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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 02-17-2008, 07:23 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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More electrical woes....

HI all,

You may recall my previous thread, regarding electrical probs...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=259603

Basically, one day I unlocked my E66, and the windows dropped and the sunroof opened. I started the car, and the mileage read 999999 on the odometer. Each time I took the key out of the ignition, the windows dropped, and sunroof opened.
I took the car to BMW dealer, and they charged me 200 to tell me they didn't know what the problem was. I made a bit of a fuss, and they told me they had 'fixed' the problem, by disconnecting the battery, and then reconnecting it.

On the way home from the dealers, my car reported "Drive system failure - Drive moderately".
Over the next few journeys, this message appeared intermittently.
Today, the car reported the same error, along with a bunch of others, relating to parking brake failure, and others which I cannot recall. Within seconds of these errors being reported, the errors cleared from the 'Check' section on Idrive - without even stopping or starting the engine.
I continued along my journey, and the car continued to intermittently report 'Drive system failure', and also the 'check engine' symbol on the dash would illuminate, and the engine would stutter - as though the ignition had cut out for under a second, and 'restarted'.
As I was doing around 70mph on a motorway (highway), the car was acting erratically, and appeared to have an electrical fault causing the ignition to cut-out, and then restart almost instantly. The engine symbol on the dash would also illuminate for a second or so, during this period.

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding a possible cause of the problem?
My battery is old, but still throws out 12.1v with the engine off. There is 14.8v in the system with the engine running.
The battery always starts the car, and I would have thought a suspect battery would have had trouble starting the car (??)

Someone suggested a possibly 'grounding / earthing' electrical problem..... How do I check / fix?

Could it be a software issue?

Any help at all appreciated.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2008, 10:20 AM
johndade johndade is online now
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with all those faults coming on sounds like you have a software issue at the very least.Sounds like a trip to dealer.
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  #3  
Old 02-17-2008, 10:38 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Thanks for the reply.

The first time I went to the dealer, they were clueless. They said they didn't know what the cause of the problem was, because the computer didn't report anything. They recommended I should change the dash cluster, as it showed an error - probably because it showed 999999 miles!!!
Now, however, its reporting all sorts of problems..... including an ignition issue.... when you're doing 70mph, and the steering goes heavy because the engine dies.... its worrying!

Anyone think it could be a battery issue? A lot suggested this initially....
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  #4  
Old 02-17-2008, 11:10 AM
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I do think this is a battery issue - my friend once had a similar exeprience on a much less sophisticated vehicle displaying similair characteristics, and it turned out to be a battery cable. May be a short, but running that down would be a nightmare. I would go out and pull off the battery cables, inspect and clean the terminals, and make sure they are on TIGHT.

Seems like if it was a specific problem, the computer would record a fault.

Good luck.
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  #5  
Old 02-19-2008, 12:27 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Another update on this one......

I found the battery terminals not tight, and tightened them up.
I went out in the car, and got around 10miles away from home, when I got the "Drive Control system failure - Drive moderately" error.

Within seconds the engine started to stutter again, and stall.
I pulled off the motorway, and attempted to turn around.

The car stuttered badly, and the engine was obviously being starved of electricity. The rev counter kept dropping, and the dials were resetting (showing the 'cold' meters around the rev limiters).

I limped the car to the side of the road and called for breakdown recovery.
The recovery arrived, and using 'non-bmw' specialist equipment found no OBD codes (although there may be some recorded only accessible with BMW kit).

Whilst waiting, and with the engine off, I noticed the 'START/STOP engine' button flickering.
It was flickering pretty erraticly. I started the engine, and the engine was dying in line with the flickers from the 'START/STOP' button flickers.

So.... I'm thinking it may be a problem with this button mechanism (given as the key now once again reads 999999, and my windows drop again!).
Is this the CAS module?
Does anyone think it may be this?

Could it be that the whole bus is being starved of power? or possibly a faulty CAS module which is giving me ignition issues?

Very strangely, when I got home, I started the car, and it idled perfectly - no blips no problem.
Seems like the problem is very intermittent, and possibly only occurs when the car has run for a number of miles (??) - Still a bit baffled, but my dealer was pretty clueless when I went to them the first time.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Last edited by Chumpy; 02-19-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-19-2008, 01:25 PM
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I'm not a mechanic ... but I'm guessing it has something to do with the electrical system. You confirmed that the battery cables were not on tight. . this is a problem. Since the car is heavily reliance on power... the fact that you connected the battery secured to the cable caused the car to act up. Perhaps the car needed to reset itself.

