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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #276  
Old 03-30-2008, 06:17 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Ugh. This came back from CR:

Quote:
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the site's support team and inform them of the time of the error and what operation
you were performing when the error occurred.
I'll try again Monday.

a.
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  #277  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:00 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Andrew, as an engineer I am baffled that you would even consider CR as a source of information. I to am an engineer (EE) with certs in computer science, RF, and mechanical engineering, I also hold a degree in business marketing and management. That is one of the many reasons I hold no stock in CR.

Consumer Reports main problem is that by the time they release their findings technology has changed significantly enough to nullify their findings.

And since they don't post their sample size with relation to the entire population of the product the credibility is moot, and misleading.

I happen to agree with Bobert that BMWNA's action (and recent inaction) ratify and validate that there are serious problems with the GM6 AT and thereby the 07/08 X3.

I know we are in a gas crunch right now, but it will be interesting to see a simple sales ratio of the X3's sales with respect to their other models as well as competitors in a year.

To me that would really tell the story about the perception of this vehicle. And, although I live by quantifiable objective data, perception in most cases is reality.

And if we followed CR's recommendations as I understand it, we should all be driving the Acura RDX or an Audi..right?

As far a their faulty radios. Feh!

Last edited by Evlengr; 03-30-2008 at 08:20 AM.
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  #278  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:29 AM
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LMC LMC is offline
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Andrew, please do follow up with Consumer Reports. I thought your comments were right on: CR data is imperfect, to say the least, but it is the closest thing to data we have. The best source is BMW, and they aren't talking and never will.
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  #279  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post

I know we are in a gas crunch right now, but it will be interesting to see a simple sales ratio of the X3's sales with respect to their other models as well as competitors in a year.
Hard data are good.

Fester FDMeloan has been posting unit sales results for many years. BMW NA recently pulled the plug on monthly data. December 2007 is the last month he posted sales results.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=253407

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=241531


Elsewhere people have posted the BMW NA sales tanked across the board in early 2008. BMW ran some last minute incentives in February to help dealers move cars. I don't have exact numbers though.
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 03-30-2008 at 09:49 AM.
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  #280  
Old 03-30-2008, 11:25 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Back-fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
Hard data are good.

Fester FDMeloan has been posting unit sales results for many years. BMW NA recently pulled the plug on monthly data. December 2007 is the last month he posted sales results.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=253407

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=241531


Elsewhere people have posted the BMW NA sales tanked across the board in early 2008. BMW ran some last minute incentives in February to help dealers move cars. I don't have exact numbers though.
This would be consistent with their recent close mouthed approach with everything. It seems to me that if you are hiding your numbers for sales, then you must not be doing well.

I hope this continues so maybe the decision makers will realize their folly, and get things back on track.

When it all comes down to it money talks, and bull---- walks. A lot of people are now walking.

Again, "Vatkens" we know you are lurking out there. Tell the middle management that their approach is back-firing.
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  #281  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:59 PM
Bobert Bobert is offline
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I noticed the last time the X3 sales numbers were in the black compare to the previous year was back in August 2007. Since then its been all red, with December 2007 sales down over 42% compared to previous year. I think the word is out on the bunk transmission and the sales are going to continue to lag. They didn't resolve the transmission problems in a timely fashion and BMW have suffered for it. I guess the people who actually bought an automatic are suffering too eh?

Last edited by Bobert; 03-31-2008 at 02:05 PM.
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  #282  
Old 03-31-2008, 05:26 PM
viii_ball viii_ball is offline
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Unhappy BMW Made Me an Offer

For the past month I have been in direct contact with a representative at BMW NA about the problems I have (and others obviously) had with my 2008 X3 automatic transmission. The last week things started to heat up and today they finally made me an offer.

They would allow me to turn in the X3 and they would buy me out of the car but I would have to pay the IRS standard rate for mileage on the X3 as of the time I actually turned in the car. I have 5020 miles on it as of today so basically BMW said they would left me out of a DEFECTIVE vehicle for $2400 plus the over $4000 I have already made in car payments. To return an unsafe and not properly operating vehicle they wanted me to pay THEM $6400 or roughly $2000/month for the privilege of driving their ultimate driving machine. I was/am highly insulted. They told me that they were making this offer because I was disastisfied with the car and the BMW states that my car drives as it should. I call BS on that.

