135 vs EVO

Originally Posted by InsaneSkippy

Superstock, I don't think I've seen you post one positive thing on the 135i. It seems like you're just browsing the 1 Series forum to post negative threads. I'm not sure if it's intentional on your part or not but it seems a bit odd.

So?

Like someone said before...you can always pass them by.

The car is new so its going to be polarizing.

I'm posting here because I joined after buying a 335 sedan, which I thoroughly love and I thought I would give a different perspective based upon my real world experience. I'm not trashing BMW's in any way, just stating that they are two totally different cars with different end use. The BMW 135 is "the ultimate driving machine", whereas the Evo is the car snobs worst nightmare and the poor mans track equalizer.
BTW, I wasn't intending to trash the Miata, I just didn't like mine as a DD & track car. I hope I didn't offend anyone with any of my comments, just a different perspective.

Originally Posted by peakpro

So?

Like someone said before...you can always pass them by.

The car is new so its going to be polarizing.

There is nothing wrong with him posting the evo comparo.

The Evo is a awesome. I never thought the 135i would beat the Evo in lap time anyways. It isn't as performance oriented.


The Evo beat the new M3 in lap time, THE EVO IS JUST CRAZY GOOD!

Imagine if it was still a light car.

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

There is nothing wrong with him posting the evo comparo.

The Evo is a awesome. I never thought the 135i would beat the Evo in lap time anyways. It isn't as performance oriented.


The Evo beat the new M3 in lap time, THE EVO IS JUST CRAZY GOOD!

Imagine if it was still a light car.

I think thats what I said.

Originally Posted by Sgt Blamo

The BMW 135 is "the ultimate driving machine", whereas the Evo is the car snobs worst nightmare and the poor mans track equalizer.

The new EVO is almost $40k though, so it's not a poor man's car. I do like it, but that's some serious money.

Originally Posted by peakpro

I think thats what I said.

Originally Posted by Chris90

The new EVO is almost $40k though, so it's not a poor man's car. I do like it, but that's some serious money.

Exactly

Ah ok, so blamo has a 335...

Between his post and his listed car as an evo, I wasnt sure if he was just a evo driver who registered to bash on BMWs.

Sorry 'bout the harsh post blamo. It sounded worse than I meant it.

Probably right anyway. None of the new BMWs are getting top marks we all think BMW should have been shooting for. I would have been surprised to see the 135 beat an Evo.

Originally Posted by Chris90

The new EVO is almost $40k though, so it's not a poor man's car. I do like it, but that's some serious money.

If 33k is almost 40k then I don't want you doing my taxes.

The EVO GSR starts at only 33k, the MR is a bit higher. The only difference that I am aware of is the slick DSG 6speed. You can't buy an MR yet, only the GSR.

What will be the speed difference between the MR and GSR? Probably only can tell on the track. The GSR is the car most people will buy and at 33k it is still an excellent deal.

And I LIKE the 128 coupe, it is just a little heavier than I would want. The 135 is the overly expensive toy in my opinion. You are looking at 39k with the options I would want which is only $500 less than the price you can get on a European delivery 335 coupe with the exact same options.

Yes, for people who want a complete stripper version with just sport package then the 36.5k isn't a horrible deal. But honestly, who is going to buy that car? Maybe 100 people? Everyone who "wants" the stripped 135 really just can't afford the car in the first place. They will talk about buying the car but will probably end up buying a CPO car two years from now for 28-30k and get a great deal and get the leather, power seats, and metallic paint that the vast majority of the cars are equipped with.

Originally Posted by superstock

They will talk about buying the car but will probably end up buying a CPO car two years from now for 28-30k and get a great deal and get the leather, power seats, and metallic paint that the vast majority of the cars are equipped with.

You are right on with this assesment. I definetely think the 135 is overpriced, so I'm going to be buying a E36 M3 and wait a while for a CPO 135.

Originally Posted by superstock

If 33k is almost 40k then I don't want you doing my taxes.

The EVO GSR starts at only 33k, the MR is a bit higher. The only difference that I am aware of is the slick DSG 6speed. You can't buy an MR yet, only the GSR.

And the Lancer GTS is $20k, what's your point? The EVO in this review is $38,640, which is almost $40k. That's a lot of money to blow to have to take a car to Mitsubishi's hack shops for service.

Originally Posted by Chris90

And the Lancer GTS is $20k, what's your point? The EVO in this review is $38,640, which is almost $40k. That's a lot of money to blow to have to take a car to Mitsubishi's hack shops for service.

But the GTS does not have any of the turbo equipment or alphabet soup of traction control. The GSR DOES have all of those bits and pieces. I was saying if I went to the two dealerships I would be comparing a GSR to the 135, not the MR (which isn't even out yet). And therefore would be looking at a 33k car vs. a 36k car.

And if you are so worried "hack" shops then you can be comforted by the fact that Mitsubishi offers a better warranty than BMW does by offering 5year/60kmiles. I would trust the EVO engine much more than the brand new x35 engine. It has been tortured tested for years in the EVO IX while BMWs have well reported overheating problems.

