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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-09-2008, 06:37 AM
Bimmerfied Bimmerfied is offline
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CEL codes? white smoke at start up?

ok the dealer recently pulled these codes from my 98 528i. P1189, P1188, PO173 and they said that i needed 4 new oxygen sensors so silly me i told them to go ahead and do it so now $800 later i have the same problem and same codes. i havent worked much on my car other than changing brakes and oil but i plan trying to fix this to save some money if i can. So the problem that i am having is white smoke at start up rough idle on occasion and hear a "hooting" kind of sound (similar to an Owl - I'm serious!). I heard the term "hooter valve" in another discussion, and was told the part was fairly cheap but required several hours labor. I'd like to fix it myself if i can.

What I'm wondering is if the white smoke (which smells like heavy exhaust fumes, but doesn't dissipate like it's water vapor) isn't a seperate problem. I hear the 'hooting' noise only on occasion at idle. Can someone offer me some advice here? I don't know if I'm on the right path.
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2008, 07:14 AM
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Brian McKinney Brian McKinney is offline
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white smoke is usually means dried up or old valve seals, oil is slipping passed the seals into the exhaust. We had this problem with our Highlander, when we bought the car it sat on the lot for several weeks before we bought it never being driven or started, causing the valve seals to crack and wheather(they need oil to stay lubricated) I noticed white smoke on start up, but once warmed up no smoke. If the smoke only happens on start up then I am guessing that is your problem
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Bimmerfied Bimmerfied is offline
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that is correct only on start up, then no smoke after that, though i give it alot of gas at start up to get rid of the smoke or else it will idle real bad. so am i looking a head job? and a couple $1000
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2008, 01:24 PM
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lild lild is offline
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blame the dealer, it sounds like too me that you had no white smoke until after they had fixed it.
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2008, 01:30 PM
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Brian McKinney Brian McKinney is offline
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no head job just a valve job, the whitish smoke has been know to clog cats too..good luck- Brian
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2008, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfied View Post
that is correct only on start up, then no smoke after that, though i give it alot of gas at start up to get rid of the smoke or else it will idle real bad. so am i looking a head job? and a couple $1000
I would go back to the dealer and ask what they will do to "make this right" as their previous diagnosis and repair was not adequate. Any good dealer will want to make this right with you. I know mine would, without question.
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  #7  
Old 01-09-2008, 06:28 PM
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Brian McKinney Brian McKinney is offline
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+1 if they said it would fix the problem and they didnt, then they did not do what was promised, which was fix the CEL codes and other issues..
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  #8  
Old 01-09-2008, 07:24 PM
Bimmerfied Bimmerfied is offline
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Thumbs up

will do i will see what they have to say this weekend.
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  #9  
Old 01-09-2008, 07:57 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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P0173 is Fuel Trim Bank 2
P1188 is Fuel Control Bank 1
P1189 is Fuel Control Bank 2

You didn't say how many miles are on the car. If it was approaching 100,000 miles and the O2 sensors had not been replaced, then replacing the pre-cat sensors would be reasonable. Probably no reason to replace the post-cat sensors. That should have cleared the P0173 code.

The P1188 and P1189 codes are to general to be helpful. From what I've read, people chase the source of these codes and have mixed results getting to the source. I think P1188 and P1189 are set when the short term fuel trim (STFT) on the bank reaches about 20%, but I'm not sure.

My son has a e36 323is. The car started throwing the same sort of codes. I replaced the pre-cat oxygen sensor. The car ran better, but P1188 came back. I read that it could be from a vacuum leak, so I searched and found a cracked intake boot. I replaced the boot, but the code came back.

A few days ago, I replaced the crankcase ventilation valve (CVV). After getting it back together, I cleared the codes. The P1188 came back and I cleared it again. After a couple of times, the code did not return. The STFT still reaches about 14% at idle, so I think there is still an unmetered air leak. I guess I'll find out later.

