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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #101  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:25 AM
superstock superstock is offline
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Originally Posted by InsaneSkippy View Post
LMFAOWNED!
Is that even English? I think you just proved the closest you came to a BMW was your XBOX.
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  #102  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:35 AM
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Like I said, the difference is $5-6k - negotiated discounts mean nothing, not everyone is going to your dealership and your salesman (if your numbers are even real).

It is kind of fun to shoot down every one of your points though.
How do negotiated discounts mean nothing?!?! Do you make up the difference with make believe money? Does your dealer accept food stamps or monopoly money? When you go to the store and something is on sale do you ask to pay full price?

ANYBODY can get those deals. That was a pretty standard 1k off ED MSRP for the 335 (easily obtained) and a quote I got for a 135 ED. You might be able to get a slightly better deal on the 135 but it would be in the order of hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

Do you have any idea how debating works? You are attempting to frame the argument around MSRP, which is not an actual price paid by anyone. Additionally you are not comparing apples to apples. The reason i added power seats to the car was to make the cars optioned identically. Without that option you are not comparing two cars with equal equipment and therefore you argument is weakened.

And you have failed to address my issue about the rear seat layout being better in the 335 vs. the 135. Simply stating that it is fun to shoot down every one of my points does not make it true that you refuted any of them.
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  #103  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:55 AM
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OWNED is the operative word. I no longer OWN a 335. I did but got rid of it. The European Delivery was too good of an offer to pass up. I bought the car for 39.7k. Sold it for 39k. 8000 miles for 700 bucks is impossible to pass up.
So let me get this straight - on April 8th you had front and rear end damage on your 335i. Two weeks later, you have fixed the damage, sold the car for $39k and bought the Pantera with the money? Damn, it took me 3 weeks just to get the title on my car when I bought it used.

Wait, don't tell me - you sold it as is for $39k, cause you're a brilliant salesman?

Sorry, your whole persona here smells like fish.
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  #104  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:00 AM
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And you have failed to address my issue about the rear seat layout being better in the 335 vs. the 135. Simply stating that it is fun to shoot down every one of my points does not make it true that you refuted any of them.
I included power seats, it's in the premium package. Difference is still $5200.

It's stupid to argue negotiated ED costs when making a broad statement about the price difference between 135i and 335i. The only point you can make is that yes, IF you do ED, then the difference is smaller than $5k. And that's just cause the 1 series is currently taken from regular allocation. That could change later.
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  #105  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:05 AM
superstock superstock is offline
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Long ago? How long ago was the M3 CSL? Didn't seem too long ago.
I am not talking about a package that costs a fortune in order to pull weight out of a car that was overweight to begin with. The M3CSL was more of a lip service to well heeled BMW enthusiats who were dismayed by the weight gain added to the E46 M3. How many people here have M3CSL's? I am pretty confident in stating zero.

When I mention lightweight cars I mean in a general production vehicle that does not cost 70K, come in only 1000 or so models per year and is completely setup for the track.

BMW has not made a truly tossable, lightweight and relatively inexpensive RWD car since the 2002 and E30 3 series. They have steady added weight and luxury at the expense of sport. They still make great engines but those engines are increasingly saddled with more mass. It makes business sense since there is a much larger market and much higher margins in luxury than in sport. Toyota isn't profitable because it makes sports cars.
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  #106  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
So let me get this straight - on April 8th you had front and rear end damage on your 335i. Two weeks later, you have fixed the damage, sold the car for $39k and bought the Pantera with the money? Damn, it took me 3 weeks just to get the title on my car when I bought it used.

Wait, don't tell me - you sold it as is for $39k, cause you're a brilliant salesman?

Sorry, your whole persona here smells like fish.
Front end damage was a stone chip. Rear end damage was repainted, it was a small scratch. The car went up for sale and sold in two days. I sold it BECAUSE i found the Pantera I was looking for and had bought it immediately. Unlike the BMW there are not many floating around and I jumped.

The 335 is still very much in demand, there are almost no used ones for sale on Autotrader. My car looked brand new once it was detailed and was a significant discount from MSRP. Since I didn't have a crazy red interior the car went fast, as I knew it would.
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  #107  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:20 AM
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I included power seats, it's in the premium package. Difference is still $5200.

