quoting third person accounts and magazine tests as gospel? Nice to know you let 'professional testers' do the thinking for you.
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Last edited by 93LE; 11-24-2007 at 07:48 PM.
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  #21  
Old 11-24-2007, 07:52 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex

http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/t...x__clutch.html

haldex is being used in the TT and A3


torsen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen

Quote:
Torsen applications


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  #22  
Old 11-24-2007, 07:59 PM
93LE 93LE is offline
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In general, Haldex is used when the engine is mounted latitudinally as the TT and A3 are based on the VW golf/jetta platform which mounts the engine sideways.

The last (B5 and B5.5) Passat from 1996-2005 had a longitudinally mounted engine as it was based on the Audi A4 chassis, and thus its AWD system was actually 'Quattro'
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  #23  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:04 AM
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Note that Audi's own website specfically stated that the new A6 uses Haldex.

They have rewritten the page that this was stated on, but courtesy of the wayback machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/2005-re_/...A6/Safety.html

Quote:
2007 Audi A6 Safety

quattro®
The latest generation of Haldex inter-axle clutch converts torque from the engine with scarcely any loss of efficiency. quattro® distributes power between the front and rear wheels, thus increasing traction, propulsion and safety in all situations.
They rewrote the page to read:

Quote:
quattro®
quattro® is at the core of Audi's innovative technology. Whether you’re on or off-road, quattro distributes power to the axle that needs it for an agile drive that’s pure pleasure.

Thus, either the A6 does use Haldex, or Audi's website had a typo. My Audi salesman also told me it uses Haldex, but that typically doesn't mean much.
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:03 PM
SteveinVT SteveinVT is offline
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I owned an A4Q and it was simply unstoppable with Blizzaks in the winter. We used ours as a ski car here in VT and it never let us down.

Quattro is a 100% solution for winter driving, but it makes for lame summer driving (understeer anyone?). X-drive is a 95% solution for winter, but virtually disappears during aggressive summer driving.
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:17 PM
mercury26 mercury26 is offline
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The A6 absolutely does NOT use Haldex, it is a Torsen based system. The only Audi's that use Haldex are the TT and A3, which are based on the transverse engine mounted VW Golf platform. The Audi site must have had a typo and your Audi sales guy misinformed you.

Cheers,

Chuck
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