Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:36 AM
leeS leeS is offline
Registered User
Location: New Joisy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mein Auto: 1999 528it
Question How To Change Secondary Air Vacuum Solenoid??

I've tried searching but can only seem to find very general references to this but not specifics on how to actually access/change it.

I am fixing the secondary air issues on my 99 528it. I have replaced/checked the crusty vacuum hoses, Secondary air pump & valve and put in a new relay.
they all check out fine BUT the vacuum control selonoid seems to be shot and needs to be replaced. Fair enough and I know where it is located under the rear of the intake manifold.

from the images on parts sites (******************, bavauto, realoem, etc) it appears that it has two tabs that screws/bolts/thingys attach it to the bottom rear side of the manifold.
How do you get at those attachments to remove and replace the unit?

Can it be done without removing the manifold &/or a lift (I did find one fellow who did it that way but would REALLY like to avoid that method)???.

As usual,the only images/references I can find to it in the Bentley manual or Realoem diagrams simply have it hanging in space with no relationship to how to actually get access to it and what form of attachment it has.

I can live with some bruised knuckles and working by feel &/or mirrors if it can be done.

what sort of screwy bolt or such is used to hold these units in place?

Also; where does the vacuum hose from the solenoid that returns forward (with check valve) go to? All diagrams have it hanging in space. Does it plug intio the throttle body?


Thanks,
Lee

Last edited by leeS; 02-26-2008 at 07:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:38 AM
jfive96 jfive96 is offline
Connections Etc.
Location: Grand Prairie,Texas
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 128
Send a message via MSN to jfive96 Send a message via Yahoo to jfive96
Mein Auto: 1998 528i
- -Can you provide a link or a pic of the part you are asking about please.- -
__________________
* *Guns Don't Kill People, Crazy Mutherf*%$ers Like Me Kill Theives!!!!!!* *
"Connections Etc." I got what you need! Get at me!!!
I'm Rich B@*#$h!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-26-2008, 07:48 AM
easyover easyover is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: AZ
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 148
Mein Auto: '00 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeS View Post
I've tried searching but can only seem to find very general references to this but not any from someone who has had to.

I am fixing the secondary air issues on my 99 528it. I have replaced/checked the crusty vacuum hoses, Secoandry air pump & valve and put in a new relay.
hey all check out fine BUT the vacuumc ontrol selonoid seems to be shot and needs to be replaced. Fair enough and I know where it is located under the rear of the intake manifold.

from the images on parts sties (******************, bavauto, realoem, etc) it appears that it has tow tabs that screws/bolts/thingys attach it to the bottom side of the manifold.
How do you get at those attachemnts to remove and replace the unit?

Can it be done without removing the manifold &/or a lift (I did find one fellow who did it that way)???.

As usual,the only images/references I can find to it in theBentley manual or Realoem diagrams simply have it hanging in space with no relationship to how to actually get access to it and what form of attchemnt it has

I can live with some bruised knuckles and working by feel &/or mirrors if it can be done.

what sort of screwy bolt or such is used to hold these units in place?


Thanks,
Lee

Remove the cabin air filter box and air duct to get better access to the rear of the manifold. There will be two bolts that atach the bracket to the rear of the manifold. It should take either a T30 or T40 torx bit if I remember correctly. It's not that difficult to remove once you make room for yourself by removing the cabin air bits.
__________________
"Float like a Cadillac, Sting like a Bimmer!" Lightin' McQueen
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:01 AM
leeS leeS is offline
Registered User
Location: New Joisy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mein Auto: 1999 528it
Quote:
Originally Posted by easyover View Post
Remove the cabin air filter box and air duct to get better access to the rear of the manifold. There will be two bolts that atach the bracket to the rear of the manifold. It should take either a T30 or T40 torx bit if I remember correctly. It's not that difficult to remove once you make room for yourself by removing the cabin air bits.
Thanks. I thought that might be the case but REALLY hate trying to get my ham hands under there. I replaced the hoses mostly from feel since seeing anything was not very easy.

any idea on where the hose with check valve attaches to after leaving the solenoid?
That would be hose #7 in the realoem diagram here ( http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...03&hg=11&fg=45 ).

Last edited by leeS; 02-26-2008 at 08:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:13 AM
leeS leeS is offline
Registered User
Location: New Joisy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mein Auto: 1999 528it
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfive96 View Post
- -Can you provide a link or a pic of the part you are asking about please.- -

The only online picture of the solenoid, or change over valve is from ****************** here

this SHOULDbe the same part as the #5 unit on the realoem diagram page I listed. The other sites don;t seem to have a picture.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	generic_apg_1389.jpg
Views:	929
Size:	8.1 KB
ID:	136929  
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-26-2008, 10:26 AM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
Wrenchin' fool ...
Location: nova
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 762
Mein Auto: e39 528it
Quote:
the vacuum control selonoid seems to be shot and needs to be replaced
How did you get to this determination? If the rest of the system has checked out ... are you still getting a code telling you after replacing / inspecting your repairs that there is low airflow or vacuum? Bentley manual have a diagnostic tree that leads you to this component?

