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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #26  
Old 10-31-2007, 04:34 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
According to the latest C&D article:
BMW says the 135i scoots to 60 mph in 5.3 seconds, but we expect it to at least match the 335i coupe’s 4.9-second run to 60 mph, and 13.6-second quarter-mile.
I can understand why they wouldn't want to advertise their newer, cheaper 1 series as quicker than their precious 3 series, but come on!
One of those inscrutable corporate decisions......probably the middle ground between marketing, engineering, and legal. "Trust me....I know what I'm doing."
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2007, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 320what? View Post
To trick Audi and Mercedes owners.
This practice is not exclusive to BMW and is nothing new with German cars. VW/Audi is notorious for doing this as well. Most of the time it's done in order to avoid competing with their own models (which may be priced higher).

The GTI 1.8T of a few years back had about 20-30 more HP than the 180 advertised by the brochures. This was proven on the Dyno over and over.
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  #28  
Old 11-01-2007, 05:41 AM
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  #29  
Old 11-03-2007, 07:19 PM
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Why are you thinking about our weenies?
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  #30  
Old 11-03-2007, 07:22 PM
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What incentive do they have? Overestimate and people will be upset if the car doesn't meet expectations. In the US, I'm sure, you'd also be hit with lawsuits. Underestimate and you avoid that problem.

0-60 is a worthless arbitrary measure which is just used to sell cars, anyhow. How often do you go from 0-60 mph from a dead stop at full throttle, even in a car you bought entirely for fun? Thought so.
Just about every time I enter a highway onramp, or have pole position at a light. It's not like a can do quarter mile runs everyday and still keep my liscense.
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  #31  
Old 11-03-2007, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Motown328 View Post
135i in the low 4's and I think I'd suffocate myself.

Because I'd have 5 tickets in the first week of ownership. One reason why I don't have an M3. I wouldn't be able to control myself.
According to Car and Driver- the performance difference between the current 335i and the E46 M3 is almost impossible to tell. Since the 135i is lighter than the 335i, you have to assume that it will be a bit quicker than an E46 M3.
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  #32  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:12 AM
The`Garrett The`Garrett is offline
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
According to the latest C&D article:
BMW says the 135i scoots to 60 mph in 5.3 seconds, but we expect it to at least match the 335i coupe’s 4.9-second run to 60 mph, and 13.6-second quarter-mile.
I can understand why they wouldn't want to advertise their newer, cheaper 1 series as quicker than their precious 3 series, but come on!
Because the 1 series isn't targeted at the more luxurous and elegant 3 series. It's more spartan and performance orientated!
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  #33  
Old 11-06-2007, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
According to Car and Driver- the performance difference between the current 335i and the E46 M3 is almost impossible to tell. Since the 135i is lighter than the 335i, you have to assume that it will be a bit quicker than an E46 M3.

I am hoping this is the case.
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  #34  
Old 11-09-2007, 06:10 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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Thumbs down

100lbs = .1 second!?!?! Are you smoking crack? So you are saying that if I remove 500lbs from a 335 I will suddenly have a 0-60 .5 seconds faster? What about the limits of the tires and the effect the weight has on allowing a quick hookup? If I remove my doors, seats and strip the car will I be able to get a 0-60 in under 4 seconds? NO. Not with an open rear. There is a point of diminishing returns.

And since there hasn't been any testing it is pointless to speculate. BMW may have geared it differently for better fuel economy and you may end up with a SLOWER time. Every review I have looked at says the suspension is set up for a comfy ride with pronounced understeer. Who cares what it does in a quarter mile if it handles like trash. If I was going to have a quick drag car I would go buy a GTO. 400 hp with a nice big interior and the ability to smoke any BMW besides a M6 in a straight line.

I was never honestly interested in the 1 series because I think it was smacked with an ugly stick but I would have at least considered it if it was light weight and good handling. Too bad it is heavy (only 100 lbs lighter than a 3???) and supposedly understeers like a Civic. It is funny to watch the 1 lovers cry.
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  #35  
Old 11-09-2007, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
100lbs = .1 second!?!?! Are you smoking crack? So you are saying that if I remove 500lbs from a 335 I will suddenly have a 0-60 .5 seconds faster? What about the limits of the tires and the effect the weight has on allowing a quick hookup? If I remove my doors, seats and strip the car will I be able to get a 0-60 in under 4 seconds? NO. Not with an open rear. There is a point of diminishing returns.

And since there hasn't been any testing it is pointless to speculate. BMW may have geared it differently for better fuel economy and you may end up with a SLOWER time. Every review I have looked at says the suspension is set up for a comfy ride with pronounced understeer. Who cares what it does in a quarter mile if it handles like trash. If I was going to have a quick drag car I would go buy a GTO. 400 hp with a nice big interior and the ability to smoke any BMW besides a M6 in a straight line.

