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Oh, you're NOT going to believe what just happened to me..

200K views 1K replies 264 participants last post by  Boraxo 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
So, I take my car to Flow BMW (the one that's on Peters Creek Pkwy, in Winston-Salem) to have my tire looked at. Sitting in the lounge, reading my book. A pleasant looking fellow comes out.

- Hi, I'm the general manager, please come with me.

I'm a little apprehensive but follow anyway. Racking my brain, trying to figure out what I did wrong. I don't have a chip in my car or anything, everything is stock... Walk into his office. Dimly lit, there's another dour-looking dude sitting in the corner. He's not smiling, kind of gives me a menacing stare.

- Have a seat.

Ookay then. I sit down.

- Is your alias c-o-o-n-t-i-e on bimmerfest?

I go, "HUH?"

- ARE YOU COONTIE?

I stammer, "Uh.. no." (OK, I wasn't gonna crack on the first question! Once the cattleprods were to come out, maybe then but surely not immediately. Plus, I think I'd be less flabbergasted if he had said, "We have a new M3 we don't need, it's your to keep.")

- Well, we have a reason to believe you are.

Then, he takes out a manila folder and (looking at it upside-down), it's full of my bimmerfest print-outs, certain passages highlighted. He takes a page out.

- It says here you once referred to buying a car at our dealership as "like being sodomized with a broomstick."

I squirm a little and go, "So, you have your own little Gestapo research unit, is that it?"

The sullen-looking dude in the corner (at this point they got the whole good cop/bad cop production thing going on here) says, "We don't like it when people maliciously slander our dealership."

I kinda stammer.. "Well, it wasn't slander, really, I just told people the truth. I didn't like being treated like an idiot by your saleswoman, it just wasn't a pleasant experience. Especially that when I offered $1k over ED invoice to your sales lady over there, she laughed in my face and said she's worked for 15 years and never did ED and no way would I get a 3yr lease for less than $700/month. I then went to Ricki in NY @ DiFeo and leased my car in 10 mins! For the price I wanted! AND! She didn't laugh in my face! So, how about that?!"

The good cop says, "So, you like Dunkin Donuts?"

I go, "what?!"

He says (taking another post from the folder) - right here, you said, "There's a Dunkin Donuts across the street, you can wait there during service."

I'm like, "Ok. SO?" (trying to see if these two really, REALLY hate Dunkin Donuts for some reason. They didn't look like it though.)

(cue in the bad cop)

- Well, when you go buy a donut that costs $3.50, do you offer them three dollars?!

I go, "A car is not a donut, first of all. Second of all, if you're so concerned about good image, why not just offer people fair prices, instead of putting on a whole dog & pony show?"

He says, "Because buying a car is like buying a horse. People have been doing it for centuries. It's called, 'NEGOTIATION.'"

I'm like, "Well, why would you waste my time in the name of this 'negotiation' instead of just selling it for a fair price and be done with it?"

Anyway, this "Waiting for Godot"-like back & forth theater continues for a little bit. Then the bad cop says, "OK, if you hate us so much, you can't come here any longer" or some such thing. I took my book and left, basically.
___

Thinking about it for a bit, I'm sure they were gunning for me for a while. I'm stunned that a dealership would have this Stasi-like group of people, trying to flush out whoever's posting bad reviews about them.

What do you guys think? Incredible, eh?

[Note from Moderator: The owner of the dealership, Mr. Don Flow, first replies to the OP in post #835.]
 
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#939 ·
Diana,
Thank you for taking the time to recount your experiences. I am as disappointed as you to know that our salesperson failed to stay in touch with you and failed to follow through on his commitments. I am certain that when he reads this that he will be equally remorseful and will have a much deeper understanding of the implications of his actions, or lack thereof. Your letter is a clear depiction to me of what I call "dealership shlock." 80% done well and 20% done poorly.

I will be at our BMW dealership in the morning to review with all of the employees the experience of this day on Bimmerfest. Will you allow me to contact you directly tomorrow to talk about your letter?

Don Flow
 
#942 ·
Diana,
Thank you for taking the time to recount your experiences. I am as disappointed as you to know that our salesperson failed to stay in touch with you and failed to follow through on his commitments. I am certain that when he reads this that he will be equally remorseful and will have a much deeper understanding of the implications of his actions, or lack thereof. Your letter is a clear depiction to me of what I call "dealership shlock." 80% done well and 20% done poorly.