What were the signs / issues you were having ...?

High pitched whistle / noise like a jet plane directly related to rpm ...?

*Not questioning your diagnostic skills ... just trying to get info that could help the rest of us I6 guys that may have to chase same symptoms.

Thanks.
__________________
Jason

2000 528iT Sport 5M (mfg. 5/1999) ~ 1990 325iX 5M
BMW CCA member #130075
JScottRacing
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-26-2008, 12:03 PM
leeS leeS is offline
Registered User
Location: New Joisy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mein Auto: 1999 528it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase007 View Post
How did you get to this determination? If the rest of the system has checked out ... are you still getting a code telling you after replacing / inspecting your repairs that there is low airflow or vacuum? Bentley manual have a diagnostic tree that leads you to this component?

What were the signs / issues you were having ...?

High pitched whistle / noise like a jet plane directly related to rpm ...?

*Not questioning your diagnostic skills ... just trying to get info that could help the rest of us I6 guys that may have to chase same symptoms.

Thanks.
feel free to question my typing, skills, sanity or anything else. It has been my lot in life since becoming a castoff American ex-telecom techie


I replaced some of the system as parts of general maintainance when initial problem occured.

History/symptoms; I picked up a '99 528it with about 90k miles last year. The car needed "some minor attention" since it had apparently had little maintainance aside from changing oil and filters in it's previous life. fortunately, it seemed to be a family car and the basic mechanicals (engine, trans, suspension, etc) were in good shape but needed maintainance that i could mosty do myself.

Some of the obvious general issues that I knew about were old/brittle hoses, asst. O-rings, valve cover gasket, etc.

Once the temps got cool around here the SES light came on. I checked the codes with a Bavarian Auto code reader (aka Peake code tool). I got codes f5 and f6 (secondary air system flow too low for cyclinders 1-3 and 4-6). I searched the forums and found a couple good writeups on the issues as well as an article on it in the winter 2006-07 bavarian auto parts newsletter ( http://www.bavauto.com/newsletter/20...newsletter.pdf ) .

The first thing that I found was rotted vacuum line from the check valve that runs back to the vacuum control valve/soleniod. It was obvious that all vacuum hoses were in same shape and I replaced them all (I hope) mostly by feel and with a mirror but had to pull off the air intake and other stuff to get under the intake manifold.

I checked for air pressure from pump and vacuum from the solenoid on startup (pull hoses off diverter valve at cold start) and fund neither pump pressure or vacuum on that hose and the valve looked funky.

I picked up a new relay since it was a cheap and a likely fail point (it is also easy to replace)

Considering the milage on car and that I would have to pull the front end apart to get at it I decided to pick up a newly salvaged/checked pump and valve and swapped them with the old ones before checking power at the pump plug.

there is power to the pump.
I checked it again after replacing everything but the solenoid. The pump will crank up for about 2 minutes on startup but there is no vacuum coming from the soleniod. I did double check that the power plug to the solenoid is clean and plugged in and the vacuum new lines are installed and snug. according to the diagnostics and simple logic the solenoid is probably bad.
There is no whistle from the solenoid area or otherwise. I can hear the air pump motor and know that it is working and will shut down as it should. the only other noise I hear sounds like an electric fuel pump motor.

I do still generate the fault codes after replacing/checking the rest of it. I reset them and they will come back after the next dead cold start in cold weather (No codes generated if the car has run and been restrated but that is to be expected since the dead cold engine/cold weather requirement for system o activate wouldnot b met).

here are the diagnostics from bavauto. the one thing that they don;t seem to mention is that the cheap 5 prong relay inside the EMS compartment is a common fail point;

Fault Codes Indicating Secondary Air.
Any codes that suggest anything to do with the secondary
air system will be indicating a failure of the
secondary air pump, check-valve or vacuum control
switch, or a vacuum leak between the vacuum control
switch and the check-valve. You may notice a
rough idle when the engine is cold, noise from the
secondary air pump or repeated failures of air
pumps caused by not replacing a failed check-valve or vacuum control valve and
hose. Here's what to do:
Check the vacuum control of the check-valve. Remove the control vacuum line
from the check-valve. With the engine fully cold, start the engine and check for
vacuum at the vacuum line. (You must do this quickly! It would be best to have a
helper start the engine.) There should be vacuum for the first few seconds of
running and then the vacuum should be shut off (by the vacuum control switch)
and should not return. If the vacuum does not shut off, or there is no vacuum,
the control switch may be faulty.