It's stupid to argue negotiated ED costs when making a broad statement about the price difference between 135i and 335i. The only point you can make is that yes, IF you do ED, then the difference is smaller than $5k. And that's just cause the 1 series is currently taken from regular allocation. That could change later.
Yes, and BMW might make all EDs come from allocation and close this beautiful loophole. They could also decide to charge only 25K for an 135 and make the car a deal.

Lots of stuff COULD happen but arguing about possibilities is logically impossible. Hell, it is theoretically possible that the German government could be overthrown by French revolutionaries and all future BMWs will be FWD microbus's painted in hot pink with a 40hp 1Litre engine. Unlikely but a possibility.

In the realm of reality though if you had the money and went to a BMW dealer today it would cost you LESS to lease a 335 than a 135. And the price difference to own either of the cars would be around 3k. If you want to insist that we only debate in the make believe world of pink French BMWs then you are correct. The price difference is 5k.
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  #108  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:24 AM
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Front end damage was a stone chip. Rear end damage was repainted, it was a small scratch. The car went up for sale and sold in two days.
You know, the problem with lies, is they tend to snowball, and you need more of them to cover up previous ones. $900 to fix a little scratch and a stone chip?

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The quote to fix my paint front and back was $900 so i might as well just double it and get the new parts.
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Last edited by Chris90; 04-24-2008 at 11:29 AM.
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  #109  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:29 AM
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Yes, and BMW might make all EDs come from allocation and close this beautiful loophole. They could also decide to charge only 25K for an 135 and make the car a deal.

Lots of stuff COULD happen but arguing about possibilities is logically impossible. Hell, it is theoretically possible that the German government could be overthrown by French revolutionaries and all future BMWs will be FWD microbus's painted in hot pink with a 40hp 1Litre engine. Unlikely but a possibility.

In the realm of reality though if you had the money and went to a BMW dealer today it would cost you LESS to lease a 335 than a 135. And the price difference to own either of the cars would be around 3k. If you want to insist that we only debate in the make believe world of pink French BMWs then you are correct. The price difference is 5k.
We're not talking about lease deals and ED, we're talking about the price difference between the 135i and 335 - which is over $5000. Case closed, so quit blathering on about nonsense.
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  #110  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
You know, the problem with lies, is they tend to snowball, and you need more of them to cover up previous ones. $900 to fix a little scratch and a stone chip?
which is why i only did the rear end for $400. They wanted to repaint some front end areas as well as hood. I simply touched it up with a friend who does body work. 6 pack and some touch up paint and it was good enough.
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  #111  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:37 AM
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We're not talking about lease deals and ED, we're talking about the price difference between the 135i and 335 - which is over $5000. Case closed, so quit blathering on about nonsense.
MSRP only. And it is only nonsense if you don't agree with me. As I tried to explain before, it is all about framing your argument. You wish to frame it in the terms of MSRP. I prefer actual dollars out of my pocket. Neither of us is wrong, it is simply the framing in which we differ.

Unfortunately for your argument most people care more about actual dollars spent and not theoretical MSRP dollars. There is no way you are going to pay 5k more if you went to a dealership today UNLESS you requested to pay MSRP for the 335 which is currently going for less.

Hence my question if you prefered to pay full price instead of sales price when you went to the store.
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  #112  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:46 AM
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MSRP only. And it is only nonsense if you don't agree with me. As I tried to explain before, it is all about framing your argument. You wish to frame it in the terms of MSRP. I prefer actual dollars out of my pocket. Neither of us is wrong, it is simply the framing in which we differ.

Unfortunately for your argument most people care more about actual dollars spent and not theoretical MSRP dollars. There is no way you are going to pay 5k more if you went to a dealership today UNLESS you requested to pay MSRP for the 335 which is currently going for less.

Hence my question if you prefered to pay full price instead of sales price when you went to the store.


Before you start talking discounts/leases/ED etc, you need to know the correct price difference, I was simply correcting you. You kept mentioning options and power seats, to imply that the price difference is $3-4k with same options. It is not, with identical options it is $5-6k.