I will be at our BMW dealership in the morning to review with all of the employees the experience of this day on Bimmerfest. Will you allow me to contact you directly tomorrow to talk about your letter?

Don Flow
Yes, Mr. Flow, you certainly may contact us. We are business owners as well, and if one of our customers had concerns about our products or services, we would absolutely want them to discuss those concerns with us. We don't have any unimportant customers, and I'm sure you feel the same way.
 
#941 ·
For every horror story you hear about a dealership, there's another person touting them as the Second Coming.

Moral of the story? All dealerships suck. Just hope you get there on a good day. ;)
 
#945 ·
All dealerships suck. Just hope you get there on a good day. ;)
I don't agree with your conclusion. All dealerships don't suck. If that were the circumstance, I would not be on my 2nd BMW. It may take some work to find the good ones, but they are around.
 
#954 ·
I agree.....but I still hate the unknown Gestapo person. No big deal.
 
#957 ·
While I am a boomer, I got my first computer in the 70's and was BBS'ing when arpanet was just for military/university nerds.

So I have always thought what I say can and will be used against me.

However, I have strong opinions. (I am an Ann Coulter fan, so I hope BMWBabe comes back.)

I don't usually express them as colorfully as coontie, but people here routinely try to make the threads entertaining to read and his comments were in response to a question about buying from Flow, so certainly he felt an obligation to provide his view of their pricing philosophy.

Most of us hate the car buying process and seek to avoid or to counter the usual dealer tactics. Dealers need to learn to recognize knowledgeable buyers who have done their homework and know that the Edmunds price is just the average. Some buy higher, but some buy lower. Dealers should not try to BS such potential customers, or wear them down - just decide if they want to make a sale that otherwise they will not. Coontie's first clue should have been when a longtime salesperson said (true or not) she had never done an ED.

Like many Flow customers, for mine I decided to pay higher than the going market as I wanted get mine from a nearby Center of Excellence dealership. My time and potential aggravation was worth paying a few bucks more than the market, but some are bottom line buyers.

Anyway, I am getting distracted from the points I want to make:

1. If your dealer is upset with what you say here, wouldn't you rather know about it rather than them just "getting even" without your knowledge? If they are upset and you learn it and it cannot be resolved (i.e., they do not have a "the customer is always right attitude," you may be better off finding a new dealer. We are now learning that Center of Excellence awards don't mean that much. Not sure of the best way one should learn about this, but it is crystal clear that a gestapo 2 on 1 is not the way.

2. While there are many employees of dealership on the boards in an unofficial capacity, I am not sure how much gets reported to management/ownership, so I am not sure if Flow is ahead of the curve amongst BMW dealership or not. Many may be doing what Flow did, but not confronting people. BMW is lucky to have such involved customers - the feedback here is much better than the usual 5's on the survey. Having dealers (and BMWNA) pay attentions to what is said here will be good for all of us in the long run. Hopefully dealers and BMW are getting information that will improve our cars and the services they provide.

3. To continue to promote the freedom of speech so information can freely "flow" I guess we need to either adopt a devil may care attitude or to make sure we are sufficiently anonymized and to also conceal/modify circumstances as necessary to avoid positive identification
 
#1,006 ·
While I am a boomer, I got my first computer in the 70's and was BBS'ing when arpanet was just for military/university nerds.
I remember the punch card days. :rofl:

However, I have strong opinions. (I am an Ann Coulter fan, so I hope BMWBabe comes back.)
Oh, I am back...now that the villagers have put away the pointy objects that is. LOL You're not the first to mention Coulter. :angel:

I don't usually express them as colorfully as coontie, but people here routinely try to make the threads entertaining to read...
Accounts generally get better with the re-telling. I think it's human nature to play to the audience. We all do it.
 
#959 · (Edited)
Yes, basically I described for Mr. Flow the two experiences we have had Flow BMW. In both cases, both good and not so good things happened. Mr. Flow has responded to my post, and I am expecting him to call me today.

This dealership is like all businesses--things happen that shouldn't happen and unless the owner is reminded of these things, no improvements will take place. Informing Mr. Flow was my sole intention, and he seems sincere in his concern about the events of the last few days.

I typed my post last night after my husband went to bed. He is pretty upset by the fact that I did not handle this privately, and perhaps he is correct. I certainly hope only good will come of this situation. There are so many good things about this dealership and the salesman we dealt with that I am sure that this criticism of them will result in a much improved customer experience at Flow BMW.

