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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E36 (1991 - 1999)

E36 (1991 - 1999)
The E36 chassis 3-Series BMW was a huge hit among driving enthusiasts from the first moment the car hit the pavement. The E36 won numerous awards over the years it was produced and is still a favorite of many BMW enthusiasts to this day! -- View the E36 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 02-26-2008, 12:41 PM
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Check www.Bavauto.com or www.pelicanparts.com

If you use www.realoem.com to get the part numbers you can put them into the search on either above mentioned site and it just makes finding things easier.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accurate Inject View Post
Guys:

Is there no interest in ITB's at all for the 325 motors in the E36 chassis?

Kevin
You'd have better luck developing a new style of klear Kornerzz with JDM mad tyte neon Halo-lytzzzz with this crowd.
However, if your ITB setup will work on a 95 M3 (S50US Motor) without jeapordizing driveability and throwing CEL's then you can count me as a customer. I've been playing with the idea of ordering the European ITB head through my job (I work for BMW), but if I found something comperable in aftermarket I would definitely look into it.
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2008, 01:44 PM
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MAF Connector? anyone know of a good source for the DIN Electrical Connectors for the BMW?

Need a Male connector for the MAF Plug!

Kevin
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:49 PM
accurate Inject accurate Inject is offline
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Well we are going to develope it no matter what, and when we post a Movie of the Sound that ITB's make the Pishssssss sound between shifts will pale in comparison! LOL! Nothing like the sound of ITB's on an Inline 6!

What we need is a Connector that will mate to the MAF Plug, the connector on the MAF itself! Not sure if that DIN/Aphenol connector is used some where else in a BMW or other European Car or Not?

This would make it all Plug and Play without Soldering!

Anyone that can drag pull or push knowledgeable BMW people to the Thread to help is Welcomed!

Kevin
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  #30  
Old 03-28-2008, 10:53 PM
accurate Inject accurate Inject is offline
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Just in case anyone is still interested here!

I think we are gonna put some "Lambo Doors" on the Filters to make them easier to get on and off! LMAO!

Split Second has come in fill the MAF to Speed Density Swap duties! Testing on a E46 with 2.8ltr first!


Thanks!
Kevin



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  #31  
Old 03-29-2008, 08:46 AM
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i want to see the results
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  #32  
Old 03-29-2008, 08:50 AM
accurate Inject accurate Inject is offline
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That makes 2 of us!

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  #33  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:49 AM
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Wow, I'm glad to see a vendor with the drive to try something like that! Its about time people start making serious mods for those cars, instead of everyone being stranded at I/H/E + cams and a chip. Applause for this.

However, I do think that due to the budget and tastes of many E36er's, this is probably never going to be financially viable. Its sad. Most of them will look at the costs and go, "Yeah, but I can a mad JDM tyte turbo and loud azz WHOOOSH blow off valve for the same price" Hell, most of your E36er's won't even know what an ITB is, does, or stands for.

Not to be a downer, as I too am interested to know what the M50/52 can do with those.
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  #34  
Old 03-30-2008, 08:22 AM
accurate Inject accurate Inject is offline
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Well I Understand your point of view, and we have had the Turbo Cars as well, and forced induction will always make more power than itb's! With that said! Look at the Plenum below Ron spent hours and tons money building the plenum only to find the engine makes tons of power on 4 cylinders and moderate power on 2. Granted this is a Turbo Datsun 6, but the concept and air flow charasteristics are the same!

Also note the inlet Pressureof the Throttle Body and the outlet pressure of the runners! There's a thing called Pressure drop that happens when you transition from a small space to a large space

ITB's balance out air flow on a motor like no other type of induction system can!

Cost all depends on how creative you are, what skill levels you have! The Extrudabody 6 ITB kit can be had for $1200 bucks, Head Plates and ITB Plates to build the manifold are available/economical as well. If you had a TIG welder or a friend with one you are 90% there!

The Whooooosh is cool, but there's nothing like the sound of 6 ITB's at full SONG! And forgive me in advance, as I am way to old for this word, but the Bling factor is off the Scale! Ha!

Kevin




Thanks Ron for letting me use your information, and this is in no way a deragatory comment to Ron and his work, just physics and air flow characteristics!
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  #35  
Old 03-30-2008, 01:21 PM
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Kevin,
I FULLY agree with you bro. If I had my E36 I'd pick up a kit from you in a heartbeat. Its just sad that many people would rather just take the easy way out and jump straight to FI. I hope there is enough interest from the community to make it viable for you to sell long-term.
And - no kidding - ITB's are definitely much cooler in my book than FI.

By the way......if you ever feel like getting around to making them for the 4.4L V-8.....heh heh heh.

In all honesty, I think if you could make a kit for the M62, you'd have a very big hit on your hands. Many of the V-8 E39 enthusiast crowd would love an alternative to FI. Our only options are perhaps 3 or 4 S/C kits. There are no turbo kits at all. The S/C's all cost upwards of 5 grand, plus installation. If you could make something that provided a substantial boost in power (obviously not FI range, but something that was substantial) for sub 2 grand price, I'd wager they'd fly off the shelves. I'd be in I'm sure.
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  #36  
Old 03-30-2008, 04:02 PM
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It wouldn't be hard to build an ITB set-up for this motor that would be less than $2.5k! It's basically no different than the Nissan Titan below! That's one of the unique advantages of Extrudabody Modular system! The E36 Manifold is complicated to build as it needs to clear the hood and the oil filter!






Titan Bolt on ITB's and the Plastic Manifold it replaces!

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  #37  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:16 AM
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Kevin,
I'd HIGHLY recommend you post over in the E39 section and see if you get the response I'm expecting. I'd love to see a setup like that for the M62. Would you be able to guess what kind of gains are we talking on that motor, with and without Vanos?
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2008, 05:57 AM
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Well if you want to do a Post over there that's fine, but we have to wrap up the E36 Project first, and do the MAF conversion to see validity!