Originally Posted by superstock

I would trust the EVO engine much more than the brand new x35 engine. It has been tortured tested for years in the EVO IX while BMWs have well reported overheating problems.

The new EVO engine is the 4B11; reliability and durability have yet to be established. Even the venerable 4G63 had problems with some versions (i.e. crankwalk).

Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by theslik1

The new EVO engine is the 4B11; reliability and durability have yet to be established. Even the venerable 4G63 had problems with some versions (i.e. crankwalk).

Just sayin'.

I was unaware that it was a new engine. In that case I retract my statement with one caveat.

When was the last time BMW offered a turbo model? When was the last time Mitsubishi did? Do you want to fly with the pilot with 20 years of experience or one who just got out of flight school. Experience counts for something so i would still be more comfortable with the mitsubishi engine.

Too bad they can't offer it in a sub 3000lb body. Why can no car maker add lightness? We need a nice good recession to kill this car bloat.

Originally Posted by superstock

I was unaware that it was a new engine. In that case I retract my statement with one caveat.

When was the last time BMW offered a turbo model? When was the last time Mitsubishi did? Do you want to fly with the pilot with 20 years of experience or one who just got out of flight school. Experience counts for something so i would still be more comfortable with the mitsubishi engine.

Too bad they can't offer it in a sub 3000lb body. Why can no car maker add lightness? We need a nice good recession to kill this car bloat.

There's absolutely no doubt Mitsubishi knows turbo engines...I'm a big 4G63 fan and while the 4B11 is probably going to be a solid successor it has yet to make its bones. As far as BMW's effort (with Mitsu turbos I might add ), it looks like the N54's major "bug"...bigger even than the fuel pump issue...is marginal thermal management which could affect long term durability of the engine.

In the past, the MR was slower than the standad Evo going around the track, as the suspension was softer than the standard version. When I bought my 05, I paid $29500 OTD and then Mitsu gave me 2K in free gas, that dropped me down to $27500, I've since put about 10-12000 into the car, parts & labor, 3 sets of tires & wheels(2 track, 1 street), so my total cost is about 37-39K car included. It's a great car for what it is, but it will never be in the same league as the BMW, it's just not a valid comparison, in my opinion as someone who owns both cars.

You are right about the old car but the new EVO is leagues above the 05. It feels much more solid and well built without the constant reminders that you are in an 15k economy car with a 15k engine. The styling is much more grown up though I still don't like the monster rear wing.

I don't think people will cross shop a EVO vs. 335 but it is definitely in the same category as the 135. They are both pocket rockets and are approximately the same price with the same options. One is 4 door AWD and one is 2 door with 1 wheel drive. Do you want the perceived BMW status or the additional capabilites of AWD and 4 doors? In daily driving they are really close in acceleration and feel. (I know the BMW has boost at 1500 rpms vs 3000 rpms but the cars are geared entirely different. They feel very similar.)

The truth is that the success of both of these cars will come down to the success of their cheaper siblings. Both will sell in very small quantities and their continued existence depends on how many Lancers and 128s are actually sold and if they can make money from them.

I just test drove the new Evo, I thought maybe I might like it, boy was I disappointed! No way in the world I would pay 34-35K for that slug! The 335 sedan would spank it off the line, stock for stock! The handling was somewhat numb, although I really couldn't give it my usual flogging, so maybe that's not a fair comparison (I recently took my BMW salesman for a ride in my 05 Evo and my wife says I scared the crap out of him based on the look on his face when we got back). To get the new Evo up to my Evo would take quite a bit of work, although I'm sure that once the power is brought up on line the suspension would likely exhibit stellar performance if what I've heard is true. As a final conclusion, I would say the new Evo looks very nice, especially the new Areo kit that you can order, but I couldn't justify the steep climb over the Evo VIII or IX.

Superstock,

I am really interested in what car you drive. You seem to know everything, your car must be perfect.


Also did you expect the 135i to lap faster than a Evo?

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Superstock,

I am really interested in what car you drive. You seem to know everything, your car must be perfect.


Also did you expect the 135i to lap faster than a Evo?

x2 I was wondering the same thing.

Superstock, I just re-read your comment about the new Evo being "leagues above the 05" and I'm thinking to myself, wow, how could you have come to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just can't see how you could've arrived at that conclusion. Keep in mind that it seems the majority of evo owners modify their cars, so you're not likely to have a stock to stock comparison. I'm not sure that this new Evo will be as "Add on friendly" as its predecessors and therefore may not be able to live up to the reputation of the original model as they responded extremely well to basic "bolt ons". Once you've driven or rode in a properly set up & tuned 05 Evo VIII or a IX, then you will know what I'm talking about, as they are able to do things on the road that few other cars can come close to. When I was driving it, I couldn't help but thinking, "this thing feels much slower than the time I took my 05 out for a test drive, they want HOW much for this thing?!" From the initial test drive, I wasn't impressed, but It might be a different story on the track. One other note: if you're in a stock 135 or 335, in the DS mode and you nail it from a stoplight with the stock 08 Evo, you should definitely pull ahead substantially. JMO

Originally Posted by superstock

When was the last time BMW offered a turbo model? When was the last time Mitsubishi did? Do you want to fly with the pilot with 20 years of experience or one who just got out of flight school. Experience counts for something so i would still be more comfortable with the mitsubishi engine.