I was never honestly interested in the 1 series because I think it was smacked with an ugly stick but I would have at least considered it if it was light weight and good handling. Too bad it is heavy (only 100 lbs lighter than a 3???) and supposedly understeers like a Civic. It is funny to watch the 1 lovers cry.

Ooh, you're angry.

Yes, the 1-series is going to handle like crap and be slow.
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  #36  
Old 11-09-2007, 07:29 PM
BlackJetE90 BlackJetE90 is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
100lbs = .1 second!?!?! Are you smoking crack? So you are saying that if I remove 500lbs from a 335 I will suddenly have a 0-60 .5 seconds faster? What about the limits of the tires and the effect the weight has on allowing a quick hookup? If I remove my doors, seats and strip the car will I be able to get a 0-60 in under 4 seconds? NO. Not with an open rear. There is a point of diminishing returns.

And since there hasn't been any testing it is pointless to speculate. BMW may have geared it differently for better fuel economy and you may end up with a SLOWER time. Every review I have looked at says the suspension is set up for a comfy ride with pronounced understeer. Who cares what it does in a quarter mile if it handles like trash. If I was going to have a quick drag car I would go buy a GTO. 400 hp with a nice big interior and the ability to smoke any BMW besides a M6 in a straight line.

I was never honestly interested in the 1 series because I think it was smacked with an ugly stick but I would have at least considered it if it was light weight and good handling. Too bad it is heavy (only 100 lbs lighter than a 3???) and supposedly understeers like a Civic. It is funny to watch the 1 lovers cry.
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Sound a little angry that the 135i might out-perform the 335i. And if you think its not going to you will be in for a surprise.

Not to mention the current 3-series isn't exactly the best handling car either, not the best 3-series chassis ever built.

I unlike others I like the E92 styling, but the E90 rear is hideous.
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  #37  
Old 11-10-2007, 04:57 PM
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germanblood germanblood is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
100lbs = .1 second!?!?! Are you smoking crack? So you are saying that if I remove 500lbs from a 335 I will suddenly have a 0-60 .5 seconds faster? What about the limits of the tires and the effect the weight has on allowing a quick hookup? If I remove my doors, seats and strip the car will I be able to get a 0-60 in under 4 seconds? NO. Not with an open rear. There is a point of diminishing returns.

And since there hasn't been any testing it is pointless to speculate. BMW may have geared it differently for better fuel economy and you may end up with a SLOWER time. Every review I have looked at says the suspension is set up for a comfy ride with pronounced understeer. Who cares what it does in a quarter mile if it handles like trash. If I was going to have a quick drag car I would go buy a GTO. 400 hp with a nice big interior and the ability to smoke any BMW besides a M6 in a straight line.

I was never honestly interested in the 1 series because I think it was smacked with an ugly stick but I would have at least considered it if it was light weight and good handling. Too bad it is heavy (only 100 lbs lighter than a 3???) and supposedly understeers like a Civic. It is funny to watch the 1 lovers cry.
Why are you even on this site if you hate the 1 so much?- go waste other people's time on the GTO forums! If you guys think this is going to be a slow car, I suggest you put down the crack pipe.
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  #38  
Old 11-10-2007, 05:38 PM
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a review from those who thought the 135i was definetely not slow:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...35i/index.html
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  #39  
Old 11-11-2007, 02:14 PM
BlackJetE90 BlackJetE90 is offline
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
Why are you even on this site if you hate the 1 so much?- go waste other people's time on the GTO forums! If you guys think this is going to be a slow car, I suggest you put down the crack pipe.
Yah, I know germanblood.

I love when people bring up the GTO, it gives me a good laugh. Big V8 in a poor build quality car.

The new M3 kills the GTO and the M3 has two full less liters.

Car & Driver times

M3- 4.0 liter 0-60 4.3 sec.

GTO- 6.0 liter 0-60 4.8 sec.

Enough said, silly American cars. Stuffing a big V8 into a crappy car isn't all the answers.
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  #40  
Old 11-11-2007, 07:38 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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I am not a huge fan of the GTO, i just said if you primary concern is a 0-60 then anything BMW makes is a very poor choice. They make excellent cruising cars but the 3 series and 1 series are not serious sports cars. Sport touring. The GTO is the same thing but can be used a respectable drag car.

THere is no way you can compare a GTO to a M3. Sure, the GTO gives up two liters of displacement but due to the gearing it also gets high 20s on the highway. And costs 35K LESS than an M3. Comparing the two is like racing your 1 series vs. a Cayman S and wondering why it keeps lapping you.

The one nice thing about excessive displacement like in a GTO is that you don't need a 8000 Redline to get power.

