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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #151  
Old 08-25-2010, 01:35 PM
pokerfaceln pokerfaceln is offline
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Sunroof Drain Clog - Flood

Quote:
Originally Posted by ANZAC_1915 View Post
My case was escalated to BMWNA by the dealer and they authorized a goodwill repair and said it wasn't warranty. They have my case information, and the report of the problem, why should I contact them twice?

What do the dealers have to do? It is a design issue. They just replace things if they are broken. BMW designs the sunroof.
BMW needs to be wakened up and takes care of this flaw properly because it is indeed a potential safety issue. If anyone is interested in joint sign a letter of formal complaint addressing to the president of BMW NA or considering legal action, I am in.

Product liability suite is contingency based, so there must be attorneys who are interested in taking on BMW. Punitive damage can be large if the management is found to hide facts deliberately to avoid recalls or warranty costs. Dow Corning and cigarette companies all found it the hard way.

I am sure the last thing BMW wants is to let this thing deteriorates into a case like Toyota.
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  #152  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:28 PM
Lumberdawg Lumberdawg is offline
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I just had the same issue with my 2007 CPO 530i. I had a TPM malfunction light as well as the electrical malfunction light come on. I took it to Century BMW in Greenville, SC the following day and water was found to have fried my rdc modular. They told me it was not covered in my CPO even though I have taken this car in twice for a TPM malfunction before the new car warranty expired. I called corporate and they told me since it was caused by something external, they are not responsible. My response, define external causes, they couldn't. I said if you haven't even checked to see if the drains are clogged, how could you know it was external!!!!!

I haven't paid for the service yet, Century BMW wanted to talk to corporate first. The service manager said if it was up to him he would take care of it, but now he has to get approval. I firmly believe this is not my fault and it should be covered. There are a number of issues I have.
1. Why is the RDC modular under the trunk and why isn't it protected from water. Sounds to me like a design flaw.
2. Why would it be covered under the orginial and not the CPO, I paid more for a CPO vehicle for these reasons. Under the CPO it states electrical as covered.
3. I had an issue with the TPM malfunctioning 2 times while the car was under the new car warranty and nothing was done. All they did was reset the TPM when I took it in to be looked at. No one investigated for water below the trunk.
4. When I went to pick the car up today, they were shocked when I pulled out a August 2009 service information bulletin explaining to the dealers on how to fix the problem, yet they didn't even do that yesterday after they knew there was an issue. They didn't even check to see if the drains from the sunroof were clogged. I could easily have this issue tomorrow if it rains and those drains are clogged.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY SUCCESS IN GETTING THIS TYPE ISSUE RESOLVED, PLEASSSEEEEEE EMAIL ME.
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  #153  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:16 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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I hate this for you. I have had water leaks in two places. Underwarranty the dealer replaced the sunroof seals and the entire headliner due to water leak and streaks left in the headliner. No questions asked. I have had no electrical failures thank goodness.

So BMWNA stated they are not responsible for "external" items. Did you ask how the external item got inside the BMW? So, BMW sells cars that it is "normal" for external items to be inside?"


That is it I have had it with BMW. I own 3 and I will never never buy one again. My purchase resulted in 5 BMW purchases through peers at work and friends. I hope they never have this problem as I would be embarrassed.

Everyone, It is OK to have water leaks inside your BMW by design it is mother nature's fault that rain drops are so small, and wet.

I am venting... I suggest that you follow the procedure in the owners manual, check with your local clerk of court as some states have a mechanics lean statute where you can dispute the bill, pay the clerk of court the repair cost, obtain a court vehicle release from the dealer with a date in court for both you and the dealer to present your case. Unfortunately if you lose the clerk just hands over your money to the dealer.
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  #154  
Old 09-21-2010, 07:45 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumberdawg View Post
I just had the same issue with my 2007 CPO 530i. I had a TPM malfunction light as well as the electrical malfunction light come on. I took it to Century BMW in Greenville, SC the following day and water was found to have fried my rdc modular. They told me it was not covered in my CPO even though I have taken this car in twice for a TPM malfunction before the new car warranty expired. I called corporate and they told me since it was caused by something external, they are not responsible. My response, define external causes, they couldn't. I said if you haven't even checked to see if the drains are clogged, how could you know it was external!!!!!
I assume it is a sedan? What about the TSB to relocate the TPM, RDC etc modules?
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  #155  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:41 AM
Lumberdawg Lumberdawg is offline
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I am going to ask that. I am not an expert in BMW's so this may be a stupid question. Where are the eletrical devices in other BMW's? Are they all under the spare tire? Are any of the protected from water or are they all exposed?

Last edited by Lumberdawg; 09-22-2010 at 05:51 AM.
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  #156  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:43 PM
dlebaron dlebaron is offline
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2nd Time this has happened to me....