I will let you know the results of my conversation with Mr. Flow. He has a wonderful reputation in Winston-Salem, and I'm sure I will be treated with respect. This man seems to be good and decent.
 
#960 ·
There's a dealer in Atlanta that I had an unpleasant experience with when negotiating my ED pricing. I already knew that Adrian was an old pro at ED deals and getting all the paperwork done correctly, but I felt I owed the SA near my work who had given me a test drive an opportunity to earn my business. It would certainly have been more convenient for me to have the dealer near my work (< 1 mile) be the dealer from whom I purchased. Negotiating there was the direct opposite of making a deal with Adrian. I got the "oh, you want to do European delivery?" as if I'd just said I was hoping to get the car for free. With a heavy sigh the SA dug deep into his desk for an old binder that apparently described to him and to me how the process worked. Eventually, after me sitting in silence while the SA read up on how the program worked, he said that he need to "step away for a moment". He comes back with a figure that is about $3K more than what I'd expected Adrian to offer a 'Fester. I said that I was almost certain I could do better at "another dealer", and so then he says he needs to speak to his manager. Another 30 minutes go buy and I'm finally realizing that I'm a victim of typical sales shenanigans. Sweat the potential mark until he gives. He comes back with a figure that's much better, but not good enough for me to just take without due diligence. Adrian saved me over $1000 from this deal.

In the day and age when you bought from the selection of cars on the lot these tactics were expected and just part of the game. The car you wanted was ready to be prepped for immediate delivery and you would be driving it home that night. When negotiating for a car that has not even been built yet, these tactics border on cheesy and downright insulting to the internet-capable shopper. I know this dealership sells tons of cars, so there's no loss to them to charge what they want for the BMWs because people in Atlanta eat them up. I think that Mr. Flow is probably in a similar situation in that there is enough affluence around his dealership that the low-ballers who leave in a huff because they didn't get the deal they wanted (I'd be one of them before anyone gets upset) are far outnumbered by those who take a so-so deal on a car because money is not something they worry about, or they know the excellent service will offset the extra cost of the vehicle.

Finally, the dealer from whom I did not purchase has provided excellent service on the occasions I've used them.
 
#968 ·
I've got one last shout-out to throw in before this thread is locked:

Mods - thank you, and congrats on your exceedingly wise decision to re-open this thread after it was locked the other day. While it looked like things were going off the rails, the fact is by continuing the MONOlogue amongst ourselves, it led to an eventual DIAlogue with Mr. Flow. Everybody won. It was a beautiful thing. It was the most fun I've had on-line in a long time.

The impact of this thread will be felt for a long time. It is legend. It is THE BEST THREAD EVER.
 
#970 ·
I might as well chime in again since I was the 2nd post (never figured it would get this big). I am glad that this was resolved and that Don Flow responded appropriately. It was a pretty entertaining read as well, especially the BMWBabe, what a wacko.
 
#971 ·
As a background chorus of ***8220;Koom Bay Yah***8221; rises, I will make a closing observation. I have considered re-enrolling as ***8220;ThreadKiller***8221; anyway.

I think that most of the posts, and all of Mr. Flow***8217;s comments as to his business practices in pricing and marketing, have not addressed what I feel was the most important point made by the OP: he was making a European Delivery pricing inquiry.

IMO, ED sales have become an altogether different business than direct retail. The dealer has no flooring cost, no advertising charge-back (or whatever the term is these days), the sale does not come from the dealer***8217;s allocation. It is, in a real sense ***8220;found money***8221; for the dealer. It of course also creates service revenue outside that created by annual allocation sales.

Myfirst ED buy last year was much like Coontie***8217;s. I asked my local dealer for their quote for a very specific ED purchase. The sales personnel were great. I have since recommended them by name to several people who were in the traditional local retail market, rather than ED.

My quote came in from the sales manager: full ED MSRP, plus a $400 doc fee.

I have commented on this forum, without broomstick references, about that ***8220;high-ball***8221; quote. The first thing the CA had said to me was a kind of joking complaint that for ED sales they are not allowed to do dealer mark-ups over MSRP. That explains the $400 doc fee, I guess, despite 1) state statute prohibiting doc fees when full MSRP or advertised price is paid, and 2) the fact that the company owning the dealership had months earlier signed a consent agreement and paid a state penalty for excessive doc fees.

So I said no thank you to my local CA friends. I noted to them that their sales manager did them no favor, and I noted the violation of statute in the quote.

