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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > Z Series > E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)

E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 roadster and coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:28 PM
angrodri angrodri is offline
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Mein Auto: Z4 M Coupe
Z4MC Performance Brake pads

Hi, which pads are available for the Z4M that are streetable and will survive DE track use? Will the OE pads hold up if I just run ATE or Motul fluid?

I know about***********:

- Brembo Sport Pads (but only available for front axle?)
- Pagid Sport Blue (new, available for our application?)
- Ferodo DS2500 (can't seem to find for our application)

I've used Pagid Orange and wouldn't use on the street; Hawk HPS and they fade above 750. How about Porterfield RS-4's or one of the PFC compounds (Z-rated?).

Where to buy your recommendations?

Thanks for your feedback


Cheers

Last edited by angrodri; 04-24-2008 at 10:04 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2008, 03:26 AM
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pal pal is offline
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Got DS2500's from Zeckhausen for my Z4MC ...

http://www.zeckhausen.com/BMW/Z4-M_Coupe_Roadster.htm
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2008, 05:09 AM
Caddyshk Caddyshk is offline
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AXXIS Ulltimates
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2008, 07:26 AM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddyshk View Post
AXXIS Ulltimates
Axxis Ultimates won't "survive" any moderate track use.

Any manufacturer that sells performance pads will be able to supply a set, MZ4 pads are the same as the E46 M3 pads. Performance Friction PF-01, Cobalt Friction XR series, Hawk DT series and HT series, Pagid Orange, Carbotech Panther line, the choices are endless.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:26 AM
angrodri angrodri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Axxis Ultimates won't "survive" any moderate track use.

Any manufacturer that sells performance pads will be able to supply a set, MZ4 pads are the same as the E46 M3 pads. Performance Friction PF-01, Cobalt Friction XR series, Hawk DT series and HT series, Pagid Orange, Carbotech Panther line, the choices are endless.
Thanks, I was going to ask if the Axxis pads would survive...it sounds from my reading like the DS2500's are a good compromise? I'm used to changing pads quickly on Brembo's but don't want to have to do it frequently on the MZ4...it looks like more of a hassle.

The brakes on the MZ4 are the same as the M3 w/ZCP, and I can't seem to find nearly as many pad types. Can you clarify that?


Cheers
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:50 AM
Caddyshk Caddyshk is offline
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AXXIS are fine for "moderate" DE events and day to day driving. There really is no compromise pad available between track and street. If you're going to pound the car on track days prepare yourself for flipping pads - I'm attempting to answer the OP question based on personal experience.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2008, 08:55 AM
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RussRamz RussRamz is offline
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I have/had DS2500s from Ferodo. While they are nice for a street pad, they don't last for the track. I ate through them with 20 laps on the ring and experienced SIGNIFICANT fade after two laps (40 km). If you track don't get a street/track pad, go straight to a race pad and avoid the hassle. I'm going to give Carbotech a shot.
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Last edited by RussRamz; 04-25-2008 at 09:00 AM.
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  #8  
Old 04-25-2008, 09:06 AM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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According to what I've been reading:
If the pedal stays firm but the car doesn't slow down - that is pad fade.
If the pedal goes to mush - that is fluid fade.

So apparently my StopTechs have never faded. The handful of occurrences when I thought I experienced pad fade were in fact fluid fade. Anyway, on the off chance that I wasn't the only one who knew how to tell the difference I thought I'd post it. No sense in upgrading your pads if what you need is better fluid.
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2008, 09:12 AM
Vodka G Vodka G is offline
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i've used the Porterfiled R-S4 but not on the M...it was on a mercedes that i previously had....i had ATe slotted rotors with it...and it worked great IMO......
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2008, 05:15 PM
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jmillet jmillet is offline
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Street OR Track

Quote:
Originally Posted by angrodri View Post
Hi, which pads are available for the Z4M that are streetable and will survive DE track use? Will the OE pads hold up if I just run ATE or Motul fluid?
SNIP
I've used Pagid Orange and wouldn't use on the street; Hawk HPS and they fade above 750. How about Porterfield RS-4's or one of the PFC compounds (Z-rated?).
Where to buy your recommendations?
Thanks for your feedback
Cheers
No such thing a a street pad that will survive DE track use unless you are a novice level driver.
I like the Performance Friction Z-rated pad for daily driving and I currently am running Raybestos ST-43 front and Hawk HT-10 rear for the track. The ST-43 is somewhat grabby but with a little practise can be modulated.
I buy my brake pads from Porterfield Brakes.
Both the PF Z-rated and the Porterfield R4S are street pads and not suitable for intermediate or advanced group DE driving
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  #11  
Old 04-30-2008, 09:13 PM
silversprint silversprint is offline
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The stock pads and fluid are as good as any street pad specially for a novice. I tracked the car at cal speedway completely stock from the dealer. The brakes did fade but they didn't go away completely. The fade was gradual and it was easy to tell when the brakes were going away. You have to keep in mind that the brakes are stock and know when not to go diving into a braking zone behind a expensive ferrari.