I have a 2006 BMW 530Xi Touring Wagon, live in Oregon, park my car in a secured undercover garage.....but do drive in the rain

I was told my drains are again plugged up, causing the water to destoy the rear electronics.

Agin, BMW north America has decided its not a design issue. I found an article at: (http://forums.5series.net/topic/8107...f/page__st__30) that talks about the tube being 1/2 inch wide and the drain valve being only 1/4 inch, which of course can cause small items to easily clog up and thus causing the water to run over the casette and into the electronics.

I noticed today a class action law suit on my old Audi Allroad for the same issue. Does anyone know if there is one for these cars?
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  #157  
Old 09-22-2010, 01:44 PM
dlebaron dlebaron is offline
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2nd Time this has happened to me....

I have a 2006 BMW 530Xi Touring Wagon, live in Oregon, park my car in a secured undercover garage.....but do drive in the rain

I was told my drains are again plugged up, causing the water to destoy the rear electronics.

Again, BMW north America has decided its not a design issue. Another 3k issue i have to pay for. They recommended i turn this into insurance.

I found an article at: (http://forums.5series.net/topic/8107...f/page__st__30) that talks about the tube being 1/2 inch wide and the drain valve being only 1/4 inch, which of course can cause small items to easily clog up and thus causing the water to run over the casette and into the electronics. I think its time to cut the valve out....

I noticed today a class action law suit on my old Audi Allroad for the same issue. Does anyone know if there is one for these cars?
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  #158  
Old 09-22-2010, 06:09 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Why are your drains plugged up. Has your sunroof been open do you drive in dust storms or have leaves pour in.

I am tired of hearing "Drain Lines are Clogged" clogged with what?? How many times do you ride with the sunroof open and stuff flies in?

BMW has a real problem here!!!

I had water leaking in and no drain plugs were clogged. None! I have looked at the drain lines I know where they are, where they run. Water should not be getting in 2, 3, 4 and 5 year old cars. I don't expect from Hyundai, Saturn, Chevy , Ford Why are we even accepting that a BMW would.

My leaks are fixed! under warranty was the most significant.
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  #159  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:07 PM
njlou njlou is offline
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These assaults are very aggrevating especially from a premium car company and directed to owners who are enthusiasts.
I really understand your conflict.

I dont now have this issue, but I had a 1999 Volvo S80 which remarkably is so similar to the BMW. After quite a few years, I would get water into the rear passenger floor area.
I discovered that the drain was clogged on that side. I also discovered that it was actually clogged at the rear outlet. I used a wire to clear the clog and it ran free. I also removed an existing rubber plug to let the water drain out.
Now the question you all ask. How does so much water get in there. I am not sure, but I think that the drain system is a part of the front cowl drain system and that actually clogs in turn backing up the sunroof. Thats the only thing that makes sense.

Also I had an older model Camry years ago. They recalled the car since some customers would spill coffee etc. into the center console blowing out the automatic seat belt retractor.
In true Teeota fashion they put a plastic bag around the electronics and .......fixed.
So why cant BMW put a plastic bag around the electronics and a small drain ala A/C style to drain away a potential problem?? a failsafe so to speak!!

Also a friend had a 1990 Volvo and his sunroof always leaked big time. windshield installers re caulked it, drains were cleaned, seals were tight no avail. I said I would look at it and I noticed that he had one of those plastic deflectors installed for years. I thought that the water was going past the clips, so we removed the whole thing and problem solved.
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  #160  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:11 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogie View Post
Why are your drains plugged up. Has your sunroof been open do you drive in dust storms or have leaves pour in.

I am tired of hearing "Drain Lines are Clogged" clogged with what?? How many times do you ride with the sunroof open and stuff flies in?

BMW has a real problem here!!!
Well our sunroof basically was never open, and yet the drains were clogged.

1) how can debris get in there when the sunroof is closed? (ie was seal faulty? yes they finally replaced it after the 3rd or 4th visit)

2) even if debris gets in there, why doesn't it drain out? A: flapper valves on 2 of the drains. VW had a TSB to cut their flapper valves off....


I honestly wonder if this is why BMW stopped selling the E61. Eventually the people who have the issues will sell their cars and buy something else.
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  #161  
Old 09-23-2010, 05:28 AM
Lumberdawg Lumberdawg is offline
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This issue is getting more and more comical to be honest. Its like watching a monkey hump a football. I get a call from my dealer last night telling me that the SIB that instructs the tech to properly look for the problem and how to correct it does not involve my issue. REALLY? First off I had to show them the SIB from the engineer. They felt if they just simply replace the RDC everything is good. Incorrect. Fix the issue that caused the failure. Secondly, I was like YOUR LOOKING AT THE WRONG SIB and the SIB I had you look at states IF NO LEAKS ARE IDENTIFIED, RELOCATE THE RDCCCCCCCCCC MODULE TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE TRUNK, ARE YOU S#$%^ING ME YOU CAN'T SEE THAT!!!!!

