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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #1  
Old 11-20-2007, 01:27 PM
fastjack fastjack is offline
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Weight debate

135i weight: 3373
335i weight: 3571
Difference: 198lbs (This has been discussed, obviously not a groundbreaking difference)

Question - the 335i comes with standard power seats. If you option the 135 with power seats, then what will the weight difference be? Closer to 100lbs? I am still holding out interest in the 135 but I didn't realize the difference was really that minuscule until i considered the seats.

I guess that's not really a question so much as an open-ended wtf?
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2007, 01:49 PM
hector hector is offline
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Originally Posted by fastjack View Post
135i weight: 3373
335i weight: 3571
Difference: 198lbs (This has been discussed, obviously not a groundbreaking difference)

Question - the 335i comes with standard power seats. If you option the 135 with power seats, then what will the weight difference be? Closer to 100lbs? I am still holding out interest in the 135 but I didn't realize the difference was really that minuscule until i considered the seats.

I guess that's not really a question so much as an open-ended wtf?
the issue of how much do power seats weigh was discussed at 1addicts.com. if you search i'm sure that you'll be able to find it. i'd give you the quick answer if i could remember it.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2007, 07:29 AM
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A car is basically a shell - it's the contents that make up the weight. The 135i is basically a 335i in a smaller shell, so there's not gonna be that much weight loss.

I remember hearing also that the 1 series is also using some steel components where the 3 series uses aluminum. Dunno if that's true.
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Will_325i Will_325i is offline
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From BMW's perspective, how can they make the 1 series much lighter if it's based on the 3 series?

They would have to engineer a smaller chassis from scratch, is there enough market demand for that?

Would it have the safety ratings ppl "demand" (rightly or wrongly) ?

Would insurance companies make it not worth the hassle for too many ppl?

Since most drivers aren't enthusiasts, car companies focus on a chassis that's large and safe, therby leaving those who want a light chassis in the lurch. Even if a company DOES design such a car, its sales volume and exclusivity would push the price up beyond many people's budget. (like mine)

I have some hope that economies of scale on stability control will bring back RWD in a larger number of vehicle types. (Isn't GM undergoing a RWD revolution?). Hopefully that can trickle down to the more price and engineering-sensitive platforms (small cars). Hopefully a FEW of these future volume platforms will have a high-power option so that I can finally have a lightweight, affordable, powerful car.
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  #5  
Old 11-21-2007, 12:37 PM
hector hector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_325i View Post
...

I have some hope that economies of scale on stability control will bring back RWD in a larger number of vehicle types. (Isn't GM undergoing a RWD revolution?). Hopefully that can trickle down to the more price and engineering-sensitive platforms (small cars). Hopefully a FEW of these future volume platforms will have a high-power option so that I can finally have a lightweight, affordable, powerful car.
supposedly, nissan and toyota are developing small and inexpensive rwd cars, a la the defunct 240sx, for near future production.
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2007, 07:25 PM
mkaresh mkaresh is offline
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Could be worse: the official ordering guide stickied above lists the curb weight as 3,732 lbs. Obviously a typo, since the automatic is listed as 3,384 lbs. But you'd think they'd catch something like that when proofreading.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:05 PM
MartinBlank MartinBlank is offline
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rear seat space debate?

Along the lines of weight, I have a question about size...

I've been assuming that the 135 cabin is smaller than the 335 coupe. However, I was just browsing the official brochures for both cars, and the dimensions listed for each imply that the 135 has the larger back seat.

From the brochure, the end section with the dimensional schematic shows the backseat width and height for the 135 is 55.0 and 37.1 inches, respectively. The 335 lists 51.9 inches for back seat width and 36.8 inches for height.

Am I missing something? Or is it just how the backseat is packaged? Has anyone sat in the backseat of a 135 that could comment on roominess relative to the E92?



But who really cares about the back seat? Well, in addition to my spirited mountain road daily commute, I frequently find myself as the driver at lunch time for 3 of my colleagues, so it would be a minor perk to have a bigger cabin than the 335 coupe.
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:33 PM
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The 1'er has been around for a time in europe, it's not a new car.

It's mission was as an entry-level BMW and was (is) sold as a five door hatch.

As an entry-level car, it didn't get the benefit of the same expensive weight-saving engineering the larger 3 and 5 got.

Unfortunately, it was never intended to hold the extra power and torque of the heavier twin-turbo engine, this necessitated even more structural reinforcement, hence the extra weight - heavy engine, heavier structure.

Considering the fact a well-equipped 135i will weigh and cost almost as much as a 335 (and more than a 328) gives me great pause and sets my "this-car-is-baloney" detection meter into overdrive.

