Calling all Touring owners

Touring

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Franklin-Rear-...QQcmdZViewItem


X5


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Franklin-Rear-...QQcmdZViewItem

with the USD so weak these must seem very expensive....

adam

Toolbox37 is who sent me the response I quoted above

He is prohibited from shipping to the US by Franklin, the mfg.

Will have to work through Baum / ZDMak or BMW to see if the tool is available in the US to "NON-dealer / repair shop" individuals.

as of a few months ago, zdmak said that they have no plans to build an E39 subframe bushing replacement tool. Perhaps things have changed?

For the sake of completeness, here's another thread on the same problem. http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=726037. It appears this is more common than I'd realized.

Yep, small world here. I bought the set of bushings that Todor had to pay for when he brought it to the first shop.

Also, I did buy about $100 worth of nuts/bolts/washers and structural channel (unistrut), from which I think I can piece together a tool. If it works, I'll post pix, a list of materials, and would be glad to sell the tool to the next person.

Of course, if it doesn't work, I'll bitch to you guys as my car is hauled on a flatbed to a BMW dealer...

who's excited???

(can you see the BMW E39 Subframe Bushing Removal / Install Tool in this picture? couple of parts missing, a little cutting and a touch of welding required... stay tuned...)

Originally Posted by cpatstone

who's excited???

(can you see the BMW E39 Subframe Bushing Removal / Install Tool in this picture? couple of parts missing, a little cutting and a touch of welding required... stay tuned...)

Nice!

Cpat: Look great!

Originally Posted by cpatstone

FYI, a while back, pelicanparts listed a tool that would do the E39 wagons. First it wasn't available, then maybe, then they said that they weren't sure if it would work but they'd let me try. Mfr of the tool was SIR Tools. Anyway, it didn't work, and I got my $400 back. Sure was a nice tool. Can post pix if anyone is interested.

How come it didn't work ? Do you have a pic ? The bush is no bigger than found on something like a X5.

I've got a cheapish Chinese made 3 legged bearing puller ( £50 GBP ) and its got a simple hydraulic ram as the pressing spindle. Incredibly it can exert 10 tons pressure.I'm sure someone with an engineering back ground could fabricate a cheap hydraulic tool. A bolt and spindle method is pre 1800 technology ! My guess is most BMW dealers Stateside don't use the tool shown in Bentley or have the superior Klann system but remove the whole subframe and take it to the shop hydraulic press.This would explain the very high labor quotes you guys are having inflicted on you ! The BMW TIS shows the job done in situ as per the Bently manual. The factory should start removing franchises from US dealers who don't keep up to date with tools !



adam

Originally Posted by cpatstone

who's excited???

(can you see the BMW E39 Subframe Bushing Removal / Install Tool in this picture? couple of parts missing, a little cutting and a touch of welding required... stay tuned...)

Looks like it should work as long as the thread is good and strong ?

adam

This has been done:

Instead of the washers to push the bushings out, plumbers end caps were used. The couplings were used as the guide....instead of the boxed design in the pix. I'd suggest a hardened steel thread, and the end caps for the tool pictured above.....don't think the washers, even stacked, will hold their shape under the pressure.

I have a 1999 528it nonsport non airbag/self leveling suspension.
After installing installed blister HD's in the front and bilstien sports in the rear. The car would bounce like a basket ball when it was driven over speed bumps and dip in the road. On the highway I could feel the car floating more. I inspected the four sub frame bushing and found that they were all cracked up. I was able to purchase the bushing from the dealer for a $67 each. The price was not bad. However the Tool to remove and install these bushing was expensive. I have seen prices from ~$365 to $500. So as DIYer I went to the pluming supply and brought (1) two inch metal treaded cap (1) 3inch cap, (1) 4inch coupling, 3ft 5/8 tread from home depot , 5/8 washers and 8 5/8 nuts all for $120. The most expensive piece was the 4 inch coupling $60.00. The 2inch cap fit the top of the bushing perfectly. I use my big jack under the diff to support the sub frame while I undo the four bolts that go through the bushing. I also remove the bottom bolts from the shocks. After that I slowly lowered the jack under the diff until there was enough room for the 2 inch cap and treaded rod through the cap with enough room to twist on a nut.When I started the repair I discovered that I need another 4inch coupling so I went looking in my yard for the piece of cast iron drain pipe that I had cut out a year ago. I found it and went back to work on taking the bushing out. At first the bushing would not move while I tighten up nut on the bottom of the treaded rod. My experience tells me I need to heat the bushing," VERY SCARY" but it must be done. I use a plumbing kit torch that got from home depot. I only heated the top of the bushing until it started bumbling. I did not want any fire nor did I not want to melt the aluminum sub frame. I use a piece of sheet metal to shield the gas tank when I heated up the forward bushing. After 5 hours I was done with the repair. The bushing installed easy. They were hard coming out. I have driven over 600 miles after this repair and the wagon drives like my 1974 bmw 2002. I can push it around corner with confident. The car is very stable and predictable at high speed > 80mgh. So far this is the most important repair I have made since owning this car for 2 years. The next thing to do is to replace the rear sway bar with the M5 type.
Reply With Quote

The thing I just don't get -- and maybe I'm just thick -- is how the pipe cap setup gets around the big bottom section of the mount and catches the barrel section of the subframe?