Same with your claim of 3 more inches of legroom, it's 1.7" - you tend to exaggerate everything to support your points.
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  #113  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:47 AM
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which is why i only did the rear end for $400. They wanted to repaint some front end areas as well as hood. I simply touched it up with a friend who does body work. 6 pack and some touch up paint and it was good enough.
Give it a rest - nobody really cares what you claim to drive on the internet. It just explains why you hate the 135i, and that's enough for us.
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  #114  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by superstock View Post
IHow many people here have M3CSL's? I am pretty confident in stating zero.
And what is the relevance of that to what we're even talking about? That's right, ZERO.
Your comment that BMW have forgotten how to add lightness is blatantly false. They just choose not to, for this market. Taking your logic a step further, since hardly anyone here (relatively speaking) has a diesel BMW, then it means BMW don't know how to make a good diesel...
BMW have been steadily adding weight...well, which manufacturer hasn't? I don't recall the 2002 being lighter than the 1600 either. And as for being "set up for the track", well, the standard 2002, even the tii, was hardly a track car. Not with 914's, Lotus Elans, and even the Datsun 240Z around.

It's also funny that you should raise concerns about the durability of the 135i's engine when you yourself paid good money and bought a 335i, which has the same engine.
After being corrected on the Motor Trend lap time, the Evo's engine (it's not tried and true), the matter of "When was the last time BMW offered a turbo model?," the Miata, the claim that you have to look outside of BMW for a serious sports car, and valid observations about your posting habits here, you should get the message.

By the way, in your price calculations for the 135i vs the 335i, did you remember to include the OEM 6-pot brake upgrade kit for the 335i? That's got to be at least $2K.
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  #115  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:00 PM
superstock superstock is offline
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And what is the relevance of that to what we're even talking about? That's right, ZERO.
Your comment that BMW have forgotten how to add lightness is blatantly false. They just choose not to, for this market. Taking your logic a step further, since hardly anyone here (relatively speaking) has a diesel BMW, then it means BMW don't know how to make a good diesel...
BMW have been steadily adding weight...well, which manufacturer hasn't? I don't recall the 2002 being lighter than the 1600 either. And as for being "set up for the track", well, the standard 2002, even the tii, was hardly a track car. Not with 914's, Lotus Elans, and even the Datsun 240Z around.

It's also funny that you should raise concerns about the durability of the 135i's engine when you yourself paid good money and bought a 335i, which has the same engine.
After being corrected on the Motor Trend lap time, the Evo's engine (it's not tried and true), the matter of "When was the last time BMW offered a turbo model?," the Miata, the claim that you have to look outside of BMW for a serious sports car, and valid observations about your posting habits here, you should get the message.

By the way, in your price calculations for the 135i vs the 335i, did you remember to include the OEM 6-pot brake upgrade kit for the 335i? That's got to be at least $2K.
The POINT of how many people have a CSL is that if it isn't available then BMW really hasn't commited to lightness. They have no idea how to add lightness. One very limited availability and very expensive option is not adding lightness, it is parting fools and their money. While the CSL was a very good option for the M3 it is not a model. Any manufacturer can offer an extremely limited edition lightened model. I applaud their efforts but it was nothing but smoke as mirrors as the cars have steady gotten much heavier.

For BMW to add lightness it would have to develop a car from the start with weigh savings in mind. That begins with the packaging. Looping the back of a hatch off and calling it a coupe is not the way to save weight as you can see from the 135.

The durability of the 135 or 335 engine is still in question which was also a determination when I sold the car. I wouldn't be comfortable tracking a car prone to overheating without an upgraded radiator, oil cooler and intercooler.

The Motor Trend lap time was originally pulled from the article. Motor Trend corrected it in the article and I apologize for not immediately editing my post when it was updated.

I am not sure who ever corrected me with the miata, i know i have never misspoke about the car.

As for my general posting to be honest it is fun to occasionally piss on a circle jerk. I would do it on 1addicts but those guys take it way too seriously and someone might have a seizure.

As for the big brake kit? If i really need to stop a few feet sooner I would simply swap the seats with racing buckets to save the weight. Unless I really need the boy racer look with BMW emblazoned across my calipers. Maybe they should add some cross drilled rotors to complete the look? The biggest joke about the brakes is that don't seem to offer ANY benefit. According Car and Driver the 135 takes 157ft while the 335 takes 156ft. These are close enough that the cars will be identical.