Anyway, you might want to check the bottom of the intake boot for cracks. And consider replacing the CVV. Apparently the best way to test for an intake leak is with a smoke test. Maybe the dealer can do that for you.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2008, 06:38 AM
Bimmerfied Bimmerfied is offline
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Lightbulb

interesting so a vacuum can can throw your readings out of wack, cause it is unmetered air that is not reconized by the MAF sensor? where exactly is the cvv on a 98 528i ? oh my car has 132,000 miles on it. i wounder if this white smoke at start up is caused by a vacuum leak, cause if i have a leak it would throw my o2/cpu readings out because of the added air which in turn to compensate that it would have to dump more fuel...
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2008, 03:54 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Exactly. Unmetered air makes the mixture lean. The ECU reads the O2 sensors, adjust the mixture with the STFT (holding the injectors open for a little longer), but the resulting mixture is still too lean. At some point the ECU reaches the preset limit and sets the CEL.

Most likely, you have an air leak, but it could also be a clogged fuel filter or a bad fuel pressure regulator.

Of course, if the mixture is too rich, the same thing could happen. That might be caused by a failed injector.

If you have access to a scan tool, check the data for the STFT and LTFT. If the numbers are positive, that means that the ECU is adding fuel, so the mixture is lean. If the numbers are negative, you have a rich mixture.

The CVV is under the intake manifold between the second and third cylinders.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2008, 05:13 PM
Bimmerfied Bimmerfied is offline
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Thumbs up

ok i was out tinkering with my car and i found the vac. leak its right under the intake looks like it plugs into the bottom of it. round black valve. probably the cvv that your talking about it has a crack in it. maybe i try and get some pics of it tomorrow. i wonder how hard it is to change that, and if i can do it myself
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  #13  
Old 01-10-2008, 05:59 PM
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edirty9 edirty9 is offline
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i got the same issues...
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  #14  
Old 01-10-2008, 07:38 PM
Vette528i Vette528i is offline
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Yes the crankcase vent valve is your problem, causes internal vacuum leak and also pulls oil vapors into intake track and gives you the smoke, hooting noise and the mixture codes and can also set O2 sensor codes because of onmetered air. Replacing the valve on the 6 is a little tight but a lot easyer if you get a 10mm 1/4" swivel socket
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2008, 07:38 PM
jsayreshepherd jsayreshepherd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfied View Post
ok i was out tinkering with my car and i found the vac. leak its right under the intake looks like it plugs into the bottom of it. round black valve. probably the cvv that your talking about it has a crack in it. maybe i try and get some pics of it tomorrow. i wonder how hard it is to change that, and if i can do it myself
I'd love to see your pics. I had a cel with 1188 and 1189, due to a hole in the boot between the maf and the manifold. Replacing the boot cleared the code, but the idle is still a bit rough - not dipping and diving rpms, just a bit rumbly and vibrating. I wonder if there's another, less major airleak? btw - pre cat o2's and spark plugs are new and maf was recently cleaned.
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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That's a common place for a leak. That's the intake boot.

The CVV is the crankcase ventilation valve. I guess it's also called the CCV or the oil separator or the pressure regulating valve.

Anyway, it is under the intake manifold. If you look at the top of the valve cover, you'll see a black plastic hose leading from the front to the CCV under the intake manifold. This tube is not a rubber hose, but a hard plastic tube that has some ridges in it.

From the realoem site, the part number 11 15 1 703 484 is used up to 9/98 build date. I think this actually mounts in a hole in the intake manifold. After that, the part number is 11 61 7 501 566. I'm not sure where this mounts, but I guess I'll find out in a few months.

I think that replacing the torn intake boot would be your first step. You know that's bad and it's a hughe source of unmetered air
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  #17  
Old 12-10-2008, 05:15 PM
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ztom ztom is offline
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i had this white smoke problem, fixed by replacing ccv
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2008, 08:44 PM
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I wish I could say the same about mine. I changed the ccv about 8 months ago. It cleared up the smoke at start-up but it's doing it again. I believe it's the valve guide seals now. I dread doing that job.
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