My initial counter offer was to have them buy me out of the car, I would pay mileage up to the point where I first reported the problem (1472 miles) and I wanted reimbursement for any monthly payments I had made to this point. To which they responded that NO, the only offer is the one laid out above. I then offered to have them buy me out of the car and no mileage and no monthly payment reimbursement to which they promptly responded NO. I had to accept or decline the initial offer.

I told them I declined their offer as it was not in my nature to pay for a defective and UNSAFE vehicle. I am now forced into my final option and that is to pursue a lemon law claim. Its a shame that it came to this as I thought BMW was starting to recognize they have a SAFETY problem and were working to rectify, albeit quietly, the situation. I am beyond disappointed and not only will I never purchase another vehicle from BMW, I will make sure anyone I come in contact with knows my story and the customer service experience I received from BMW.

I must say that the customer service representative at BMW NA I had working my case was polite, professional and took my requests to management. I think BMW NA Marketing is making a horrible choice here by letting these UNSAFE vehicle remain on the road. One death is going to cost them much more than the return of my vehicle.

All through this process I have remained professional and courteous, never mentioning names of who I was dealing with. But I feel that others need to know not to purchase from Sterling BMW in Sterling, VA (west of Washington, DC) as they were no help what-so-ever in this process and in fact the first service adviser I I dealt with there was downright rude. The service manager remained very professional but certainly towed the company line of "there is nothing wrong with your vehicle". If you look here (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=262130&page=6) you will see a list of the complaints I submitted to my SM and the response I got from the shop foreman. Again I call BS.

One other piece of bad news for you all looking for an actual FIX to the AT problem. I was told by BMW NA there are no plans for any additional software updates BEFORE September of this year.
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  #283  
Old 03-31-2008, 05:54 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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8 Ball this is almost verbatim to the situation I have run into with my dealer and BMWNA. As I am in the middle of a lemon law suit I cannot mention names at this time. And your circumstances are exactly why I filed a Lemon Law Suit.

BMWNA was/is courteous and of no help. It was like fighting the sta-puff marsh mellow man. They smile at you and any forward movement gets stuck in BS

The Sales manager now handles my other warranty claim problems as I was sent an e mail meant for the sales manager from the SA that was unacceptable.

I later found out that his attitude was based on bad marks from my questionnaire from BMWMA. Funny thing is that I had nothing but nice things to say about him and directed all my disssatisfaction with BMWNA, which they redirected to him.

They are offering no more fixes because it will be an additional admittance of wrong doing on their part. If you are have unresolved issues BMWNA has put a moratorium on any future resolutions under "NO PROBLEM FOUND".

Funny thing is that a good number of the people that have been given TA or buy outs that have PM'd me are lawyers. Guess that is the answer.

Last edited by Evlengr; 03-31-2008 at 06:02 PM.
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  #284  
Old 03-31-2008, 07:00 PM
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check out this review on cars.com

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...an_dad_bm.html

the "responders" at the bottom mention the problem.. of course, those people are probably "our" people =)
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  #285  
Old 03-31-2008, 07:35 PM
Bobert Bobert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjboyd View Post
check out this review on cars.com

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...an_dad_bm.html

the "responders" at the bottom mention the problem.. of course, those people are probably "our" people =)
I saw that post a few months ago.. Might as well quote the juicy part:
Quote:
Really, the worst thing about the X3 was the transmission in slow-speed situations. Since I was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic going home, I felt the problem a lot. The transmission really stuttered when shifting through first and into second. It would rev up, then sputter just a bit before kicking forward when it moved into second. I donít know if it was just this vehicle (always a possibility) or something more endemic to X3s. By the time Iíd spent an hour in the X3, the habit was driving me nuts. Even my daughter could sense it whenever we started from a hard stop.
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  #286  
Old 03-31-2008, 07:47 PM
Bobert Bobert is offline
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Here are some of the responses.:
Quote:
I am now driving my 2nd BMW X3 (a 2007 that I got after trading in my 2004 model) and I love it just like I did the 2004 except for one thing -- the herky-jerky transmission. It is especially bad when I let off the gas on an up-hill slope (like at the stop-sign just before entering my neighborhood every night). It does 3 little jerk before coming to a stop. My 04 was a 2.5liter engine which they don't offer any more and the new model has a 6-speed tranny, but I thought that should make it shift more smoothly. I've taken it in to the dealer once and they reloaded the tranny software and implemented a service bulletin on the transmission but it's no better. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Posted by: Diane | Dec 28, 2007 1:22:45 AM

Yes! Our 2007 X3 is in the shop today for the 4th time because of the transmission. It behaves just like yours, Diane. The first 2 times, the dealership did not change any thing because they said they couldn't replicate the problem. The third time they reset the computer's memory (the part that adapts to your driving style) and the transmission was better for about a week. Now, the 4th time, they say that it is software related and they will update it. If that doesn't help, we are going to take a different approach - BMW corporation. As another post said, this is NOT the ultimate driving machine.