Since your battery cable is properly attached now... and your car had time to "reset" itself... I would suggest you drive your car around the house and see if it acts up again. If it doesn't, you probably found your problem.... which was the battery cable.
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  #7  
Old 02-19-2008, 01:40 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Thanks for your reply.
Sorry, it may be unclear.
After my first post on this thread, I tightened the battery connections, and also hoped this had resolved the problem.
However, I made the post tonight (latest post), and it didn't resolve the problem. The car had an electrical problem, that was affecting at least the ignition system, and possibly others.
The problem appears to be that no error codes are being logged, although the Idrive was reporting many errors from Drive Control system failure, Dynamic drive failure, parking brake failure etc.

I just don't know if the bus is at fault, or a device along the bus, or the main power supply (battery?)
The battery starts the car with no problem, so it would appear strange if its that.

Any help appreciated.
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  #8  
Old 02-19-2008, 07:11 PM
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It looks to me more like a CC (central computer problem) but again even a faulty ground connection can mess up things really bad.
If I were you I'd take the car back to the stealer (oops...meant dealer) and ask him specifically to run a diagnostic and retrieve all faulty codes. Since you've been dealing with so many problems I bet that your car's buffer is filled up with error codes.
Also ask your dealer to check and confirm all ground connections in your car.
I'm pretty sure that with a proper set of diagnostic tools, patience and knowledge your dealer shoud get to the bottom of this. Good luck!
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:32 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Thanks for the reply.
The problem is; the guys at my dealers don't seem to have much of a clue if the computer doesn't tell them where the fault is. They just seem like glorified fitters! If the computer says something is wrong, they will change that bit, if not - they're useless!

Dealer charged me 130 to investigate, and then called me to say they didn't know what the issue was. They made me pay the 130 to get my car back, even though they never diagnosed anything!
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:45 AM
745ByMySide 745ByMySide is offline
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Loose battery connections can sometime fry the computer or control module. The electronics in these cars need a constant and "steady" source of power, so if your battery connections are loose they will fry your electroncs. The dealer should be able to diagnose each control module and computer for faults, it sounds like bull $h1t that they can not find the problem when it's signs are clearly visible.
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:48 AM
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perhaps you should carry a video camera with you to record the trouble the next time it occurs...
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2008, 07:08 AM
745ByMySide 745ByMySide is offline
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Any updates chumpy??
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2008, 07:27 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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None I'm afraid.
Trying to get my money back from the dealer who has not diagnosed the problem!

Trying to get Carsoft to work, to see if it reports any errors.
When I connect, Carsoft reports
try to connect (the diagnostic cable reports:-->Bad communication)

Anyone any ideas?
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2008, 08:43 AM
745ByMySide 745ByMySide is offline
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I'm not too familiar with carsoft but I would check the options and make sure the right port is selected.
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2008, 11:11 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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OK - I managed to get it working, and its showing loads of errors!!!
Surely all these things can't be wrong? Surely something central has to be throwing these errors on all these ciruits?

Does anyone have a view?

Does anyone know where I can find descriptions to the codes, which are not described?

Any help appreciated.

Errors reported are:

DME/DDE
2889 - Not described.

Instrument Cluster
931C - Display - Heating (whats this?)
A3B6 - Condition Based Sevicing
A3AD - Engine Data
E111 - Not described.

SIM - What does this do?
9487 - Not described.
93DF - Voltage to low

ABS/ASC/DSC
5F0E - Steering Angle sensor wheelhouse
5EC7 - Not described.

EGS - What does this do?
4F4C - Symptom gear control
51AC - CAS identification signal missing

CAS
A0B0 - Brake light not plausible

Also errors reported on HKL system (what is this?), but I don't know how to get the codes out of Carsoft for this.
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:29 AM
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I would try to PM that info to BMW_Tech and beg for his help. I bet he can solve that one in about 5 seconds.
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2008, 01:18 PM
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Here you go.

The HKL control unit controls the automatic opening and closing of the trunk lid.
It operates in conjunction with the CAS and the PM (Power Module) and is networked in the K-CAN-P bus.
The HKL is located in the right rear corner of the luggage compartment.
The Power Module controls the operation of the trunk lid lock and the soft close assembly as well as signalling (over the K-CAN-P) the requests for opening and closing the trunk from
the external trunk button.
The CAS provides the HKL with the request for opening the trunk from the Remote Control system as well as the passenger compartment trunk button.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf E65 Automatic Trunk Lid Lift.pdf (196.1 KB, 1146 views)
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2008, 02:36 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Thanks for the response.

Do you have any idea what could be the root cause of my issue?