And please don't go digging for all these reviews which show a 2 or 3 feet better stopping difference. The bottom line is the 6 piston brakes mean nothing. Unless of course you prescribe to the aforementioned boy racer thought process.

Last edited by superstock; 04-24-2008 at 02:15 PM.
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  #116  
Old 04-24-2008, 02:14 PM
superstock superstock is offline
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Give it a rest - nobody really cares what you claim to drive on the internet. It just explains why you hate the 135i, and that's enough for us.
I hate both the 3 series and the 1 series. Equal opportunity hater. The 1 series people are just more fun because they still defend the car. When you say a 3 series is heavy, dead and overly expensive people agree.

What fun is it if everyone agrees?
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  #117  
Old 04-24-2008, 03:19 PM
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I hate both the 3 series and the 1 series. Equal opportunity hater. The 1 series people are just more fun because they still defend the car. When you say a 3 series is heavy, dead and overly expensive people agree.

What fun is it if everyone agrees?
If I flew to Germany to buy a car I hated, I'd feel like an arse.
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  #118  
Old 04-24-2008, 03:34 PM
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superstock,
The CSL was a lightened version of the M3, full stop. To argue otherwise is insane. It doesn't matter how many they sold, the point is that BMW do know how to add lightness. Period. And they have been using aluminum suspension components, composite body materials, aluminum-magnesium engine blocks, and these are not even specialty one-off models. Do you think Mercedes, American companies, or Japanese companies do a better job of adding lightness? Take a look at what today's 350Z weighs; and no, it's nowhere near the 2400lbs of the original 240Z.
Your point about the Mazda was that a simple $250 set of springs fixes it. As Evo found out, that's not the case at all. It still remains aloof, uninvolving (more so than the base Z4 roadster), with glassy steering. To suggest that the Z4M isn't as much a sports car simply because of options available is ridiculous.

So in the Motor Trend comparo, you basically jumped to the specs page, without reading the article and the lap chart. Bravo.

You like to piss off circle jerks, so why don't you piss off the circle jerks in the 5-series forum, or the 3-series forum? After all, you hate the 3-Series too (even though you supposedly bought one). You have 139 posts to you name, and damn near all of them are in this forum, pissing on the 1.
You're pretty much admitting to trolling.

"If i really need to stop a few feet sooner I would simply swap the seats with racing buckets to save the weight. "
So go ahead and price for me the OEM performance buckets. Can you order the 335i this way online? I thought we were talking about stock vs stock here. Or do you really keep wanting to stack the argument in your favor? If you're going to saddle the 135i with useless options like power seats in an effort to ostsensibly find "comparably equipped" cars, then you need to do the same with the 335i so that the two are in fact comparably equipped. Anything else is just padding your argument; ie, bull****ting.
Who knows, maybe with the slightly fatter front tires of the 335i, the 135i might have stopped even shorter. Still, in a same day test, a German mag found the 135i stopped 2 meters (6.6 feet) shorter from 100 km/h. And (and this is just as important for driving pleasure) the 135i ranked higher for brake pedal feel.

I just gotta say, with comments like "Do you want to fly with the pilot with 20 years of experience or one who just got out of flight school" in regards to Mitsubishi vs BMW turbocharging, it makes you sound like an incredible ignoramus. This completely overlooks BMW's Formula One history; their 900-ish bhp 1.5 liter helped Brabham to the championship in the early 80's. It ignores the 35-yearl-old 2002 Turbo, not to mention BMW's expertise during the 1930's with turbojet aircraft engines (which were subsequently copied by the Japanese and adopted into Soviet MiG's).

Last edited by Zdriver; 04-24-2008 at 03:50 PM.
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  #119  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:32 PM
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If I flew to Germany to buy a car I hated, I'd feel like an arse.
Sooo true.
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  #120  
Old 04-24-2008, 08:43 PM
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Was this thread originally about a 135 VS Evo ? Seems slightly off topic if you ask me(and no one did).
BTW, did you guys hear about how adding 22" spinners will make your car faster around the track?
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  #121  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:36 PM
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lol. This is some funny stuff
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  #122  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:00 AM
superstock superstock is offline
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superstock,
The CSL was a lightened version of the M3, full stop. To argue otherwise is insane. It doesn't matter how many they sold, the point is that BMW do know how to add lightness. Period. And they have been using aluminum suspension components, composite body materials, aluminum-magnesium engine blocks, and these are not even specialty one-off models.


