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E85 / E86 Z4 (2003-2008)
E85 Z4 Roadster, E86 Z4 Coupe, E85 Z4 M Roadster, and E86 Z4 M Coupe talk with our BMW gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:40 PM
jbw219 jbw219 is offline
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MZ4 Vibration/Rattle...Engine?

Hi all,

I've got a weird problem with my coupe, I'll describe the best I can...

Driving home today, make a turn and hit a very slight bump at about 30 mph (by slight I mean basically a crack in the pavement - very slight), and a noise comes from the front right side of the car - a noise loud enough that I stop the car to see if something had fallen off the car - and also the car starts running "rough" at the same moment.

I don't know how to best describe the "rough" running...basically there is a lot of vibration in the cabin and the car seems somewhat louder. The power seems to be the same and there aren't any particular noises that I can identify. Everything just seems rougher and louder....????

Does anyone have any idea what this might be?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:45 PM
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greyish greyish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
Driving home today, make a turn and hit a very slight bump at about 30 mph (by slight I mean basically a crack in the pavement - very slight), and a noise comes from the front right side of the car - a noise loud enough that I stop the car to see if something had fallen off the car - and also the car starts running "rough" at the same moment.

I don't know how to best describe the "rough" running...basically there is a lot of vibration in the cabin and the car seems somewhat louder. The power seems to be the same and there aren't any particular noises that I can identify. Everything just seems rougher and louder....????

Does anyone have any idea what this might be?

sounds a lot like this.

..
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2007, 06:52 PM
jbw219 jbw219 is offline
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Thanks. I'm not sure that really fits it.

To add some more color - - the vibration can be felt when you're starting the car...i.e. before the car actually starts you can sense the vibration and, another symtom I just noticed, when you go over bumps now the front right hand side makes a clunk noise - a noise it has never made before............
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2007, 07:17 PM
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ebruder ebruder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
Thanks. I'm not sure that really fits it.

To add some more color - - the vibration can be felt when you're starting the car...i.e. before the car actually starts you can sense the vibration and, another symtom I just noticed, when you go over bumps now the front right hand side makes a clunk noise - a noise it has never made before............
Motor mount?

Definitely take it to the dealer... slowly or flat bed. Try BMW Assist, they might send a flatbed for you.

EB
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2007, 07:22 PM
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greyish greyish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
Thanks. I'm not sure that really fits it.

To add some more color - - the vibration can be felt when you're starting the car...i.e. before the car actually starts you can sense the vibration and, another symtom I just noticed, when you go over bumps now the front right hand side makes a clunk noise - a noise it has never made before............


perhaps Ron will chime in on this shortly, as he was in on the linked discussion and would probably be one of the best sources on this sort of question, but vibration when starting the car does sound like possible engine mount issues, as per the link. as do one-sided clunking sounds when taking bumps. obviously you are the better judge of this, but i would get it to your dealer (one way or another) soon.

..
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2007, 07:36 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyish View Post
perhaps Ron will chime in on this shortly, as he was in on the linked discussion and would probably be one of the best sources on this sort of question, but vibration when starting the car does sound like possible engine mount issues, as per the link. as do one-sided clunking sounds when taking bumps. obviously you are the better judge of this, but i would get it to your dealer (one way or another) soon.

..
Sounds like the motor mount/bracket. Open the hood and look at it with someone starting the car. Look at the header tubes. You can look down just behind cylinder two tube and see the nut on top of the motor mount and the bracket it's attached too.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:05 PM
jbw219 jbw219 is offline
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Thanks! As soon as I've got some light in the morning I'll check it out.

I busted a motor mount once on my Wrangler - - I had just jumped a river..... What would cause the motor mount to break on this car?? I've never even hit a bump hard...
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:10 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
Thanks! As soon as I've got some light in the morning I'll check it out.

I busted a motor mount once on my Wrangler - - I had just jumped a river..... What would cause the motor mount to break on this car?? I've never even hit a bump hard...
If it is the bracket let me know which of the four bolts broke or fell out.
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2007, 05:37 AM
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Ron- Is there a preventative check/correcting that we can do on this front motor mount? Maybe check the torque or replace with higher grade bolts?

Tx.

Pal
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:03 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Originally Posted by pal View Post
Ron- Is there a preventative check/correcting that we can do on this front motor mount? Maybe check the torque or replace with higher grade bolts?

Tx.

Pal
Not that I know of. Trying to find out what's actually happening.
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:50 AM
AMP AMP is offline
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Slightly OT...

When I was watching the Ultimate Factories bit on the Spartanburg plant I chuckled a bit when the quality inspector found a loose motor mount on the assembled drivetrain.

I've been seeing a lot of mention of this problem lately.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2007, 05:16 PM
jbw219 jbw219 is offline
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So I took the car in to the dealer this morning....

He showed me on the passenger side of the car where one bolt (towards the front) was missing, and another bolt that connects to the engine block was broken in half and he told me (but didn't show me) that the mount on the driver side is broken as well. I will ask for specifics whenever I pick the car back up. Anything in particular I should ask about??

They say this didn't do any other damage....???????

Also, he said the mount that connects to the engine block is designed to break - whenever the car is in a wreck etc. - my car has never been in a wreck, but he said that one probably broke first because it is the weakest link and then the others eventually broke as well.

I had noticed a very slight rattle for the past several weeks and was going to take it in anyway - but nothing bad enough to worry me - - I had actually chalked it up to the exhuast being slightly louder/vibrating. So, likely this was the first broken bolt.