Check the check-valve. Remove the larger hose and the vacuum hose (if
equipped) from the check-valve. There should be no evidence of carbon deposits
in the large nipple of the valve. Start the engine. When the engine is warm, there
should be no exhaust coming from the larger nipple on the check-valve. If there
is carbon in the nipple and/or exhaust coming from the nipple, replace the valve.
Typically, when a secondary air code is generated, the pump has failed. We
have already checked the other main components in the system which, when
they fail, will cause the pump to fail. At this point, we likely will need to replace
the pump, as well. Keep in mind, the pump typically fails due to a prior failure of
the check-valve and/or the vacuum control switch and hose, and will fail again if
the problem(s) is not corrected.

Last edited by leeS; 02-26-2008 at 12:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-26-2008, 12:20 PM
easyover easyover is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: AZ
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 148
Mein Auto: '00 528i
You can check to see if the solenoid is working by disconnecting the vacuum line at the secondary air valve and connect to a vacuum gauge. Start the car cold and you should see about 15" of vac for I believe a couple minutes (cat warm up period), then it will go to 0".

If you don't have vac initially, either the soleniod is bad, or your line is broke somewhere. If you constantly have vac after the timed initial cat warm up period, then the soleniod is bad.

I don't remember if the check valve is before or after the soleniod. It could probably go either way, as long as you put it in the correct orientation.
__________________
"Float like a Cadillac, Sting like a Bimmer!" Lightin' McQueen
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-26-2008, 12:25 PM
easyover easyover is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: AZ
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 148
Mein Auto: '00 528i
Whoops! Looks like you already knew that!
__________________
"Float like a Cadillac, Sting like a Bimmer!" Lightin' McQueen
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2008, 12:30 PM
leeS leeS is offline
Registered User
Location: New Joisy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mein Auto: 1999 528it
Never mind. I just replied to the reply which has been replied to.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-06-2008, 11:33 AM
warkbmw warkbmw is offline
Registered User
Location: canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: z3
I have a similar situation. I have a new pump and a new non return valve and a new relay. I changed all this and than figured out I have no power at my pump. I have a strong vacuum at my non return valve for a couple of minutes. I finally checked for power at the relay socket at pin 2 and found I have no power there.

Does anyone know where I should go from here? Is the dme faulty or does the electric solenoid send power to the relay? I/m at a loss
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-06-2008, 01:37 PM
leeS leeS is offline
Registered User
Location: New Joisy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Mein Auto: 1999 528it
Were you checking for power at the relay pin at cold engine & weather startup or afterwards?

I am not certain but from the desription of the way the relay/pump works it sounds like it would only be sending power thru the circuit, and possibly the relay, during those conditions.

Another possibilty might be the secondary air fuse located under the rug beneath the passenger seat. I'm not certain if there is a way to remotely check that.

Hopefully, someone who actually knows what they are doing will chime in.


BTW: it turns out that my Solenoid does not attach with any screws/bolts but a plastic slip-on clip. The downside was that I couldn't reach the clip on the old one to slip it out and wound up breaking it off. It was easy to hook up the new solonoid but I couldn't get it to slip back into it's hidden little slot. For the time being it works just fine strapped against another hose. I'll worry about making it "pretty" the next time I have work to do and feel like disjointing my fingers and shredding the skin on my knuckles.

The system is hooked up and working properly without throwing any codes.
The mileage even seems to have gotten a little bit better.

Last edited by leeS; 03-06-2008 at 01:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-02-2012, 12:10 PM
tborden tborden is offline
Registered User
Location: Essex Fells, NJ
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12
Mein Auto: 2002 BMW 528iTa
So breaking the old selenoid is preferable to tryign to slip new hose onto it?

Am replacing hoses and thr nipples on that selenoid are a bear to access. One points straight basck--I'm pretty sure that goes directly to the non-return valve or whatever it's called.

But the one that points to the right (as you look at the rear of the engine), well, that doesn't prvoide enough space to put two fingers with the small hose between them. If I could just get it onto the very end, I could probably jam the hose up over the nipple!

Don't suppose anybody's found a better waay to do this, outside of removign the firewall and remainder of the car going back?

Thanks, all.

Tom Borden
2002 BMW 525iAT
220,750 mi.
New Jersey

Last edited by tborden; 07-02-2012 at 12:13 PM. Reason: misspelling and posted twice
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-02-2012, 12:11 PM
tborden tborden is offline
Registered User
Location: Essex Fells, NJ
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12
Mein Auto: 2002 BMW 528iTa
So breaking the old selenoid is preferable to tryign to slip new hose onto it?

Am replacing hoses and the nipples on that selenoid are a bear to access. One points straight basck--I'm pretty sure that goes directly to the non-return valve or whatever it's called.

But the one that points to the right (as you look at the rear of the engine), well, that doesn't prvoide enough space to put two fingers with the small hose between them. If I could just get it onto the very end, I could probably jam the hose up over the nipple!

Don't suppose anybody's found a better way to do this, outside of removing the firewall and remainder of the car going back?

Thanks, all.

Tom Borden
2002 BMW 525iAT
220,750 mi.
New Jersey
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms