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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #101  
Old 06-20-2008, 12:19 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Jamming on the brakes moves the judder from one speed to another

Interestingly, I was able, even in traffic, to jam on the brakes until the ABS kicked in from about 70mph to about 30mph about ten times, and, the judder MOVED from one speed to another.

It's definitely DIFFERENT now. The judder is much less, and, it seems it kicks in at a higher speed and goes away sooner.

I can't wait to find a clear road so I can do the full eight 60-to-10 mph stops and see what that does to the judder ... but I can report that the judder is changing so that's a good development...
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  #102  
Old 06-22-2008, 08:56 AM
rocker540i6 rocker540i6 is offline
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Bluebee, thanks for the very thorough and informative post on your brake job. If you could copy all of your posts you would almost have a complete DIY on the brake job. Great Job.
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  #103  
Old 06-25-2008, 02:10 PM
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Test_Engineer Test_Engineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Is the slice to indicate a horribly gone you're-gonna-die thickness of the rotor? If not, what does the rotor slice indicate?


This is NOT a wear indicator as others have said. It is milling operation that is done during balancing of the rotor. Sometimes you will see spring clips stuck between the vanes to add weight, and sometimes(like with BMW) you will see them milled down in a certain spot to remove weight. It's basically just like balancing a tire, but you are removing wieght, instead of adding weight.
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  #104  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:00 PM
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It makes sense that the cut is a 'balancing' artifact

Quote:
Originally Posted by Test_Engineer View Post
It's basically just like balancing a tire, but you are removing wieght, instead of adding weight.
That makes sense!

As soon as I saw that cut deep in the old and new rotors, I became suspicious as to its purpose because to wear the rotor to that point would be way past the wear limit.

Thank you very much for that astute observation so we all benefit from the knowledge in this thread!

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  #105  
Old 06-25-2008, 11:28 PM
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VinZul VinZul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I noticed from the howto that I referenced that my new BMW is missing the jack point holders (rubber pads under the frame in four spots). All mine are missing. Why would they be missing and do you think it matters?

Anyway, following the previously referenced jack point article, I parked the bluebee bmw on a slight downslope; I then drove the bluebee bmw onto ramps to lift the front end; I then chocked the front and back of one rear wheel; this enabled me to get the jack onto the suggested front center rubber jack point; and then I was able to put jack stands on the two front side frame jack points (which seem to be missing their rubber pads).


did anyone notice the pink shoes and shirt?
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  #106  
Old 07-02-2008, 05:26 AM
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I just returned, at 5am, from a rebedding run on highway 880 in San Jose. Luckily, I was able to get rid of most of the brake judder by using the aforementioned re-bedding procedures.

It was frustrating though, because, even at 5am, there's so much traffic that I couldn't do the complete 8 full speed 60-to-10 stops in quick succession, without some car running up behind me during the breaking.

Wierdly, instead of passing by me on the other two lanes (I was in the middle lane for safety in case I lost control which I never did even though the ABS kicked in almost every time), cars would SLOW DOWN and just follow me (as if they couldn't figure out what I'd do next).

I kept inadvertently mumbling "c'mon ... pass me, will ya!" as I didn't want the brakes to cool between stops. I couldn't do five before I had to wait to let the car pass, so I tried it twice for a total of more than a dozen stops but not all in quick succession.

The good news is that the "warped" rotors are almost totally cleared of brake pad poop and I hope there is that good ole' adhesion layer. It's hard to see 'cuz it's still dark outside, but, I'll look in the morning.

Do properly bedded rotors look any different to you than non-bedded rotors? (the articles intimate the color is different). Got a before/after pic?

(I didn't think about that or I would have done it.)
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  #107  
Old 07-02-2008, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
It's fun doing things the right way; learning from all of you; and teaching the next person what we've learned together!
how much did you pay for the torque wrench ? I need one.


becuz.. whenever I screw stuff back i did not pay attention to how tight i had to tighten the nuts... I just did by feel..that it would not fall off or anything.
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  #108  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:26 AM
DavidZ DavidZ is offline
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I did my first DIY front brake job yesterday--replaced rotors, pads and sensor. This thread and the various links were a tremendous help. I used to change the pads (but not rotors) on my old Volvo 240 series so I had a little experience with brakes.