Also, when this first happened yesterday it sounded like something had fallen off the car - - hence this must have been when the second bolt disappeared (it wouldn't have been the one connected to the block because that one is still there - just snapped in half). Also, this morning before I went to the dealer I heard the same noise like something had just fallen off the car - - I'm guessing this was one of the bolts on the driver's side....

Thanks for the help with this.
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2007, 05:20 PM
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greyish greyish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
Thanks for the help with this.

good to hear.

glad it is minor.

..
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2007, 06:12 PM
AlterEgo AlterEgo is offline
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That's good news - I trust this is all covered by warranty.

Your beast will be like a whole new animal when this repair is done - you won't know yourself.
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  #15  
Old 12-05-2007, 08:29 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
I will ask for specifics whenever I pick the car back up. Anything in particular I should ask about??
The Z4M uses the same rubber mounts, brackets and hardware as the E46-M3.
Never heard of this happening on a M3.

Ask:
Is there a round table bulletin coming on this problem?

Reference following pic:

On the right side bracket, what bolt fell out or broke in which hole?
On the left side bracket, what bolt fell out or broke in which hole?

Were the rubber mounts defective?
Were any of the nuts missing from the rubber mounts? Which ones?


Last edited by Ron Stygar; 02-02-2009 at 07:43 AM.
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  #16  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:00 PM
jbw219 jbw219 is offline
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Yes, covered by warranty.

Ron, re your picture, that is NOT the bolt that broke in half - at least from what they showed me - the bolt that broke in half was connected between the block and another piece of metal....I think that the picture you're showing is the one that disappeared entirely.

Anyway - I'll ask for specifics and print our this picture to show them so that I can get specifics.

Thanks again
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  #17  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:13 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Originally Posted by jbw219 View Post
Yes, covered by warranty.

Ron, re your picture, that is NOT the bolt that broke in half - at least from what they showed me - the bolt that broke in half was connected between the block and another piece of metal....I think that the picture you're showing is the one that disappeared entirely.
The bolts shown are from the parts data pic.

Brackets bolt to the block.
Rubber mount top bolts to the bracket.
Rubber mount bottom bolts to the front axle.
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2007, 09:19 PM
jbw219 jbw219 is offline
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Ok - maybe I wasn't looking at the whole thing.... I'll print out the picture and ask. Thanks.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2007, 04:14 AM
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This is the 3rd case of the same issue, correct? Is there anyway to identify the build dates of the vehicles we know this has affected, to determine if its a certain "run" of he car? I think we'll all agree that a car designed to be driven hard shouldn't have bolts flying off of it everywhere...
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:45 AM
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Luminor makes a good point ... jbw219, please can you post your build date and the last few (8 I think) alpha numerics of your VIN (6LL...), if you dont mind, so we can get an idea if our cars may be affected as well.

My thinking is that the bolts have not been torqued correctly (and consistently) from the factory which is causing extra stress on the one or two of them causing them to break. This then weakens the entire mount which starts to fail at that point. Per Ron, if the E46 M3 uses the same mount and did not have issues, then the problem would indicate an install issue at the SC factory.

Ron- in that pic, are those 2 different mounts for either side of the motor?

Last edited by pal; 12-06-2007 at 04:49 AM.
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  #21  
Old 12-06-2007, 05:50 AM
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inTgr8r inTgr8r is offline
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Also supported by AMP & the factory tour....
BTW... Did anyone record this footage???
I'd love to see it (we didn't get the NatGeo tour up here )

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMP View Post
Slightly OT...

When I was watching the Ultimate Factories bit on the Spartanburg plant I chuckled a bit when the quality inspector found a loose motor mount on the assembled drivetrain.

I've been seeing a lot of mention of this problem lately.
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2007, 06:59 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminor View Post
This is the 3rd case of the same issue, correct? Is there anyway to identify the build dates of the vehicles we know this has affected, to determine if its a certain "run" of he car? I think we'll all agree that a car designed to be driven hard shouldn't have bolts flying off of it everywhere...
Three as far as we know. Pretty sure that they were all 2007. Would have to do a search here for the other two.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 01-29-2009 at 08:56 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2007, 07:01 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Also supported by AMP & the factory tour....
BTW... Did anyone record this footage???
I'd love to see it (we didn't get the NatGeo tour up here )
Not sure that it is the rubber mount "NUT".
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2007, 07:09 AM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
Luminor makes a good point ... jbw219, please can you post your build date and the last few (8 I think) alpha numerics of your VIN (6LL...), if you dont mind, so we can get an idea if our cars may be affected as well.

My thinking is that the bolts have not been torqued correctly (and consistently) from the factory which is causing extra stress on the one or two of them causing them to break. This then weakens the entire mount which starts to fail at that point. Per Ron, if the E46 M3 uses the same mount and did not have issues, then the problem would indicate an install issue at the SC factory.

Ron- in that pic, are those 2 different mounts for either side of the motor?
2006 are LL93xxx
2007 are LL93xxx and LM08xxx

post #23:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthr...41#post2769741

Mounts are left and right (L) and (R) in the pic.
Left right is sitting in the seat, not looking at the engine from the front.

Last edited by Ron Stygar; 12-06-2007 at 02:42 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2007, 10:59 AM
reidconti reidconti is offline
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Sketchy. Hopefully the car wasn't crunched before you took delivery? Was it sitting around a lot for awhile, or did you order it?

I wouldn't worry about other damage, unless your motor jumped up and dented your hood or did something weird, you should be fine once the bolts/mounts are replaced. It would be difficult for the motor to move enough to hit your hood on an I6 in a RWD car. I'm sure most of us have driven a car with a blown motor mount at one point or another.
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