Posted by: Anne | Jan 10, 2008 1:06:23 PM

Our 2008 X3 has the same automatic transmission symptoms mentioned here, the dealer says that BMW is working on a fix, and in the meanwhile we have a $40,000 piece of garage furniture. They claim BMW will have a software fix in mid-March.

Posted by: Richard | Feb 16, 2008 3:45:04 PM

The 07 and 08 automatic have tranny problems. Do not wait for BMWNA to fix with updates this has been going on for over a year. The tranny is bad. Please check the NHTSA site for complaints and recalls and file a complaint.
BMWNA is now buying back a number of vehicles to avoid getting Lemon Law complaints on record. There are hundreds of people with this problem. Check a website called "Bimmerfest.com" Don't let the dealer tell you all AWD's drive that way. Or it must be your driving style, etc....

Posted by: Steve | Feb 21, 2008 11:50:46 PM
Garage furniture about sums it up.
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  #287  
Old 04-01-2008, 05:31 AM
viii_ball viii_ball is offline
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Email to BMW NA

Here is an email I sent to my representative at BMW NA this morning.

Ms. XXXX:

First off let me say to you personally that during this whole situation with the automatic transmission issue with our X3 you have been professional and courteous. I hope my frustration with BMW was not reflected in the way I interacted with you. Thank you.

Please pass this note on to your management. I am extremely disappointed with BMW and the offer that was made to me yesterday. I know of no other organization that would make me PAY to return a defective product. You said that BMW NA was offering to "get me our of the car" due to my dissatisfaction with our X3. Dissatisfaction is a rattling window. Dissatisfaction is molding that will not stayed glued in place. Dissatisfaction is peeling paint or a stitch in the leather seat coming apart. My issue is not dissatisfaction.

The lack of throttle response (or power transfer to the automatic transmission) is not dissatisfaction. It is an extremely dangerous situation that is going to get a vehicle occupant killed or severely injured. There is going to be a family that loses an mom or dad or worse, sees mom suffer a debilitating injury due to the defect in your vehicle. I really hope its not my wife or daughter. And I am not being dramatic here. Its going to happen if it already has not. And when this occurs its going to cost BMW a lot more than the return of a vehicle.

A vehicle should not stall when pulling into oncoming traffic. This in not "normal operations" for ANY vehicle and quite frankly I am mad that BMW claims this is the way this car should operate. I have experienced three instances of this occurring in the 4 short months we have owned this vehicle and I can say its very frightening seeing a car coming directly for your drivers side door and not knowing if the BMW is going to accelerate out of the path of this oncoming vehicle. My X3 is not as BMW states, "performing as it should". BMW has released several software updates in an attempt to solve this problem so obviously they recognize the need to address the performance of this transmission.

As of yet I have not contacted anyone concerning a lemon law claim and I truly do not want to go this route as, while I believe I have a legitimate claim and have met the criteria for such a claim, I don't think getting lawyers involved is the proper way to do business.

I would respectfully ask that BMW NA and Sterling BMW reconsider any options that exist to get me out of this vehicle and do not cost me additional funds.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely
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  #288  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:02 AM
14U2NV 14U2NV is offline
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Does this problem occur mostly on D or while on SD as well?
Sorry if this has been covered but there is just way too much information on the subject for me to catch up with. A YES or NO will suffice if someone can take the time.
My lease for an 2005 X3 is up in May and I have already placed an order for an 08 X3 with AT. Since I got my X3 in May of 05 I have always driven it in sport mode (SD). In a handful of instances in the 3 years, while accelerating with the throttle half-way, I have experiences a jerky shift from 2nd to 3rd but this is merely annoying and nothing close to the dangerous issue that is described in this thread.
What of the mid-March software update? is it released yet? has anyone gotten it and seen any difference?
thx
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  #289  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:30 AM
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I found it was at it's WORSE in SD mode.
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  #290  
Old 04-01-2008, 08:36 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Ok first off, there are no more updates being done.

BMWNA claims there is "No Problem Found" with the GM6 AT, so to do anymore updates would contradict this.
This occurs in all modes of the AT transmission except when in SD and actually shifting through gears.

In D mode it is extremely noticeable between 2- 3 gear.

SD when it is downshifting if you do not shift the gears on your own.



In your sales contract there is a clause that does not allow "Buyers Remorse" have them change this as you are stuck with the vehicle if it exhibits the AT issues described.
It essentially says once you take the vehicle its yours, and they wipe their hands clean other than servicing it.

My suggestion would be a 30-Day compromise. If after thirty days it does not exhibit this behavior than, and only then is it yours. If they can't stand behind a break in period then they aren't standing behind "No Problem Found" and are contradicting their own comments.


Let us know what they have to say about that.

Last edited by Evlengr; 04-01-2008 at 09:20 AM.
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  #291  
Old 04-01-2008, 09:24 AM
14U2NV 14U2NV is offline
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Unhappy

I anticipate delivery by end of May, when the current lease ends. I keep my fingers crossed that that there will be some progress for everyone's benefit by then. If not, I will let you know.
Thanks for the advice.
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  #292  
Old 04-01-2008, 05:15 PM
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riod007 riod007 is offline
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Well Guys...


i have been dealing with it for a few months now

i have such lag/hesisationhesisation/ jerk during the 1-2 shift


it has been over to the dealer 5 times for it

i just called bmw NA and they have a regional engineer flying hear to help...

Any Ideas what i should do about all of this

?
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  #293  
Old 04-01-2008, 05:29 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Make sure you are in the vehicle when you go for the test drive. And then get them to acknowledge that it is not normal. Personally, I would tape or video tape the conversation since my level of trust with BMWNA is nil.

Get any response in writing.

Last I am surprised with the "No Problem Found " policy they have adopted that they are actually sending someone out.
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  #294  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:07 PM
MJS MJS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riod007 View Post
Well Guys...


i have been dealing with it for a few months now

i have such lag/hesisationhesisation/ jerk during the 1-2 shift


it has been over to the dealer 5 times for it

i just called bmw NA and they have a regional engineer flying hear to help...

Any Ideas what i should do about all of this

?
Really? For your 2006 Tuned X3 3.0i? Or for your 2007 X3 3.0Si? Which is it today?
You've never been to the dealer. And you don't have a regional engineer flying in to help you.

You really ought to stop posting and give the keys back to your mom.
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  #295  
Old 04-01-2008, 06:32 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Thanks MJS

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS View Post
Really? For your 2006 Tuned X3 3.0i? Or for your 2007 X3 3.0Si? Which is it today?
You've never been to the dealer. And you don't have a regional engineer flying in to help you.

You really ought to stop posting and give the keys back to your mom.
Doh, forgot who we are dealing with. Thanks MJS.
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  #296  
Old 04-02-2008, 04:41 AM
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STE92VE STE92VE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS View Post
You really ought to stop posting and give the keys back to your mom.
I think his PC privileges need to be taken away or at least parental controls need to be instituted where he can only read and not post. A good wouldn't hurt either...
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  #297  
Old 04-02-2008, 06:48 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Money Talks

This says it all:

http://www.x5world.com/x5-e70-forum/...s-figures.html
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  #298  
Old 04-02-2008, 07:57 AM
Sans Nil Sans Nil is offline
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It's strangely gratifying to see the biggest dip is with the X3 sales, by far the largest decline across all BMW. EVen if you think about the price of gas contributing to some of that, the decline is much greater than the X5 so I don't see how that accounts for it. It's clear that more people have heard about the transmission/acceleration issues and wisely passed instead of thinking BMW would be able to fix it.

With numbers like that you would think someone at BMW would wake up realize whatever additional costs they incur in fixing the defective X3's they will still be money ahead when compared against the bigger picture's drop in sales and incalculable damage to their reputation. It boggles the mind they thought the wise move was to not address the problem and thereby think they would minimize it.

BMW, the word clearly got out. It's time to acknowledge the issue. It's time to get it fixed, or give everyone an option to get out. The negative trend in your sales is only going to continue in the years to come if you leave this bad taste in owner's mouths.
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  #299  
Old 04-02-2008, 07:59 AM
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STE92VE STE92VE is offline
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I hope the sales of the X3 continues to decline so that they keep the price constant (or lower) when It comes time to place my order....
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  #300  
Old 04-02-2008, 09:54 AM
doubledeclutch doubledeclutch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STE92VE View Post
I hope the sales of the X3 continues to decline so that they keep the price constant (or lower) when It comes time to place my order....
Same here Looking to getting an '08 in June.
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