Ed
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  #9  
Old 11-26-2007, 02:04 AM
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BMW could have made something so much better if they truly kept their aim on the rebirth of the 2002. A car the size of the 128i, without any unnecessary frills could easily weigh in the 2500lb range. I'm talking no power seats, no 45lb moonroof, no 150lbs of sound insulation, etc... The only power options the car really needs in order to sell are power windows and door locks. They add a combined 25lbs to the car.
Anyway, there is no rational reason that this car weighs as much as it does, and I really think that sucks.
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:20 AM
josko josko is offline
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It'll be interesting to see how long they can sell it at MSRP beyond the first round of suckers.
What really bugs me that they stuck a heavier 6 into a chassis made for a 4 and apparentyly did little about the resultant understeer.
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2007, 07:48 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipWOT View Post
BMW could have made something so much better if they truly kept their aim on the rebirth of the 2002. A car the size of the 128i, without any unnecessary frills could easily weigh in the 2500lb range. I'm talking no power seats, no 45lb moonroof, no 150lbs of sound insulation, etc... The only power options the car really needs in order to sell are power windows and door locks. They add a combined 25lbs to the car.
Anyway, there is no rational reason that this car weighs as much as it does, and I really think that sucks.
Even though we'd both like the car as you've described it, I think we can also both agree that the necessary compromises would never be tolerated by the bulk of the US buyer market. No leather, no power seats, no slushotronic transmission, no Super Big Gulp cup holders?! Forget it; if it's not a Lexus/Buick in disguise, I don't want it!

I'd actually be somewhat happy with a basic 1 series as it comes in Europe (i.e. 120d/123d with cloth seats, six speed standard shift trans, manual A/C controls), but even that is a stretch.

What this car really needs is a turbo four making 200-something hp and weighing in at around 3000-3100 lbs with driver. Such an engine would provide a great compromise between power and fuel economy without weighing down the rest of the chassis with a heavy cylinder block and bulky drivetrain components.
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Last edited by akhbhaat; 11-26-2007 at 07:54 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2007, 08:06 AM
hector hector is offline
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Originally Posted by hector View Post
supposedly, nissan and toyota are developing small and inexpensive rwd cars, a la the defunct 240sx, for near future production.
there's a little more info today at motorauthority.com re: a possible 240sx type vehicle reincarnation.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:50 AM
pilotman pilotman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
Even though we'd both like the car as you've described it, I think we can also both agree that the necessary compromises would never be tolerated by the bulk of the US buyer market. No leather, no power seats, no slushotronic transmission, no Super Big Gulp cup holders?! Forget it; if it's not a Lexus/Buick in disguise, I don't want it!

I'd actually be somewhat happy with a basic 1 series as it comes in Europe (i.e. 120d/123d with cloth seats, six speed standard shift trans, manual A/C controls), but even that is a stretch.

What this car really needs is a turbo four making 200-something hp and weighing in at around 3000-3100 lbs with driver. Such an engine would provide a great compromise between power and fuel economy without weighing down the rest of the chassis with a heavy cylinder block and bulky drivetrain components.
No one, other than you and a few internet car enthusiasts, wants the car you described. People buy cars for transportation, plain and simple.

Everyone talks a big game, but very few would actually want to buy such a vehicle, because they have families, or otherwise need some functionality.

For whatever reason, the American consumer loves to keep adding gadgets, and that trend won't stop. Plus, adding more crap is much more profitable for the automaker.

Why would BMW want to sell stripper 1 series cars, with cloth seats, a small motor and no luxury features? That wouldn't be nearly as profitable for them.
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2007, 06:09 AM
hector hector is offline
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[QUOTE=pilotman;2826631]

Why would BMW want to sell...1 series cars...with...a small motor...QUOTE]

do you have your own oil well and your own spare planet to go to when this one burns up?
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:08 AM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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Hmm... Audi A3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
(snip)
What this car really needs is a turbo four making 200-something hp and weighing in at around 3000-3100 lbs with driver. Such an engine would provide a great compromise between power and fuel economy without weighing down the rest of the chassis with a heavy cylinder block and bulky drivetrain components.
(snip)
Have you considered the Audi A3? It's a turbo inline 4 cylinder making 200 horsepower and is really fun to drive, especially with the manual transmission. It comfortably seats four with plenty of room for gear and gets very good mileage for a car this fun to drive. Oh, and it's a lot cheaper and IMO better looking than the 1-series.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:16 AM
Needagarage Needagarage is offline
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Small light weight cars don't NEED massive powerplants. Horsepower ratings might help sell cars but they have a definite drawback.