Look - I've been a fairly vocal critic of the latest generation of models (including the 1er) for a variety of reasons, but it's time to put the above line to rest. The best part of each x35i model is, by far, the engine.

"Company experience" is irrelevant - who's to say BMW didn't go next door and source a few engineers from neighboring Porsche or VW/Audi to work on the N54? I don't know what industry you work in, but when my company wants to launch a new product, the first thing we do is go out and find the guys who know how to build it. If we can lure them away from a competitor, all the better.

Never mind the fact that BMW was building turbocharged petrol engines in the 1970s and 80s for various race and street applications (e.g. 2002 turbo, Formula 1, E23 745i) and has been building turbodiesels continuously throughout the 90s and 00s. And the turbines themselves are, in fact, manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. Besides, it's fairly obvious that this isn't a particularly demanding technical challenge when you consider the fact that there are tuners operating out of corner garages across the country who regularly develop and sell turbo kits for a wide variety of cars.

Originally Posted by Sgt Blamo

Superstock, I just re-read your comment about the new Evo being "leagues above the 05" and I'm thinking to myself, wow, how could you have come to that conclusion? I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I just can't see how you could've arrived at that conclusion. Keep in mind that it seems the majority of evo owners modify their cars, so you're not likely to have a stock to stock comparison. I'm not sure that this new Evo will be as "Add on friendly" as its predecessors and therefore may not be able to live up to the reputation of the original model as they responded extremely well to basic "bolt ons". Once you've driven or rode in a properly set up & tuned 05 Evo VIII or a IX, then you will know what I'm talking about, as they are able to do things on the road that few other cars can come close to. When I was driving it, I couldn't help but thinking, "this thing feels much slower than the time I took my 05 out for a test drive, they want HOW much for this thing?!" From the initial test drive, I wasn't impressed, but It might be a different story on the track. One other note: if you're in a stock 135 or 335, in the DS mode and you nail it from a stoplight with the stock 08 Evo, you should definitely pull ahead substantially. JMO

Not sure what Superstock was talking about but i have to agree that Stock to stock the new EVO is better than the old EVO IX. I have never driven a highly modified EVO like it sounds yours is but I have autox a friend's stock IX. The power delivery in the EVO has been smoothed out and i can imagine that is going to piss off quite a few turbo lovers. Instead of that nothing.....BANG! power deliver it is much more linear feeling. It is no doubt slower FEELING, but on a track i am confident that the progressive power will be much more controllable. It also looks and feels better than the incredibly cheap looking EVO IX interior.

I am sure EVO was going for a more upscale market and perhaps even people who had the money to afford their car with the new EVO X. Mitsubishi went thru a rough patch in the late 90s due to so many owners defaulting on their loans. They agressively went after the young and tuner market to their eventual dismay. It is like selling things to hippies; eventually you realize you can't make money because THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY.

You can't evaluate a car like the EVO from a dealer test drive; the straightline pull isn't as aggressive as it used to be. (This is WHY I bought the 335, I figured any car with that kind of straightline pull would be fun. Too bad it is such a heavy highway cruiser.) The handling abilites are what sells the EVO and they can't be tested on public roads safetly. If I was looking into getting that car then I would wait for one to show up at a track day or autox and beg or pay for a ride/drive in an environment where you can see what the car is capable of.

Originally Posted by Needagarage

Not sure what Superstock was talking about but i have to agree that Stock to stock the new EVO is better than the old EVO IX.

EVO IX does lap faster than the new EVO X. Stock to stock.

Read this:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=124246


#2: Evo X MR - 1:32.42
#3: Evo X GSR - 1:32.51
#4: WRX STI - 1:32.68

"No. 1 at Willow
You'll notice that the No. 1 car is missing from the lap times listed above. It's not a typo. We brought along a fourth car, a 2006 Lancer Evolution IX MR, to serve as a reality check."

#1: Evo IX MR - 1:31.89

Originally Posted by Needagarage

It also looks and feels better than the incredibly cheap looking EVO IX interior.

Although the Evo X interior is nicer than previous generartions, it is still cheap materials.

"Lows: Needs a telescoping steering wheel, one more gear, and an interior worthy of the price."

"the Evo interior is only a step or two above rental-car banality."

CarDriver comparo:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-4.html

+1 on the telescoping steering wheel, i couldn't get comfortable because my knee hit the wheel everytime i came off the clutch.

But the car is more than just numbers. It is the total feel of the vehicle. The EVO X feels more complete and more solid than the IX. Even if the IX is capable of going around a particular track .53 seconds faster (a VERY small difference) that doesn't mean it is a better car.

The EVO X is more grown up, for better or worse. It no longer has the furious feel and the rental car interior; it is two steps up.