It took me almost 3 hours. Three things caused the delay. The driver side caliper bracket bolts (18mm?) were very hard to remove. They really need a breaker bar. Next, the driver side rotor would not budge and it took about 30 minutes of repeated hammer hits (and lots of WD40) to remove it. Finally, I assumed that because the old outboard pad stayed loosely attached to the caliper bracket when I removed the caliper that I should put the new outboard pad on the bracket first and then try to fit the new caliper with the new inboard pad (attached by clips to the piston) over it. After about 20 minutes of trying to make it fit, I put the outboard pad in the caliper along with the inboard pad and it fit nicely on the first try. The sensor was no problem to replace.

The passenger side rotor (which came right off as soon as the small rotor bolt was removed) and pads took about 20 minutes, if that.
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  #109  
Old 07-05-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboyy View Post
how much did you pay for the torque wrench ? I need one.
It was about thirty or forty USD, shipped to my house. It arrived in a day or two prior to my brake job and I've already used it many times since for all sorts of things so it's paying for itself.

I have both the 1/2 inch and 3/8 inch torque wrenches by the way 'cuz I didn't know which ones I'd need. Mostly I use the 3/8th inch so you might not need the 1/2 inch wrench, but, as I've said before, tools are free when you do your own work and factor in the costs saved.

Bluebee
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  #110  
Old 07-05-2008, 07:20 PM
Jase007 Jase007 is offline
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Wow Bluebee ...

Just read through the whole thread. Congrats on getting it done.

Some things to think about

1. Check condition of the dust boot on the caliper piston when "you are in there". If the boot has deteriorated / disintegrated it is more than likely that moisture has rusted the outside of the caliper pistons. This is a problem when you use the caliper spreader and push the piston back into the caliper to make room for the new pads. When you do this on a rusted piston ... it can tear the inner seal that keeps the brake fluid behind [inside] the piston ... causing a leak. Also, when you force a rusted piston back into the bore ... it can get jammed in there b/c OD of rust on outside of piston is greater than ID of bore in caliper. Doesn't make for a happy caliper. Caliper rebuild kits are available but honestly ... just buy a pro re-manufactured caliper from Nugeon through pelicanparts.

2. Didn't see it in the previous 5 pages but ... remove some brake fluid from the reservoir before you retract the caliper pistons [use the spreader] so that the fluid has some place to go. An even better procedure is to open a caliper bleeder screw, [attach a brake bleeder catch can / bottle with inner tube immersed in clean new brake fluid to the bleeder screw before opening], when forcing the caliper piston back so that fluid isn't pushed back through the system [ABS unit, etc].

I have the motive pressure bleeder and use it all the time as well as alternating between ate blue and ate gold brake fluid. Very handy tool to have to flush / bleed brake fluid. I use alternate color fluids to tell when the old stuff is out and new stuff is in. FYI ate blue dye will stain the hoses on your bleeder [any clear hoses] or bleeder catch can tubes / pipes. Also Note: manual or pressure bleeding doesn't get all the fluid in the system b/c of the remaining old fluid in the ABS pump. That is why Bentley tells you to take it to a shop with correct computer to cycle the ABS pump and get all the old brake fluid out. Works well enough for me though without goin to shop for the last 20+ brake bleeds on ABS equipped cars and trucks.

Good luck.
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Last edited by Jase007; 07-05-2008 at 07:22 PM.
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  #111  
Old 07-16-2008, 03:33 PM
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Brake jobs are so easy. I dont know why people like to over complicate the process. Its almost the same for every car. Remove caliper, remove pads. Compress caliper, insert new pads, mount on rotor. Bleed lines. It's that simple
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  #112  
Old 07-16-2008, 04:44 PM
BoombasticSloth BoombasticSloth is offline
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I would like to applaud BlueBee for his work on this thread. I have done brake jobs on my Honda, and on an MGB but have not worked on my brakes for my 2001540iA. However reading this thread really helps me to get some insight on what to expect, and some things that I would not have expected. Good job BlueBee and much thanks.