The gains are SWAG at best, the torque on the bottom end with suffer and the high end power will increase a great deal! Some runner length could be added back to the top end of the ITB's to move the torque curve, but here again if we had BMW's budget then the sky would be the limit!

K
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  #39  
Old 05-07-2008, 04:57 PM
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Few Updates:

Stock Wiring Harness fits quite nice, and tidy's up the Top!



Throat Shot to show clean flow to the Intake Port, what you can't see is the Injector is almost perfectly aimed at the Center of the open ports.



No Plenum-Stock ECU = hopefully we can pull it off, want be cause we didn't try!

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  #40  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:06 PM
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looks great, be interested in itb setup....interested in the numbers when there done.
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  #41  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:19 PM
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Those ITB's are Actually 50mm that taper to the 45mm Throttle Plates, the Airhorn have a 75mm OD, and a 12.5mm Radius from 62mm!

Working our the IAC Functions, Air Temp ETC!

Kevin
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  #42  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:12 PM
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awesome, lets see some numbers
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  #43  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:39 PM
rexzilla_03 rexzilla_03 is offline
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how about the m42 and m44 owners, we want itbs to!
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  #44  
Old 05-07-2008, 10:40 PM
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i hate to be the dumb a$$ here but what is "ITB"?
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  #45  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:51 PM
SCANDINAVIAN13 SCANDINAVIAN13 is offline
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Individual Throttle Body

I'm definitely interested. Even if people do decide to go with a super or a turbo, the ITB will increase its effect.
I agree with Chad, though, that many of the tools in this section (especially the newer ones) would rather have nipple lights with some mad tite halos, maybe with some chrome and LEDs.

I'd say you'd be able to pull a decent amount through the enthusiasts here, and from there, I'm sure you'd get some good word-of-mouth going. Heck, Bimmerfest and other shows will just amplify it all. Then again, I'm no marketing major.
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  #46  
Old 05-08-2008, 07:10 AM
accurate Inject accurate Inject is offline
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Guys:

This is what Extrudabody is all about! It's a Modular Concept that allows a team/person to build ITB set-ups for just about anything! Extrudabody builds 90% of all the hard Parts to make a ITB system work on the M42/M44. Extrudabody has a $99 dollar 90mm-90mm-90mm 4 cylinder Weld plate that allows you to custom build a Manifold.

Find a junk or used Intake Manifold off Flebay, cut the Flange off, take the weld plate and Flange to a welder and have 45mm ID Aluminum runners welded to the Weld Plate, the Welder will need to form the runners into an oval for the Head flange, this is done in a Vise then tig welded to the Head Flange, back port the Flanges and true the Flange surfaces at your local Head Rebuilding shop!

One thing is for sure, the more work you do the cheaper it is! If you don't have this expertise network and find someone that does and work with them.

Call Mack at McKinney Motorsports he can build you a Manifold as well! Then the Extrudabody Dual ITB Kit is a Bolt on for the M42/M44.

The manifold above and below are built the same way, we use a Dingleberry Hone to Swirl Polish the bores after all work is done!


Last edited by accurate Inject; 05-08-2008 at 07:12 AM. Reason: mispell
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  #47  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:16 AM
zlw23 zlw23 is offline
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This has always been a consideration of mine. I am in the planning stage for my next project E30, possibly an M50 swap. This will comlpetely depend on the resulting numbers, but i am interested.

i have subscribed to the thread, and look forward to seeing progress.
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  #48  
Old 05-08-2008, 02:04 PM
zlw23 zlw23 is offline
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do you have any estimated date for official testing/numbers?
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  #49  
Old 05-09-2008, 06:27 AM
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I am currently considering replacing the intake manifold and throttle body on my 328i in order to 'de-restrict' the air flow and free up a bit more power. I am very curious to know how an ITB setup would compare in terms of performance and cost.

Also is there any additional engine strengthening required with the ITB's?

Is an engine re-map required/desirable after these upgrades?

Is it safe to run the ITB's without an airbox and plenum chamber (as shown i post 39) this would probably be my preferred option if it produces good performance without damaging the engine? I guess the problem is getting an accurate signal for for the MAF?

Last edited by -Matt-; 05-09-2008 at 06:42 AM.
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  #50  
Old 05-09-2008, 06:56 AM
accurate Inject accurate Inject is offline
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Official Release Date and time? We have the Hamster peddling at warp speed, and we have one of the best working on the Electronics side of the Equation, so nothing is concrete as of a release date yet! It has to be right, before we sell it!

Matt: We will be much more expensive than a OBD1 and 3.5 MAF for sure! Power increase is dependent on the engine modification! ITB's does 2 things:

1. Balances the engine so all the cyclinders are pulling the same amount of AIR, even the best manifold designs are a compromise with regards to the cylinder to cyliner air Distribution, over a given amount of Engine compartment space!
2. Any upgrades like Cams, Compression, flow work can be fully utilized, and tuned to the runner length desired!

ReMap? Yes, Split Second is working on a MAF Conversion that will do away with the MAF Sensor. This will require tuning, there is no such thing as a magic box that just bolts on! It can be close, but Map Tuning will still be needed!

Engine Mods? No, not unless you have increase compression, by shaving the head or replaced the pistons, then an engine builder would be involved and I'm sure he would have suggested ARP Hardware!

The Plenum? The Plenum on any Manifold is an unavoidable evil, only there to murge air to one point to make throttle control, and metering possible with one TB & MAF. It's a cost control way to make the engine run smoothly and effiecently, it is not about making HP/TQ!

Kevin
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