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Old 05-08-2003, 07:25 AM
FSelekler FSelekler is offline
Location: Maryland, USA
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 526
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Exclamation Some F1 History...

I thought it would be interesting to post some history of F1 GP championships to show manufacturers' successes and otherwise

The history goes to 1950, but I do not have that much time So, I'll list starting from 1974.

Car: McLaren-Cosworth M23
Driver: Emerson Fittipaldi (2nd championship for him after one with Lotus in 1972)

Car: Ferrari 321T
Driver: Niki Lauda

Car: McLaren-Cosworth M23
Driver: James Hunt

Car: Ferrari 312T2
Driver: Niki Lauda
(Lotus is a much faster car this year, but Ferrari wins with unheard reliability )

Car: Lotus-Cosworth 79
Driver: Mario Andretti
(Lotus grabs the win with revolutionary ground effects)

Car: Ferrari 312T4
Driver: Jody Scheckter
(Ferrari's last driver's championship for a looooong time, thanks to ultra-dependable T4)

Car: Williams-Cosworth FW07B
Driver: Alan Jones
(Williams' first success with an Partrick Head-designed innovative chassis)

Car: Brabham-Cosworth BT49C
Driver: Nelson Piquet
(Team owner? Bernie Ecclestone)

Car: Williams-Cosworth FW08
Driver: Keke Rosberg

Car: Brabham-BMW BT52B
Driver: Nelson Piquet
( Piquet gets drivers' title, but BMW looses to Ferrari for manufacturers')

Car: McLaren TAG MP4/2
Driver: Niki Lauda
(McLaren, now, owned by Ron Dennis, gets the title using a Porsche V6 Turbo)

Car: McLaren-TAG MP4/2B
Driver: Alain Prost

Car: McLaren-Porsche MP4/2C
Driver: Alain Prost

Car: Williams-Honda FW11B
Driver: Nelson Piquet

Car: McLaren-Honda MP4/4
Driver: Ayrton Senna
(The combination is just unbeatable)

Car: McLaren-Honda MP4/5
Driver: Alain Prost
(The combination is again unbeatable)

Car: McLaren-Honda MP4/5B
Driver: Ayrton Senna
(Now, the only excitement is watching the teammates Prost and Senna go at one another without any team orders; every one else, not even a contender)

Car: McLaren Honda MP4/6
Driver: Ayrton Senna
(No need for more comments )

Car: Williams-Renault FW14B
Driver: Nigel Mansell
(first "active" car)

Car: Williams-Renault FW15C
Driver: Alain Prost

Car: Benetton-Cosworth B194
Driver: Michael Schumacher
(The Schumi era is here!)

Car: Benetton-Renault B195
Driver: Michael Schumacher
(a lot of controversy)

Car: Wiliams-Renault FW18
Driver: Damon Hill
(first son-of-a-champion win)

Car: Williams-Renault FW19
Driver: Jacques Villeneuve
(I was sure this was a fluke, he should not have won, and never has since then)

Car: McLaren-Mercedes MP4-13
Driver: Mika Hakkinen
(Forty years after Fangio's triumphs of the mid-50's, the Silver Arrow is at the top again)

Car: McLaren-Mercedes MP4-14
Driver: Mika Hakkinen

Car: Ferrari F1-2000
Driver: Michael Schumacher
(At last, 21 years later, Ferrari is it!)

Car: Ferrari F1-2001
Driver: Michael Schumacher
(unbelievable combination)

Car: Ferrari F1-2002
Driver: Michael Schumacher
(We know all to well and remember )

There you have it.

The only major European manufacturer not to get the title: BMW. Sad. And that's why they better get it this time and soon.

Last edited by FSelekler; 05-08-2003 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 05-08-2003, 02:49 PM
a.k.a. Jorg Muller a.k.a. Jorg Muller is offline
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Throw in the all Constructors Winners

Of note since I started following the sport in 84 are Williams winning the constructors title in 86 but losing the driver's title when Nigel's tire blew in Adelaide, 94 Williams wins the constructors title even though Spoonface wins the driver's title by punting Hill, 99 McLaren wins the constructors title even though Spoonface wins the driver's title for Ferrari.