I am not sure about other 335i drivers out there but I am getting HORRIFIC city mileage. No heavy foot at all but with my manual I am getting about 15mpg in stop and go driving. Highway is still very good around 27-30mpg but stop and go is killing me. And the reason behind this is the excessive mass of the 3 series. Everytime I have to start moving i am pushign over 1.5 tons of metal.

It is silly to think there is no market for lighter weight cars with increased fuel economy. The only reason I got leather in my car was because cloth was not an option. (and leatherette is a crime against God) And do we really need 8 way power adjustable seats? Each of those things must weigh more than 120lbs.

If BMW was really looking to break into a new market they would have made the 1 series a cloth and 4 cyl car that had around 180-200HP,handled well (FELT nimble, not just high skid pad numbers), weigh under 2900 lbs and get 25/35mpg. Basically a mini that doesn't look like a mini. Unfortunately this is probably impossible since BMW doesn't currently sell a US spec 4 cylinder and doesn't have a lightweight chassis designed so it would be cost prohibitive.

So we get exactly fat Americans deserve: an old heavy chassis; a fuel guzzling twin turbo, leather and sound deadening everywhere and an MSRP of 35K. And BMW will laugh all the way to the bank.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
Small light weight cars don't NEED massive powerplants. Horsepower ratings might help sell cars but they have a definite drawback.

I am not sure about other 335i drivers out there but I am getting HORRIFIC city mileage. No heavy foot at all but with my manual I am getting about 15mpg in stop and go driving. Highway is still very good around 27-30mpg but stop and go is killing me. And the reason behind this is the excessive mass of the 3 series. Everytime I have to start moving i am pushign over 1.5 tons of metal.

It is silly to think there is no market for lighter weight cars with increased fuel economy. The only reason I got leather in my car was because cloth was not an option. (and leatherette is a crime against God) And do we really need 8 way power adjustable seats? Each of those things must weigh more than 120lbs.

If BMW was really looking to break into a new market they would have made the 1 series a cloth and 4 cyl car that had around 180-200HP,handled well (FELT nimble, not just high skid pad numbers), weigh under 2900 lbs and get 25/35mpg. Basically a mini that doesn't look like a mini. Unfortunately this is probably impossible since BMW doesn't currently sell a US spec 4 cylinder and doesn't have a lightweight chassis designed so it would be cost prohibitive.

So we get exactly fat Americans deserve: an old heavy chassis; a fuel guzzling twin turbo, leather and sound deadening everywhere and an MSRP of 35K. And BMW will laugh all the way to the bank.
Plus one!!

Bmw's Z4 does come in a "stripper" model with cloth interior - but these cars are priced too high for what they are.

Ed
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Old 11-27-2007, 11:28 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
Have you considered the Audi A3? It's a turbo inline 4 cylinder making 200 horsepower and is really fun to drive, especially with the manual transmission. It comfortably seats four with plenty of room for gear and gets very good mileage for a car this fun to drive. Oh, and it's a lot cheaper and IMO better looking than the 1-series.
Yes. I've wanted the S3 for a long time, ever since I once drove one in Europe.

If Audi produced that car with a RWD drivetrain and sold it in the US, there's no question that I would buy one. In fact, I'd also be happy with a diesel three door.

I did consider the A3 for a while, but the US-spec version has some problems. I'm not overly fond of the five door setup, but it's not a deal breaker. The primary problem is that you're forced to get FWD if you want a six speed manual. Quattro is only available with the 3.2L engine and an automatic transmission. Furthermore, you have to buy thousands of dollars worth in packages just to get HID headlights.

Ideally, I'd want a three door A3 with the 2.0T petrol or 2.0L turbodiesel and a six speed manual.

The other problem is that it doesn't offer much over my seven year old 323i. It's not all that much faster and it's not all that much more efficient, and, quite frankly, it's not as much fun to drive in standard trim (between the excellent stock steering feel and some of the modifications I've made, that aging car is tough to beat in that department).
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:55 PM
MartinBlank MartinBlank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
Have you considered the Audi A3? It's a turbo inline 4 cylinder making 200 horsepower and is really fun to drive, especially with the manual transmission. It comfortably seats four with plenty of room for gear and gets very good mileage for a car this fun to drive. Oh, and it's a lot cheaper and IMO better looking than the 1-series.
I have an Audi A3 2.0 DSG. It is a fantastic car. I highly recommend it. I've had it on Portland International Raceway twice, and I like to pretend it keeps up with the Caymans.

It is our family car, and my wife uses it for her daily commute, which actually gets better MPG than her old Corolla. However, I like my '97 328is better. It's so much lighter on it's feet...
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
Have you considered the Audi A3? It's a turbo inline 4 cylinder making 200 horsepower and is really fun to drive, especially with the manual transmission. It comfortably seats four with plenty of room for gear and gets very good mileage for a car this fun to drive. Oh, and it's a lot cheaper and IMO better looking than the 1-series.
We own an A3. It's not much fun to drive - certainly not when compared to either of my last two BMWs or my Cooper S.