I just gotta say, with comments like "Do you want to fly with the pilot with 20 years of experience or one who just got out of flight school" in regards to Mitsubishi vs BMW turbocharging, it makes you sound like an incredible ignoramus. This completely overlooks BMW's Formula One history; their 900-ish bhp 1.5 liter helped Brabham to the championship in the early 80's. It ignores the 35-yearl-old 2002 Turbo, not to mention BMW's expertise during the 1930's with turbojet aircraft engines (which were subsequently copied by the Japanese and adopted into Soviet MiG's).
The CSL was a lightened version of the M3 but it was not available to the public in any meaningful numbers. When I said that BMW didn't know how to add lightness I was not critiqueing their engineering process. Anyone can add lightness but swapping suspension components to aluminum, replacing seats with racing shells and putting on a lightweight tire combo.

If a backyard tuner trying to make his GTO faster in the quarter mile than add in a lexan instead of glass, swap in aluminum suspension components, put on lightweight rims, add an aluminum head, strip his interior and put in racing buckets than of course BMW should be able to do the same thing. Doing something and doing something ECONOMICALLY is the difference. BMW does not think about adding lightness or the one series would come standard with no sunroof, no power folding mirrors. As I said, anyone can take a wrench to their car and remove weight. BMW just charged you 15k for it.

And the I purposely ignored BMW's previous turbo experience because it was so very long ago. Merely mentioning the 1930 turbojet engines is ridiculous. Anyone who worked on that has been dead for years. And my pilot analogy still stands but perhaps I should have clarified it. I meant a pilot with 20 years of continuous experience (ie he was flying 20,10, and 5 years ago). BMW is more like the guy who went to flight school over 20 years ago, flies for a while, and then changed careers to be a pastry chef. Picking up those skills after so many years is not going to be immediate or easy. They will be able to do it but I would still be hesitant to be on that first flight.

So no, i don't believe that makes me an ignoramus. BMW's misstep with the oil cooler proves that they have inexperience in the turbo field and there may be other issues with the engines eventually. Perhaps they got lucky out of the gate and only had the one issue (and the bad High Pressure Fuel Pumps) but perhaps not. Time will tell but I wouldn't put blind faith in BMW's turbo just yet.
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  #123  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:06 AM
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If I flew to Germany to buy a car I hated, I'd feel like an arse.
Didn't hate it at first but grew to dislike it. Sort of like the really hot girl you meet at the bar but don't want to date too long. Eventually you curb her. No big loss since the ED discount. The only reason i bought new was because of that discount.

And going to Germany was truly the reason i got the car. I have been 5 times and love it. Figured I would get something fun to drive for the trip and it was great in Germany. Not so much in the States. There just isn't enough road (well paved and with no speed limits) and too many people in the US for the car to really stretch its legs.
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  #124  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:10 AM
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I don't know if turbos attached to diesels are that different from petrol turbos, but over half of BMWs sold today have turbos.

If you believe the rumors, BMW is working on reducing weight in future models. It takes time to do major shifts to respond to the market. The 2nd gen 1 series is coming out in a couple years, and I think you'll see lighter versions in the US market.
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  #125  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:23 AM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,797
Mein Auto: '04 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstock View Post
Didn't hate it at first but grew to dislike it. Sort of like the really hot girl you meet at the bar but don't want to date too long. Eventually you curb her. No big loss since the ED discount. The only reason i bought new was because of that discount.

And going to Germany was truly the reason i got the car. I have been 5 times and love it. Figured I would get something fun to drive for the trip and it was great in Germany. Not so much in the States. There just isn't enough road (well paved and with no speed limits) and too many people in the US for the car to really stretch its legs.
That is the problem with 300 hp cars - the power blows you away on the test drive, but here in New England at least, 99% of the time you're stuck 10 yards behind another car, and you can't enjoy half that power.

You should do the BMW Club's Nurburgring school that's in August every year. Plan a ED for it or rent a track-prepped E46 M3.
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