Should you find the time to put it into a complete DIY with all your excellent pics and notes on the pics, I am sure many will appreciate it. Good stuff.
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  #113  
Old 07-16-2008, 08:06 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoombasticSloth View Post
I would like to applaud BlueBee for his work on this thread. I have done brake jobs on my Honda, and on an MGB but have not worked on my brakes for my 2001540iA. However reading this thread really helps me to get some insight on what to expect, and some things that I would not have expected. Good job BlueBee and much thanks.

Should you find the time to put it into a complete DIY with all your excellent pics and notes on the pics, I am sure many will appreciate it. Good stuff.


Correction. APPLAUD HER WORK!!!
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  #114  
Old 07-16-2008, 09:23 PM
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Correction. APPLAUD HER WORK!!!
Huh???

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  #115  
Old 07-17-2008, 07:10 AM
Ryan M Ryan M is offline
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Huh???

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  #116  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:01 AM
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antgli antgli is offline
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Bluebee is a woman. Her name is Donna.
Great Job Donna !
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  #117  
Old 11-10-2008, 03:56 AM
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Thanks. I wish I had time to organize and post the many hundreds of photos I took but I'm glad I did what I did when I did it so that if I were to do it again or anyone else, they could start with all these pics that I didn't have when I did have it to do! (mouthful!)

To further complete this thread, here's a cross reference to a nice DIY on the brake calipers themselves.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=3405377
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  #118  
Old 11-16-2008, 09:36 AM
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Here is a nice parking brake & rear brake E39 DIY

Here is a nice parking brake & rear brake E39 DIY from Zeckhausen
http://www.zeckhausen.com/E39_BMW_Re...arking%20Brake

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  #119  
Old 02-23-2009, 08:53 AM
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bmw_n00b13 bmw_n00b13 is offline
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CLEAN YOUR CAR. It's not merely cosmetic, it's a considerable part of your car's value (indicates the car hasn't been cared for) not to mention that you'll end up rust and nasty stuff.

Excellent write-up. There's a midpoint between going at the car with a sledgehammer and researching the development of brakes for 5 years. AND NEVER TORQUE WHEEL NUTS BY FEEL. A local Audi stealer did that, and several customers had wheels fall off while they were driving. Don't be an idiot.
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  #120  
Old 02-23-2009, 09:00 AM
truelies truelies is offline
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You may don't need to change rotors, normally each rotor can afford 3 brake pads. So check it first and not wast a lot of money on rotors.
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  #121  
Old 04-12-2009, 02:01 PM
easyIsle easyIsle is offline
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I find BlueBee's extensive planning and writing invaluable to other DIY'ers, but comical at the same time.. I understand the concept (I do TONS of research on all the BMW forums before ANY DIY job I do), but you are getting a little extreme in some of these comparisons!!

For example: I'm hungry. Should I eat an apple or an orange? Well the banana weighs 34grams vs the oranges 55 grams, but the density of banana's vitamin A content does not match the orange. Then again, the oranges vitamin D content out weights the Bananas. Does that mean I should go with slightly less of a meal to get more vitamin A or is the Vita D more important? => A lot of this stuff is apples and oranges comparison (pun intended)...... pending catastrophic failure, if you dont like the bite of the pads you choose, get other ones next time! No big deal. I tend to just pull the trigger on trivial decisions like that. Although, again, I do understand the reason behind the madness.

Your comparison is much more important for the processes needed to DO the brake job (including those torque specs). Research, document (or cover your laptop keyboard in cling wrap and bring it along), then DO. I understand that.


Anyway, the real reason I'm replying..
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post
Actually, Adapters and extensions will throw off the torque reading. At least that's what it says on the instructions that came with my torque wrench. .... So adapters and extensions are out unless you can provide a documented formula indicating the adjustment needed for using a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter with the torque wrench. I think I'm beginning to understand you Bluebee...
.. here is some documented formulas regarding Torque Wrenches and Extensions (Just saw this in my TW's box last night while doing the CCV DIY, so I figured I'd scan it and post it for the maniac in you . Note the Note in pink ... Interesting!!!!


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  #122  
Old 06-11-2009, 11:22 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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I tend to just pull the trigger on trivial decisions like that.
Thanks for writing your description so well. You covered it perfectly. People's motives are different. And people's personalities are different. Me? I'm a Myers-Briggs one percenter. Only one percent of the people have a personality where the data-gathering and decision-making "brain wiring" is right in the middle. This means I make great decisions - but it takes me a looooong time.