I am not defending the GTO for all of its shortcomings but you want to use the rule tool for the job and a GTO/big american displacement is it for a drag strip.
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  #41  
Old 11-11-2007, 07:56 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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"Chassis balance is one of our few complaints, as the 135i is plagued by tire-howling understeer"

All I need to say.

If I wanted a heavy, understeering car I would drive a FWD Acura TL. It only weighs 3482lbs!!! And it's four doors!

If I was looking for a smaller, quick car I would get a Mazdaspeed 3. Sure it is FWD and understeers but the 1 series understeers too. And it only weighs 3100 lbs while costing TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS less. Why? It does give up 40 hp and 20 ftlbs. And it is missing the little blue roundel.

I personally would spend the extra 12K on driving schools and protitutes. Since I obviously wouldn't be getting any due to the badge on m car

I am just a bit pissed at BMW because it seems like all they did was throw an old European chassis at us with a big engine strapped on with no thought towards saving weight. And they say americans are lazy. The 1 is a pig.
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  #42  
Old 11-11-2007, 08:44 PM
BlackJetE90 BlackJetE90 is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
The one nice thing about excessive displacement like in a GTO is that you don't need a 8000 Redline to get power.

That is what makes the M3 V8 so good, the high-revving nature. It is one of the best engines to come out of Munich.
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  #43  
Old 11-11-2007, 09:49 PM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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Good is relative. How much are they charging for it? Say what you will about an american v8, it is cheap and dependable. HP/liter is one measure of an engine. But since I don't crap gold bars another important one would be HP/$$ or HP/lb

Think of it this way, the new M3 with all of its technology, get 420/295 and weighs 445lbs. A pushrod LS2 gets 400/400 and weighs....450lbs!

Not that the new M3 engine isn't great and i am sure will make a great track engine. But how did the old M3 engine handle all that high revving? Oh yea, it blew up.

And an LS2 only costs 5.5K!

A better comparision price wise might be an LS7 dry sump with 505/495. That only weighs 460lbs. But that 15lbs buys you 200ft lbs and 85hp. I can guarentee there is no way to get an M3 to those numbers without forced induction. The LS7 will cost 13K but do you think the M3 engine is going to be cheaper?

I just think BMW is pushing the brand into a heavier, luxury catagory and abondoning the lightweight and sporty roots. An M3 that weighs 3600+?!? Blasphemy!

Instead of adding technology and horsepower they should try adding some lightness.
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  #44  
Old 11-12-2007, 01:00 AM
LonghornTX LonghornTX is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
100lbs = .1 second!?!?! Are you smoking crack? So you are saying that if I remove 500lbs from a 335 I will suddenly have a 0-60 .5 seconds faster? What about the limits of the tires and the effect the weight has on allowing a quick hookup? If I remove my doors, seats and strip the car will I be able to get a 0-60 in under 4 seconds? NO. Not with an open rear. There is a point of diminishing returns.

And since there hasn't been any testing it is pointless to speculate. BMW may have geared it differently for better fuel economy and you may end up with a SLOWER time. Every review I have looked at says the suspension is set up for a comfy ride with pronounced understeer. Who cares what it does in a quarter mile if it handles like trash. If I was going to have a quick drag car I would go buy a GTO. 400 hp with a nice big interior and the ability to smoke any BMW besides a M6 in a straight line.

I was never honestly interested in the 1 series because I think it was smacked with an ugly stick but I would have at least considered it if it was light weight and good handling. Too bad it is heavy (only 100 lbs lighter than a 3???) and supposedly understeers like a Civic. It is funny to watch the 1 lovers cry.
Is someone a bit angry that his 335i will now be toppled by the 135i in performance?
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  #45  
Old 11-12-2007, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
"Chassis balance is one of our few complaints, as the 135i is plagued by tire-howling understeer"

All I need to say.

If I wanted a heavy, understeering car I would drive a FWD Acura TL. It only weighs 3482lbs!!! And it's four doors!
It's an unfortunate fact of life that a car with 300 hp for the mainstream buyer, needs to understeer from the factory. The difference here is that on a 135i you can swap out the 215/255 tires to 235s all around, and I'd guess that understeer will go away.

Getting rid of understeer on a TL is going to be a lot tougher.

I agree that the 135i is heavy, and is not the car that enthusiasts are hoping for. You may still get that car from BMW, as the tii concept suggests.
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  #46  
Old 11-12-2007, 06:46 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Originally Posted by germanblood View Post
Just about every time I enter a highway onramp, or have pole position at a light. It's not like a can do quarter mile runs everyday and still keep my liscense.
You enter an onramp from a dead stop (and only reach 60)?

I think the measure you're probably looking for is the 5-60 rolling/street start (which, without the aid of a tire smoking launch, is often much slower than 0-60). I can't imagine your clutch, transmission or drive axle guibos would be in very good shape otherwise.