I do not think we'll see BMW in a championship position again. Williams is not the team it once was. The Williams era in the early/mid 90s was spearheaded by Adrian Newey.
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Old 05-08-2003, 05:18 PM
richard richard is offline
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I tend to agree with you about BMW's chances at another championship. Although I've seen it on video, I wish there had been coverage here in the States when Brabham won with the 4 cylinder turbo BMW engine. Man, that must of been one hell of an engine to get 1000+HP. From what I understand the block was the standard road car version. I just don't think they'll stay in the sport very long this time.
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Old 05-08-2003, 07:32 PM
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F1Crazy F1Crazy is offline
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I don't think we'll see BMW leave F1 that quickly. For every major manufacturer selling cars all over the world F1 will still be very attractive marketing tool, especially if they will get more money to cover some of the expenses after Concorde agreement expires. I truly believe that Bernie will find a solution to make everyone happy so there will be no breakaway series.
I'm really hoping for VW to join the series, maybe under Audi banner.

As far as BMW not winning a championship I agree that if they proceed with Williams in current format it will not happen. They have to join forces and work together on the chassis development.
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Old 05-09-2003, 08:37 AM
FSelekler FSelekler is offline
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I am still hopefull about Williams-BMW winning the championship. Williams has incredable chassis design experience that does not rely on just few engineers that may or may not have left :winky: However, I have to agree that they don't seem to be the "old times" Williams either.

BMW has no experience in F1 chassis design, and they have to have a partner in that area. More controlling partnership can hardly fly with Williams or other major chassis firms. Then again, I am not an insider.

I cannot explain why exactly, may be Jorg can really understand since he has been in to F1 almost as long as I have , F1 competition and championships do play a measurable role in my physchy; I also know that it plays a significant role in car sales in Europe. If BMW gets this F1 adventure wrong, I am affraid they will suffer revenue losses, slowly but surely.

This is also part of the reason Porsche is very hesitant to enter in to it. They are somewhat still not in the clear in terms of financials; even though, they are the "most profitable car company in the world." I do not think they want to risk being 2nd or 3rd in the manufacturers' championship if they enter it. Especially, after all their wins in LeMans and other endurance races. I do however wish they would take the chance
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Old 05-09-2003, 08:51 AM
a.k.a. Jorg Muller a.k.a. Jorg Muller is offline
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F1 dynamics

I still believe that Williams COULD be BMWs best partner in the F1 world. They are investing heavily in new wind tunner/aerodynamic facilities. Frank and Patrick are hard individuals, and quite the task-masters, and they take great pride in their history and drive to return to the top.

I don't necessarily believe BAR could offer any better partnership alternative, that's one I consider that could be a BMW-run and owned team, with everything being done in-house, but it's still a matter of one team of folks in the UK, another team of folks in Munich.

I think part of the issue with Williams is that Frank and Patrick Head (specifically Patrick) are very strong-minded individuals, and reticent to release much of the control and interpersonal dynamics in their team, even without BMW taking a n ownership stake of any kind. I don't
know what Gerhard Berger refers to in that his expressed belief is that BMW could do a better job totally in house.

Watching Toyota's progress would be a good barometer of what it might be like for BMW to do it all in-house, and Toyota has the highly regarded designer Gustav Brunner, and FAR more financial resources than BMW does.
This one is going to be very interesting to watch.

I don't see the sense in Porsche going F1 racing. I would rather see them return to LeMans with another top-level prototype. I've still got a bad taste in my mouth from the pulled 2000 LMP-900 prototype, saying they needed the resources to develop a TRUCK. McNish said the Porsche LMP was VERY good right out of the box...

I think VWAG is a better possibility to enter the F1 game, given their overall size and resources.
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Old 05-09-2003, 03:57 PM
FSelekler FSelekler is offline
Location: Maryland, USA
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Jorg, I agree with you up to the Porsche part

Porsche had to build the truck, again only for financial reasons and I hope they do well.

I just don't get very intrested in prototype racing, specifically the LMP class. Is it not weird? F1 is my favorite and its probably the daddy of all prototypes

Because I am such a fan of Porsche, I would really like to see them in F1, racing head-to-head with Ferrari as in the old days
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:11 PM
fredman fredman is offline
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I know I am 'new' here, and this thread is ancient - even though I may not think JV is one of the top 200 most talented F1 drivers of all time, he still won a WDC in 1997. Fluke or not, crappy drivers don't win championships even when they are in the best cars.

Yes, it takes a great car to put a crappy driver in a position to contend for a WDC, but they still have to DRIVE.
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