Basically, my data-gathering personality is midway between intuitive (which you appear to be) and sensing (which most engineers are). If I were wholly intuitive, it would be much easier to make a decision (even sans any datapoints); likewise, were I totally sensing, it also would be easy as the data determines the course of action. Being midway gives me the best data-gathering skills but also is the hardest course to steer.

Similarly, my decision-making personality is midway between feeling (which is making decisions based on emotions) and thinking (which is making the decsion based on facts). Again, were I to totally be emotional, it would be easier to make a decision based on feelings; likewise, were I totally thinking, it would be easy based on the facts. But I'm midway.

In addition, the way I relate to the world (strong extrovert) and the way I want the world to relate to me (highly perceptive) means I'm always trying to HELP OTHERS.

Helping others not only takes MORE data, more research, more time, more discussion, but it takes a LOT of energy editing pictures, responding to each post, doing the research and posting the cross references, etc. But, I do it for others. So, it's WORTH it for you to help me because I, in turn, will help others with a lot of effort (you do notice the effort I hope!)

Quote:
here are some documented formulas regarding Torque Wrenches and Extensions
Yippee! That's the kind of additional help for me, and for others. It's good to know!!



BTW, I recently came across these brake DIYs that are similar (but not the same) so they may help others as a cross reference.

E39 brake diy (Rear only)
E36 brake diy


Myers-Briggs DIY ...

Last edited by bluebee; 06-13-2009 at 03:32 PM.
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  #123  
Old 06-11-2009, 11:52 AM
easyIsle easyIsle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
totally irrelevant to the original topic at hand ... but this is me:
INFJ
Introverted 56%
Intuitive 50%
Feeling 12%
Judging 56%

seems I've joined you in the 1%

thanks for the info .. lots of good reading to be done on my personality type.
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  #124  
Old 06-11-2009, 01:21 PM
TheStig TheStig is offline
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Bluebee, here is some good info.


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  #125  
Old 06-11-2009, 03:39 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easyIsle View Post
INFJ. Introverted 56%, Intuitive 50%. Feeling 12%, Judging 56%
You have a strong personality. Yes, it's off topic - but it explains why we do what we do.

BTW, 50% isn't half way. 0% is half way. 50% is pretty highly Intuitive, and not at all Sensing (gathering data). The fact you came up high also on Judging makes sense as that's likely why you posted the posting. You see, you Intuitively know the answer (that's your I) and you have a pretty good idea how others should act (that's the Judging part).

You also wrote that well so you're smart, so it's great you make intelligent decisions rather quickly, and without needing to gather too much data, mainly because of the strength of your Intuitive data-gathering skills (50% I is pretty high on the Intuitive scale) and the lesser (12%) strength of your Feeling (you just "know" the course to take). Note: Less intelligent people who make quick decisions based solely on their intuition are the dangerous ones!)

Me? I'm not that intelligent and, luckily for me, I prefer to make my decisions MUUUUUCH slower ... and (since I'm a supreme extrovert), I let everyone know whatever I can, because I'm basically an ESTP or an ENFP (depending on the test). In fact, I'm really E--P since I'm about 2% Sensing, sometimes about 2% iNtuitive, and about 5% Thinking, sometimes 10% Feeling, depending on how I answer the test questions. I've had professional half-day analysis so that's why the varying numbers). The fact I'm about 2% means I'm almost half way (0% being the half-way point).

Add to the fact I'm hugely Extroverted (way up there in the scale, almost 90%) and very high on the Perception scale at over 80% (others can do as they wish and do not need to conform to how I feel they should), it actually makes us not at all similar (but that's just fine).

The great news about that is we need all types of people in order to solve all types of problems. From those who are introverted and intuitively know the data and feel for the answer and who prefer others to follow suit to those who love to bring everyone in on the game and who gather tons of datapoints and make the decisions based on fact yet don't expect anyone else to act any particular way. We're all people who are wondrously different.

No one personality is better than another; no one approach is any better than the other; we all approach the task at hand in different ways, and, together, the strength is our different outlook, decisions, and expectations.

That's what this community is all about!


Last edited by bluebee; 06-12-2009 at 03:00 PM.
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