The SIR Tools one works similarly to the one I'm proposing, except SIR's is clearly much nicer looking. Here's a pic. As you can see, the big wide part below where the subframe would go, isn't accounted for in this design. Also, the T-sections on top of the posts wouldn't work in this app:



Strength issues on my setup: the middle threaded rod is 5/8-8 acme threaded rod. ACME because it's better for load carrying; more appropriate for a screw press application than standard threaded rod. The one I ordered is plain steel, and should be good for about 9600 lbs minimum in tension. The washers are 1/4" thick, and I know that's not obvious in the picture. I think that the unistrut will be the weakest link... but it's all babble until the setup works.

Just FYI... if any of you sedan drivers are wondering what it looks like installed:

Originally Posted by cpatstone

The thing I just don't get -- and maybe I'm just thick -- is how the pipe cap setup gets around the big bottom section of the mount and catches the barrel section of the subframe?

The SIR Tools one works similarly to the one I'm proposing, except SIR's is clearly much nicer looking. Here's a pic. As you can see, the big wide part below where the subframe would go, isn't accounted for in this design. Also, the T-sections on top of the posts wouldn't work in this app:



Strength issues on my setup: the middle threaded rod is 5/8-8 acme threaded rod. ACME because it's better for load carrying; more appropriate for a screw press application than standard threaded rod. The one I ordered is plain steel, and should be good for about 9600 lbs minimum in tension. The washers are 1/4" thick, and I know that's not obvious in the picture. I think that the unistrut will be the weakest link... but it's all babble until the setup works.

If you get it to work, I'll be first in line for the parts list. After having updated the font suspension and all shocks, the rear "movement" is noticeable, especially after going over a speed bump. Next summer, the rear end will need to be eval'ed and updated.

As for the other guy that found a way to do this, his post is on the bimmerforums E39 board, in which there is a link in one of the posts above. Without a picture or drawing, it's hard to picture.

How did you get a pic on the actual removal tool, I searched just about everywhere 4 or so months back and came up empty, with the exception of Klann (may have spelled that wrong....but to lazy to look up the name)?

I got a pic of the tool because I bought it. Pelican Parts sells them, or rather sold it. They had it listed in a catalog for a short while, as it turns out, by mistake. Pelican Parts (very helpful) allowed me to be a guinea pig for the tool... if it works, great; if not, they'll take it back and refund the $. Normally you can't return tools. I bought it, it clearly wasn't going to work, and they refunded the $. In the meantime, I made notes and took pix.

update: my cheapo stick welder + lack of skill = need to source a different bottom pusher disc thing, or find someone to do a little welding for me. Stay tuned.

Need to ping you guys for a couple of thoughts.

first, my install and removal tools are done. The removal tool is more questionable, but the install tool is pretty good.

The bentley manual says to pull the exhaust, then driveshaft, (etc) then use a special transmission jack stand adapter thing to support the differential, and lower the subframe away from the car. Lower it a couple of inches, then use the BMW bushing tools (mine should work).

Questions:
member BEY didn't say he pulled the exhaust or driveshaft. I'm not worried about the exhaust. What about the driveshaft though? The CV joint at the end of the driveshaft allows for some front-back movement. If I lower the subframe, it might pull on that? what if I do? likelihood of damaging it?

I wonder what tensions/forces will be on the subframe when it's being lowered. Support the middle, remove the four bolts, then lower it. OK, after I raise it back into position, how tough will it be to get the bolts lined up?

Another way to do this might be to buy four very long metric bolts. The procedure would then be, jack up the middle of the subframe, remove one bushing bolt, then thread in this long stud. repeat for other three. Lower it to the right height. remove a stud, do the bushing swap. this should keep things in alignment... sound reasonable?

Hope some of that makes sense... help/advice appreciated. If I can manage to do this, all will be documented as a DIY procedure.

What a fantastic, knowledge-filled thread. Thank you to all who posted detailed photos and descriptions. I learned a lot here. I do feel that the front end of my Dinan-suspension equipped '03 540iT sport handles a lot better than the rear end...but from what I learned here it does not appear that there is anything I can really do to improve it short of removing the useful auto-levelling feature and going back to a traditional coil spring. I only have 40K miles on my car but it is nearing 5 years old so I should probably check for wear on the bushings.