Where did you get the PDF document? They're very useful. Would be good to get a few of them together. Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:09 PM
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chumpy dont you think its time to let the car go. you seem to be having alot of problems.
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny_j View Post
chumpy dont you think its time to let the car go. you seem to be having alot of problems.
+1 - I would of left that thing on a city corner with the keys in the door. insurance can be a good thing.
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  #21  
Old 02-24-2008, 12:25 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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That would suggest you guys think its more than a battery problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diznik007 View Post
+1 - I would of left that thing on a city corner with the keys in the door. insurance can be a good thing.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:06 AM
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i really don't have the slightest clue what the problem could be. the 7 is more complicated than a car should be IMO. i just think that w/ all the error codes and problems your experiencing, it definitely needs to go to the dealer. i don't think a battery swap will do the trick (but I could be wrong). it doesn't sound like somethng you'll be able to tackle on your own. personally, i would raise hell w/ the dealer that you paid 200 and claimed they fixed the problem by disconnecting the battery. tell them you are genuinely scared to drive the car and if anything happens while you happen to be cruising at 100km/hr, they will be held responsible since they told you the problem was fixed and all was OK with your car. i wouldn't drive off the bmw lot until they had every error code/problem fixed. is there a lemon law in the uk?
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
OK - I managed to get it working, and its showing loads of errors!!!
Surely all these things can't be wrong? Surely something central has to be throwing these errors on all these ciruits?

Does anyone have a view?

Does anyone know where I can find descriptions to the codes, which are not described?

Any help appreciated.

Errors reported are:

DME/DDE
2889 - Not described.

Instrument Cluster
931C - Display - Heating (whats this?)
A3B6 - Condition Based Sevicing
A3AD - Engine Data
E111 - Not described.

SIM - What does this do?
9487 - Not described.
93DF - Voltage to low

ABS/ASC/DSC
5F0E - Steering Angle sensor wheelhouse
5EC7 - Not described.

EGS - What does this do?
4F4C - Symptom gear control
51AC - CAS identification signal missing

CAS
A0B0 - Brake light not plausible

Also errors reported on HKL system (what is this?), but I don't know how to get the codes out of Carsoft for this.

There is a smart guy that stated battery issue and he may be right by what these faults suggest.If you had the battery replaced,it's very important that they register battery replacement to rid of the faults in SIM.It seems like you have CAN faults stored in CAS/DME/EGS/DSC/etc..one of these modules caused the BUS to go down or RESET at one point or perhaps currently present.A CAN fault analysis would determine wether it is caused by a module or battery state of health.Unfortunately without a diagnostic tester and a technician that knows what to look for and tests to perform,a simple analysis that would dictate the outcome of the fault in the CAN (communication) would become useless.I would look into the CAS and Instrument cluster closely as they are the center of CAN communication.HKL is the least of your worries,you dont need the trunk to open/close with a push of a button if your cluster is lit up with faults.If I could only beam myself to you,I would.It sucks wanting to help with limitations,it sucks even more when all I can do is give advice and information instead of fixing it.My sincere apologies.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:29 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Thanks for the reply.

I have not had the battery replaced, its actually still the original from the car, so over 5 years old, but still starts the car no problem, and throws out over 12v.

The problem is intermittent, but when it was present, the car would start and then die, and the START/STOP button was flickering, almost like a loose connection somewhere.
Could a bad device on this bus cause it to reset?

Is there a tool for testing the CAN bus?
Is the CAN bus powered centrally from somewhere, or does it get its power from the devices on it?
Would a reset on the CANbus cause the START/STOP button to flicker? Or is a flicker from the START/STOP button light more likely to be power related, than data on the bus?
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
Thanks for the reply.

I have not had the battery replaced, its actually still the original from the car, so over 5 years old, but still starts the car no problem, and throws out over 12v.

The problem is intermittent, but when it was present, the car would start and then die, and the START/STOP button was flickering, almost like a loose connection somewhere.
Could a bad device on this bus cause it to reset?

Is there a tool for testing the CAN bus?
Is the CAN bus powered centrally from somewhere, or does it get its power from the devices on it?
Would a reset on the CANbus cause the START/STOP button to flicker? Or is a flicker from the START/STOP button light more likely to be power related, than data on the bus?
Yes,the flicker would be a CAN related problem.Your CAS may be faulty causing mileage display 99999 which was a known SW issue on 2002 model year only.CAN bus analysis can only be performed using the GT-1.It performs analysis on which module communicated at the very least.Try another extended battery reset before bedtime and reonnect the battery in the morning.If symptoms persists,its time to bring it to the experts.If they need further info or you have any questions,just PM me or post it here and I will do my best to help.Main thing is to get the actual BMW fault codes and performing all the relevant test plans suggested by every fault.This procedure is like turning over every rock until you find it.
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