When an engineer for the 5 series sends out an SIB, that is a form of guilt in my eyes that there is an issue. and if you read the entire SIB that best paragraph is this and I quote " THE CUSTOMER SHOULD BE NOTIFIED OF THE LABEL AND THE FACT THAT LIQUIDS SHOULD NOT BE PRESENT ON OR UNDER THE TRUNK INSULATION, DUE TO THE SENSITIVE NATURE OF THE ELECTRONIC CONTROL UNITS LOCATED IN THE SPARE TIRE WELL". Ok BMW, I go to the store and get groceries, uuuuhhh ohhhhh Mr. BMW, does that mean I can't place my groceries in the trunk for fear of something spilling? I buy a nice vehicle with a nice price tag and your telling me not to place groceries in the trunk. Gawd for bid the milk has a leak or a bottle breaks. Or I want to take a cooler to a college football game, better not do that Mr. Consumer, that is a no no.

BMW needs to wake up and realize we have us a problem here.
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  #162  
Old 09-23-2010, 01:23 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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The other glaring omission is there is a TSB to relocate the electronics on the sedan, but not the wagon....
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  #163  
Old 09-23-2010, 05:34 PM
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Hogie Hogie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANZAC_1915 View Post
Well our sunroof basically was never open, and yet the drains were clogged.

1) how can debris get in there when the sunroof is closed? (ie was seal faulty? yes they finally replaced it after the 3rd or 4th visit)

2) even if debris gets in there, why doesn't it drain out? A: flapper valves on 2 of the drains. VW had a TSB to cut their flapper valves off....


I honestly wonder if this is why BMW stopped selling the E61. Eventually the people who have the issues will sell their cars and buy something else.
Thank you for the reply it just support to me that there is a problem from the design. The fact that you ( and me) hardly open the sunroof is what drives my frustration whenI hear the drains are plugged. If the flapper valve is malfunctioning then I relate to defect in material or workmanship.
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  #164  
Old 09-24-2010, 06:14 AM
Lumberdawg Lumberdawg is offline
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I finally got a phone call from the GM at my local dealer after I shot him an email explaining my situation. Finally, someone with common sense @ BMW realizes a person that simply puts a cooler in their vehicle should not cause an electrical malfunction. Water is getting into these vehicles and it isn't the customers fault. Be it through clogged drains, seals, or what have you, the issue @ hand is why in the HELL did you place an electrical device at the low point of the car? Its like having an electrical outlet in your shower, not a smart thing to do. I did inform him that I had to AGRUE over and over again with my service rep and the tech that they have to move the RDC modular. I refused to pick the vehicle up till this was done. The GM read the SIB and was confused that the tech didn't do that as standard protocol. The tech tried to cover his tracks by saying he always moves them when water is found at the bottom of the spare tire well. BS, we went back for forth for 2 days over this and then the last call they said they would move it but had no clue as to where to put it in the trunk. If he did it all the time then he should know where to put it. The GM was not very happy to say the least.

I also informed him that this might not be the last time he hears about this problem. It might be but time will tell. I sent out a certified letter to the following people explaining everyone's problem with water getting into the spare tire well, where electrical components are conveniently located for water to destroy the electrical system of the vehicle. I sent these letters to the Exec. VP of Operations in NJ, the VP of engineering in NJ, the VP of marketing and sales, the VP of engineering here in Greer, SC ( I live about 3 miles from the plant), the GM of my local dealer, and last but not least, the worthless customer service department @ BMW NA. I sent these certified for two reasons. 1. The obvious , making sure they sign for them and at least know they were given a chance to read our story. 2. If and when someone gets hurt from their electrical system failing while driving and BMW denies they knew there was an issue, well I will be informing the media of my letters and who signed for them.

This will probably get no where but at least I can say I tried and did my part in trying to notice BMW of this issue.
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  #165  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:03 PM
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Nube1kenobi Nube1kenobi is offline
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LumberDawg: Great going! Hopefully more festers will benefit from your efforts!