I now use Carbotech XP10 brake pads. These are track only. They dust and squeal very loud, but the stopping power they stop exceptionally well and never fade.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:56 AM
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pal pal is offline
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Bringing this thread back to offer some additional feedback on pads.

Carbotech XP-10
I ran the Carbotech XP-10s all around for about 8 track days (HPDEs) and these have amazing stopping power and great initial bite. They have a very good cold bite as well which makes them good for street use, though they are super loud and honk and squeal under light braking at slow speeds (like coming to a light).

What I did not like about these pads is that I found them very hard to modulate- they felt very on/off to me. It was difficult to use them as a "tap and go" pad for those sweeping turns (leading to a tight turn) where you want to tap the pedal to settle the front end and/or get a little rotation.

These pads are also a PITA to bed in and sometimes on track they don't brake smoothly for the first couple of laps and cause judder- its almost as if you are bedding them in every time.

I wore through the fronts in about 8 days and based on reading and talking to tuners like Turner and instructors at the track, I narrowed down my next pad choice to either the Hawk HT-10s or Pagid Yellow RS29s. The HT-10s won out as most recommended new rotors for the Pagids.

Hawk HT-10
These pads don't have that initial bite of the XP-10s, but they transformed my enjoyment co-efficient on the track. They have excellent modulation and the pedal feels like a knob rather than an on/off switch. The release characteristics are also very smooth and predictable and the braking is always smooth.

On the street they squeal, but are quieter than the XP10s.

I am still running the XP-10s in the back as they have life left and plan to switch to the HT-10s or HP+s for next season.

For my driving style the Hawk HT-10s along with a switch to the Brembo LCF 600+ (from Motul RBF 600) brake fluid has raised the fun factor exponentially and I now think our brakes are actually very good.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:21 PM
silversprint silversprint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
Bringing this thread back to offer some additional feedback on pads.

Carbotech XP-10
I ran the Carbotech XP-10s all around for about 8 track days (HPDEs) and these have amazing stopping power and great initial bite. They have a very good cold bite as well which makes them good for street use, though they are super loud and honk and squeal under light braking at slow speeds (like coming to a light).

What I did not like about these pads is that I found them very hard to modulate- they felt very on/off to me. It was difficult to use them as a "tap and go" pad for those sweeping turns (leading to a tight turn) where you want to tap the pedal to settle the front end and/or get a little rotation.

These pads are also a PITA to bed in and sometimes on track they don't brake smoothly for the first couple of laps and cause judder- its almost as if you are bedding them in every time.

I wore through the fronts in about 8 days and based on reading and talking to tuners like Turner and instructors at the track, I narrowed down my next pad choice to either the Hawk HT-10s or Pagid Yellow RS29s. The HT-10s won out as most recommended new rotors for the Pagids.

Hawk HT-10
These pads don't have that initial bite of the XP-10s, but they transformed my enjoyment co-efficient on the track. They have excellent modulation and the pedal feels like a knob rather than an on/off switch. The release characteristics are also very smooth and predictable and the braking is always smooth.

On the street they squeal, but are quieter than the XP10s.

I am still running the XP-10s in the back as they have life left and plan to switch to the HT-10s or HP+s for next season.

For my driving style the Hawk HT-10s along with a switch to the Brembo LCF 600+ (from Motul RBF 600) brake fluid has raised the fun factor exponentially and I now think our brakes are actually very good.

Try XP10 front and Xp8 rear. That tends to take some of the "bite" out of the brakes.

I'm now running Xp8s front and rear and the car they are easy to modulate. They are still pretty noisy.

Also Carbotech now sells prebedded pads. They charge extra. I think it's about $15 more. They don't list it on their site. You have to ask for it.
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:43 PM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
Also Carbotech now sells prebedded pads. They charge extra. I think it's about $15 more. They don't list it on their site. You have to ask for it.
How does one "pre-bed" pads, since part of bedding in pads is the process of transferring a even layer of pad material to the ROTOR?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Carbotech products tremendously. Would just like some clarification on the "pre-bed" process, unless they sell the rotors that go with the pads?
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"Bench racing" about track times driven by professionals are like a bunch of nerds arguing which Princess Leia is hotter, the slave Leia or the no-bra jail-bait Leia. No matter how compelling your argument is, the plain and simple fact is, none of you will EVER get to hit that.
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2009, 05:06 PM
corgicoupe corgicoupe is offline
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I agree with Jim Millet regarding the Performance Friction pads, but I find them satisfactory for DE use as well. (I may not be at his level.) These were suggested to me by James Clay (I know, he sells them), after both he and Seth Thomas rode with me, so I think this suggestion was based on my driving level. I've been doing DEs for about 5 years, but I'm a conservative "old guy". I found both CarboTech and Cool Willys too loud on the street. And the PFZs are more economical and longer lasting than both of those when leaving them on for daily use.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:50 AM
silversprint silversprint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
How does one "pre-bed" pads, since part of bedding in pads is the process of transferring a even layer of pad material to the ROTOR?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Carbotech products tremendously. Would just like some clarification on the "pre-bed" process, unless they sell the rotors that go with the pads?
No idea. They just charge more for them.
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