Some of the serious European rags often provide what they call "engine flexibility" charts when reviewing a particular car. This chart will show how fast a car will accelerate from one speed to another (e.g. 50-70 mph) while in a single gear, and will list the times for a variety of gears. It's much more informative for the sake of regular street driving, I think, than 0-60 or even quarter mile.
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  #47  
Old 11-12-2007, 07:50 AM
guenelin guenelin is offline
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BMW's data puts the 335 slower than C&D, it's C&D's own internal figures that put the 335 at 4.9

Other magazines got in the 5.1-5.4 range (for the 335).
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  #48  
Old 11-12-2007, 10:40 AM
fastjack fastjack is offline
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Didn't Car & Driver acknowledge that their 335 had significantly more boost pressure than any other stock 335s they found? IIRC, they went out and found a regular guy with a new 335i and its 0-60 was closer to the official specs. Of course right now I can't find the stupid article, but I feel certain it was C&D...

Edit: Nope, I was wrong, it was Edmunds...
They found that their car had at least .5psi more than the other car (which was still beating BMW's claims, btw!).

Last edited by fastjack; 11-12-2007 at 11:05 AM.
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  #49  
Old 11-12-2007, 03:07 PM
BlackJetE90 BlackJetE90 is offline
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Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
Good is relative. How much are they charging for it? Say what you will about an american v8, it is cheap and dependable. HP/liter is one measure of an engine. But since I don't crap gold bars another important one would be HP/$$ or HP/lb

Think of it this way, the new M3 with all of its technology, get 420/295 and weighs 445lbs. A pushrod LS2 gets 400/400 and weighs....450lbs!

Not that the new M3 engine isn't great and i am sure will make a great track engine. But how did the old M3 engine handle all that high revving? Oh yea, it blew up.

And an LS2 only costs 5.5K!

A better comparision price wise might be an LS7 dry sump with 505/495. That only weighs 460lbs. But that 15lbs buys you 200ft lbs and 85hp. I can guarentee there is no way to get an M3 to those numbers without forced induction. The LS7 will cost 13K but do you think the M3 engine is going to be cheaper?

I just think BMW is pushing the brand into a heavier, luxury catagory and abondoning the lightweight and sporty roots. An M3 that weighs 3600+?!? Blasphemy!

Instead of adding technology and horsepower they should try adding some lightness.

M3 V8 - 4.0 liters 414 hp, 103.5 hp per liter.

LS7 - 7.0 liters 505 hp, 72.14 hp per liter.

The new M3 V8 is 33 pounds lighter than the out-going straight six M3 engine.

These engines are built with two different philosophies, LS7 brute force muscle car engine and the M3 V8 is a high-revving F1 inspired engine.

Don't you think if BMW decided to use a large displacement V8 they would make huge HP numbers?

More impressive brute force muscle V8 is the 6.2 liter in the S63 and CL63, 518 hp output.
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  #50  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:25 AM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
M3 V8 - 4.0 liters 414 hp, 103.5 hp per liter.

LS7 - 7.0 liters 505 hp, 72.14 hp per liter.

The new M3 V8 is 33 pounds lighter than the out-going straight six M3 engine.

These engines are built with two different philosophies, LS7 brute force muscle car engine and the M3 V8 is a high-revving F1 inspired engine.

Don't you think if BMW decided to use a large displacement V8 they would make huge HP numbers?

More impressive brute force muscle V8 is the 6.2 liter in the S63 and CL63, 518 hp output.
You missed my point completely BlackJetE90. I was not arguing the technical superiority of the M3 engine. I was arguing there is no POINT for the high tech engine. While it is great that that M3 V8 is 33 pounds lighter than the straight six that only means that the inline six was a complete pig. It does not change the fact that the LS2 only weighs 5 lbs more and delivers MORE power. At any point on the curve the LS2 will put out more torque and more horsepower until you reach the LS2's redline.

Everyone seems to be so interested in the HP/liter value when that only matters in a world where every other variable is ignored. I would argue that the weight, size and the COST of the engine are all all important if not more important. A "brute force muscle car engine" is comparable in weight and size while enjoying MORE power for LESS money. The only reason to go with the high tech engine is if you really have more money than brains or absolutely need to rev to 8K.

And if you think you need a high revving engine to compete in autosports check out the Audi R10 that just set the record at Lemans. Torque is good. Displacement is good.

One last thing the LS2 beats the M3 in:

2006 M3: 16/23 MPG
GTO: 17/25 MPG

Do you think a V8 and a heavier car are going to IMPROVE the M3's fuel economy?

I just wish I could put an LS2 in my 335i. And the LSD. And about -800 pounds of lightness.
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