FYI - I did not have moisture issues but one time when it was raining cats and dogs and my PDC stuck with a constant reading to the right rear corner, I located that SIB and moved my electronics. I mounted them on rubber shock mounts instead of velcro. Moreover, I opened all 4 stamped openings instead of just the front 2. I am used to preventive measures and do not like to wait until "sh!t happen".
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  #166  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:17 PM
tmcd535ixt tmcd535ixt is offline
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Hope this posts helps others: Two weeks into my brand new (to me) 08 535 wagon was a victim of clogged drain lines sending water to the electronics after driving in a bad rainstorm. 47k miles so still under warranty and I had towed to the my nearest dealer who told me that it is not a warranty item and estimated repairs at around $4k...ugh. The funniest part though was they first suggested the water got in there by the detailers hosing off the spare tire, I loved this suggestion but I said I doubted very much and they happily did a leak test and confirmed the drains were plogged, but still wouldn't repair. I was able to get the car towed to another dealer that is friendly with the shop from whom I purchased the car and they fixed for me under warranty. But did warn to have those drains cleared every 6 months to a year. Only problem after all this, the PDC now is backwards, items in front warn on the back of the picture of the car and vice versa, a small price to pay I'd say.
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  #167  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:46 PM
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Nube1kenobi Nube1kenobi is offline
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Is it possible that they reversed the PDC module connectors on you?
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  #168  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:53 PM
ANZAC_1915 ANZAC_1915 is offline
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This shouldn't be hard to fix, just remove the trunk floor/cover and remove the spare wheel, it is all under the foam tray cover.

Of course you need to know which module is which, I do know the RDC controller for example, was marked RDC.
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  #169  
Old 10-11-2010, 07:40 PM
PTW PTW is offline
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Boy, I sure wish I had found this post earlier and taken preventative measures to avoid what happened today.

Fired it up and received the Self Leveling Susp Inactive error, no leveling out of the vehicle.

Turned car off and fired up google. Found a bunch of info but started with the easiest and most obvious, the fuse. It was indeed burned out so I replaced it. Problem not fixed, new fuse blew as well. Then I stumbled upon this thread. Returned to the car, popped open the rear hatch, removed the tire, and lo and behold my battery was sitting in an inch of water. Upon further inspection I can see standing water inside of the rear qp under the subwoofer and fuse housing.

I recently had the right rear quarter panel replaced after a car backed into it. Is it possible that this repair is the cause of the flooding?

If not, has anyone that is out of warranty had any success dealing with BMWNA or the dealerships? This seems like something they should have issued a recall on long ago.

Last edited by PTW; 10-22-2010 at 01:06 PM.
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  #170  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:38 PM
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Nube1kenobi Nube1kenobi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANZAC_1915 View Post
This shouldn't be hard to fix, just remove the trunk floor/cover and remove the spare wheel, it is all under the foam tray cover.

Of course you need to know which module is which, I do know the RDC controller for example, was marked RDC.
For his wagon, it would be the rectangular module center left, aft of the foam, with 3 connectors to the right.
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  #171  
Old 10-12-2010, 01:35 PM
PTW PTW is offline
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Damaged EHC Unit

So I removed most of the components from the trunk area to dry it out today and the EHC unit has indeed been fried.

Also, while I was removing the standing water some started pouring out the rear of the vehicle. Is this where the sunroof drains evacuate? If not perhaps this could be related to the quarter panel repair? The water is coming from somewhere above the inner rear bumper, not the exhaust as it may appear in the pic.





Last edited by PTW; 10-22-2010 at 01:07 PM.
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  #172  
Old 10-16-2010, 06:26 PM
eagle sailor eagle sailor is offline
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i had a similar problem paid dealer to replace the liner in the door but still water was collecting in the bottom of the door. 2-3 inches of water. well for some reason I was under the door of the car looking around. there is a formed drain in the front bottom of the door. a couple of cotton swabs and the water begat to flow for almost 3 minutes.
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  #173  
Old 10-18-2010, 08:12 AM
tmcd535ixt tmcd535ixt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nube1kenobi View Post
For his wagon, it would be the rectangular module center left, aft of the foam, with 3 connectors to the right.
Thanks, I'll take a look and see if I can switch them.
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  #174  
Old 10-18-2010, 08:18 AM
tmcd535ixt tmcd535ixt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTW View Post

How would you guys and gals suggest I deal with this as Im out of warranty? Insurance? Fight the body shop? Fight the dealer? Car off a cliff? I dont drive it much but I like having a SUV for, well, SUV things. Kinda funny mine is allergic to the rain and tree debris...
I don't think you're going to have much luck with BMW unfortunately, I did talk to my insurance company and they said that they would cover minus the deductible of course. good luck!
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  #175  
Old 10-18-2010, 12:49 PM
YGBSM YGBSM is offline
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Do some of you wagon guys have electronic modules in the actual spare tire well? My 2010 (November 2009 build) doesn't have any modules in the actual well. Just wondering if BMW made a running change on the production line to address this problem. In my car, I can see one module forward of the spare tire well under the compartments, and one each in the side compartments towards the rear of the car.
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