Similarly, Flow BMW appears to have treated Coontie as an ED buyer no differently than they treat their traditional sales prospects, and that, to me, is the moral of this story. The dealership failed understand that the ED buyer is a different person and a different market than the local market off-the-floor buyer.

I would encourage Mr. Flow to consider that aspect of this encounter.

There is another moral here. Newton***8217;s Third Law of Motion is often condensed as ***8220;For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction***8221;. CinANC***8217;s Law of the Internet suggests ***8220;For every forum action there is an opposing overreaction***8221;.
 
#972 ·
Well done, Don.

To bravely wade into these shark infested thread waters for the first time under such circumstances and succeed takes an extraordinary understanding of the human condition and mob mentality.

With such business acumen, I'm guessing you won't be long making your impressions/ideas known across your various organizations with this new found virtual market feedback mechanism, and figure out a way to make it work for you from there.

You get my vote. Great to see a 20th century guy leading out in the 21st century connectivity.
 
#975 ·
Are you even reading the posts? I have not seen "flogging" in >100 posts! I do not consider Diana's post "flogging" as it was constructive, and I think Don Flow's response backs this. Maybe there was one flog- the person who asked the thread be closed- oh yeah, that was you.

Here is a great idea. If you are sick of this forum, don't read it. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and feel I learned much from it.

When is the baby due?
 
#981 ·
Oh, my. Now there's a line of Flow guys, waiting to commit hara-kiri in public. Amusing, no? I tend to be a bit of a cynic, actually and will probably not join the Kumbaya sing-along that's kind of unfolding here. Why?

Because I seriously doubt that come next Monday, potential ED buyers will be greeted at Flow with a sight of tux-bedecked waiters, carrying caviar canapés, scurrying along Vivaldi emanating from a string quarter in the corner. I think that because Flow has been pretty successful doing business the way they've been doing it. Why would they change? Winston is a small town. Folks here are happy with a friendly banter, good service and a few hundred bucks off MSRP. I see no reason for Flow to change and they probably won't. I'm sure Don is gonna kick some ass at the dealership for all the embarrassment they've caused him (rightly so) but I doubt we'll see any fundamental shifts in how they do business. That's his prerogative, of course.

And yet, like somebody else has pointed out, an ED is a freebie. An ED + PCD doubly so. Why wouldn't they sell ED+PCD cars at steep discounts? I mean, what does it matter, really? That's a mystery to me.

Finally, even if you discount me as a lying scoundrel, there's still a matter of Diana not only overpaying for her car up front, she also got charged a $400 prep fee, when there wasn't going to be any prep. (Even setting aside the morality of charging a customer $400 for a glorified car wash.) And now we have Mr. Bookie here, rending his garments, and basically re-enacting the Day of Ashura on bimmerfest.

Sigh.

Perhaps it's all in good faith and I just have a warped view of humanity.
 
#983 ·
Like I said before, it is foolish for anyone to pay no more than a little over invoice in this sluggish economy. I purchased my vehicle at a totally different dealership than the one I get it serviced for under invoice. Supply, demand, semantics, blah blah, it was the best decision I made. Service is excellent, they make money off me, and the sale made me feel great. Buying local is overrated. And the local dealers tout the service, which is free anyways the first 4 years anywhere. Yes, the loaner cars, but most dealerships provide shuttles, and in big cities it is much easier, although I have been offered loaners as well, which I decline, b/c they are still a liability, and they shuttle me to work in an X5.
 
#987 ·
This thread's still going, wow.

Are there still unresolved issues here? OP rags on the dealer and washes his car for free from the place he didn't buy it from. Dealer got pissed off and threw him out. Later, the dealer appologized and offerred to wash his car and his laundry for the rest of his life.

Okay, done?
 
#1,009 ·
Last night I posted a lengthy account of my two experiences at Flow BMW. Every word I wrote is true. However, Don Flow had provided his e-mail address, and that is exactly where my comments should have gone! My lack of judgment was profound. I am truly sorry that I did not send my comments to him in a PM or e-mail, particularly since I used specific employees' names. Their privacy is every bit as important as mine.

I sincerely apologize to each employee at Flow whose name I specifically posted on this forum, but I especially apologize to Bookie Binkley. I should have NEVER used his name as I did. I have received and accepted his apology, and I do hope he will accept mine.

Please let me tell you the GOOD things about Bookie. He is very personable, funny, and incredibly smart. This man didn't grow up with a silver spoon in his mouth. He knows how to work hard, and he will work hard for you if you choose to buy a car from him. He searched for HOURS with me on BMW's site to try to find the car I wanted, and when that car never showed up, he was the one who reminded me not to settle for just any car because I was spending too much money to settle.