It's roomy, feels nice and has really smooth power. Plus used they're a steal. But, the A3 is not a driver's car. By any means. Understeer is atrocious, plow is evident on most corners, the FWD layout spins the tires easily and overall it's not a very maneuverable car. Like the GTI, it's athletic enough for mundane driving or when compared to most generic american/japanese cars but against a BMW product, it's not even a contest.

Last edited by brkf; 11-28-2007 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:46 AM
akhbhaat akhbhaat is offline
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We own an A3. It's not much fun to drive - certainly not when compared to either of my last two BMWs or my Cooper S.

It's roomy, feels nice and has really smooth power. Plus used they're a steal. But, the A3 is not a driver's car. By any means. Understeer is atrocious, plow is evident on most corners, the FWD layout spins the tires easily and overall it's not a very maneuverable car. Like the GTI, it's athletic enough for mundane driving or when compared to most generic american/japanese cars but against a BMW product, it's not even a contest.
Exactly. I could justify it if were significantly faster and/or significantly more efficient than my E46, but it isn't. It's also FWD and quite a bit heavier. So, really, I'd just be giving up a lot of fun/driving feel for a change of scenery and the feeling of having a new or almost new car.

Since I'm not really hung up on the "new car" thing, it's not worth it.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post

The other problem is that it doesn't offer much over my seven year old 323i. It's not all that much faster and it's not all that much more efficient, and, quite frankly, it's not as much fun to drive in standard trim (between the excellent stock steering feel and some of the modifications I've made, that aging car is tough to beat in that department).
As is stated in my sig, the 2000 323i was the best car I've ever owned - no, it wasn't particulary fast, it didn't have huge skidpad numbers nor straightline prowess, but it was the most pleasurably balanced and fun car to drive on a daily basis - it rode beautifully, had just enough room, the right weight, the right size, great mpg, it looked great (mine was black, too), it was built and finished with a real sense of quality.

The smartest purchase I ever made was followed by the dumbest sale - I sold it five years later with only 47k on its clock because I decided I wanted a "sports car" (the Z4, which I sold after one year).........

Keep enjoying yours
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:56 AM
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PhilipWOT PhilipWOT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat View Post
Even though we'd both like the car as you've described it, I think we can also both agree that the necessary compromises would never be tolerated by the bulk of the US buyer market. No leather, no power seats, no slushotronic transmission, no Super Big Gulp cup holders?! Forget it; if it's not a Lexus/Buick in disguise, I don't want it!

I'd actually be somewhat happy with a basic 1 series as it comes in Europe (i.e. 120d/123d with cloth seats, six speed standard shift trans, manual A/C controls), but even that is a stretch.

What this car really needs is a turbo four making 200-something hp and weighing in at around 3000-3100 lbs with driver. Such an engine would provide a great compromise between power and fuel economy without weighing down the rest of the chassis with a heavy cylinder block and bulky drivetrain components.

I know what you mean. I'm not saying we shouldn't offer the 1 in the trim that it's going to be released in. Obviously alot of R&D went into making the car, and I have full faith that BMW NA knows what they're doing as far as selling cars. I just want their to be an option for guys like us in addition to the normal porky 1 series. Maybe call it the 128 LTW, you know- leave out some power bullcrap and throw some carbon fiber at it. I'll still pay $28K for the thing, BMW can just keep the moonroof.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:10 PM
Jeff_DML Jeff_DML is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needagarage View Post
If BMW was really looking to break into a new market they would have made the 1 series a cloth and 4 cyl car that had around 180-200HP,handled well (FELT nimble, not just high skid pad numbers), weigh under 2900 lbs and get 25/35mpg. Basically a mini that doesn't look like a mini. Unfortunately this is probably impossible since BMW doesn't currently sell a US spec 4 cylinder and doesn't have a lightweight chassis designed so it would be cost prohibitive.
exactly what I want
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:29 PM
335bhak 335bhak is offline
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200 lbs is quite a bit of a difference. One that will be noticed on the drag strip. Now depending upon weight balance- that may be an issue for this 1 series. However it is still a Bimmer. Thus I think that a Bimmer should set the standard as it always has on build quality and sound dampening materials. It would be a travesty not to have it in a bimmer - even if it is a 1 series. It will stilll be better than most possible competitors in its price. It will be better quality than, take sales from , be fastr than, and thus outsell the G37 without a doubt.
The 3 series in in a different league so I wouldn't worry about it taking sales from it.
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