Big x, do you have any more high quality shots like the two you posted showing the geometry of the rear subframe and suspension? I can't get enough of those - any part of the car (or any E39, E36 M3, and E46 cabrio) - if so I would be happy to provide my e-mail address if you can send them along. I'm saving them all for future reference.

I personally would say it's probably your rear bushes that need checking and not the air bags. But if they we're gone the handling would be poor and you would hear some squeaky sounds too.

My rear airbag has just gone too on christmas eve.
regards
bains540

For those interested in my DIY solution -
I ordered the threaded rod today, for the theory that I jack up the rear end of the car, pull the wheels, jack up on the subframe (differential), replace the four subframe bolts with threaded rod, put nuts on the rods about 1" below where the heads of the bolts were, then let off on the subframe-supporting jack.

So... still looking for suggestions on what that'll do to the driveshaft CV joint??? anyone have any idea how much travel that has?

Originally Posted by cpatstone

For those interested in my DIY solution -
I ordered the threaded rod today, for the theory that I jack up the rear end of the car, pull the wheels, jack up on the subframe (differential), replace the four subframe bolts with threaded rod, put nuts on the rods about 1" below where the heads of the bolts were, then let off on the subframe-supporting jack.

So... still looking for suggestions on what that'll do to the driveshaft CV joint??? anyone have any idea how much travel that has?

I've read a bunch of threads on the bushings, and you are the first to mention the driveshaft CV joint. My guess, lower and see what happens. The other poster, that was successful, didn't mention it either, so I have a feeling the tolerance is good enough to lower it enough to remove the bushings without damage.

FYI......very interested in how this turns out and really want a writeup. Thanx in advance.

I am also having the same problems with the rear suspension on my 99 528iT w 147k miles and am very eager to see how your tool works out. Don't forget to put some Dawn dish detergent on the new bushing to ease the installation.

I put the car in the air last weekend and inspected all of the other bushings. The rear lower control arm bushings were torn. So it might be a good idea to check the rest of the rear suspension or do some PM and replace the rest of the suspension while you are under there. I realize that takes a lot of $ for the parts and another tool to remove the rear ball joints (which is why I am dealing with the annoying oscilation at this point) and by that point you might as well drop the rear subframe. Hopefully by the summer I'll have enough $ to fix the wagon (as long as the race car holds together)

Originally Posted by Redshift

What a fantastic, knowledge-filled thread. Thank you to all who posted detailed photos and descriptions. I learned a lot here. I do feel that the front end of my Dinan-suspension equipped '03 540iT sport handles a lot better than the rear end...but from what I learned here it does not appear that there is anything I can really do to improve it short of removing the useful auto-levelling feature and going back to a traditional coil spring. I only have 40K miles on my car but it is nearing 5 years old so I should probably check for wear on the bushings.

Big x, do you have any more high quality shots like the two you posted showing the geometry of the rear subframe and suspension? I can't get enough of those - any part of the car (or any E39, E36 M3, and E46 cabrio) - if so I would be happy to provide my e-mail address if you can send them along. I'm saving them all for future reference.

I don't have any more suspension pics but make sure you look through this thread which has subframe photos and shots of the body mounting points.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=210794&page=3

adam

Originally Posted by cpatstone

For those interested in my DIY solution -
I ordered the threaded rod today, for the theory that I jack up the rear end of the car, pull the wheels, jack up on the subframe (differential), replace the four subframe bolts with threaded rod, put nuts on the rods about 1" below where the heads of the bolts were, then let off on the subframe-supporting jack.

So... still looking for suggestions on what that'll do to the driveshaft CV joint??? anyone have any idea how much travel that has?

The indie who did my bushes did not touch the drive shafts.

adam

Awesome thread, thanks everyone.

I don't get the bounce, but I do get a significant crash in the rear on relatively small bumps

Hello to all...

New poster to this forum but a long-time lurker. So much great info and enthusiasm here, I hope to continue helping when I can.

Just got off the phone with Skip from Baum Tools.

They have a new tool made for doing this rear subframe mount bushing r+r.
Tool is B334150, he quoted me $450.00 for the cost.
Baum is located in Sarasota, FL.
Phone them at 800-848-6657.

Unfortunately, this tool is so new, it is not in their online catalog.

My 99540iTS has 145K on it and needs this done but I'm not yet sure if iI will do this or continue looking for an indy in my area.

My local BMW dealer quoted me 8hrs labor for this! This is of course after I made sure they had the correct BMW tool to do this job. Nice!

'Til Next Time...

Tom