One Saturday morning I called him and told him I wanted to drive a car with xenons to see if I liked them. I had noticed that there was a CPO with xenons on their lot, and I asked if I could drive that CPO home at closing on Saturday and return it when they opened Monday morning. When I showed up to get the car, Bookie did not have that CPO ready for me. Instead he had a beautiful, brand new 528 cleaned up and ready for me to take home! I bet there are very few dealers and CA's that do this (Don't you all head to Flow and expect to drive a new car home! We had worked for WEEKS to get to this point!!)

I complained about Bookie's lack of calling me. However, the positive side of this is that Bookie is the absolute lowest pressure salesperson I have ever met. If you don't want to be called at home, at work, on your cell, Bookie is your guy. He will leave you alone and wait for you to make the moves. His low pressure approach hasn't hurt him at all. If you want to see him, you had better make an appointment because he stays busy, really busy, and as I said before, this shows that he must be pleasing somebody.

I said that on the day that I was ordering my car that Bookie was in a hurry to get out of the dealership. The reason? He was supposed to be attending a BMW award banquet, and as I understand it, he was one of the top, if not the top, salesperson for the dealership last year.

Hopefully my examples will show that while Bookie made a mistake (for which he has apologized), he is still very, very good at what he does, and Flow BMW is very fortunate to have him.

I want you to know that no one at Flow has asked me to post my apology. In fact, my only contact today with Don Flow was to answer an e-mail in which he asked for a phone number. Bookie has no idea I'm typing this either. It was my choice.

I am not backing down from what I said, but I do regret my choice of airing my dirty laundry with Bookie and the dealership publicly. I should have contacted Bookie privately first, and if I still felt inclined to say more, I should have contacted Don Flow privately as well.

Don Flow has my home phone number and if he chooses to call, I will discuss this matter with him privately, as it should have been all along.

I appreciate the way Bimmerfesters have welcomed the Flow dealership representatives on this forum. They are decent human beings and deserve to be treated with respect.

As far as I am concerned, this is the last I plan to post concerning this, unless Don Flow asks me to post something concerning any conversation we might have.

I hope good will come of this. It has been an emotionally exhausting day for me, and probably for Flow BMW.
 
#1,011 ·
I am truly happy to see so much results come out of this thread. Glad to see Diana getting things on track again with Bookie and im glad to see Mr. Flow come in and do what is necessary to maintain his good reputation. Just goes to show how a bad mistake can turn into a viral non-stop 1000 hit post. But I'm glad to see such a good ending to such a horrifying start.

To those who want to shut this thread down I dont really see the point as this is still on topic and going very smothly. I see the possiblity of more good coming out of this thread (Diana and maybe others).

To Diana I wouldn't be so hard on yourself as this is a very prestige forum with alot of tasteful people (very few aren't) and I dont see any harm coming to Mr. Binkley's career after his heartfelt apology.

+10 to the people of Flow for confronting this head on. :thumbup:
 
#1,017 ·
What if this thread takes on a life of it's own and can't be stopped? :eek:

Then what? Eventually, even the Moderators will be powerless. We've already seen that once. They tried to kill it but, it wouldn't die! :yikes:


What if it takes over the whole bimmerfest site and then the Internet! :dunno:


I wish Al Gore had thought this through.

jummo
 
#1,018 ·
What if this thread takes on a life of it's own and can't be stopped? :eek:

Then what? Eventually, even the Moderators will be powerless. We've already seen that once. They tried to kill it but, it wouldn't die! :yikes:
Cute. And how would the Mods be powerless? The thread was unlocked due to cooler heads prevailing and the decision was ratified with yesterday's developments.
 
#1,024 ·
I just don't understand getting bent out of shape over a dealer's pricing. If you don't like it, walk. BMW's, whether rightly or wrongly, are perceived as being upscale vehicles, and in some communities the dealers who sell them KNOW that the local clientele is willing and able to pay close to if not MSRP for the vehicles. As always it's a matter of supply and demand. As far as discounting ED orders, sure, given that these are not out of a dealer's allocation they can be sold for little over the Euro delivery invoice, but the dealer has no obligation to make that deal to you. If, as a dealer, I'm faced with selling a car at MSRP off of my lot at a huge profit vs doing a bunch of paperwork to make $1000, less the cost of my time to deal with all of the ED paperwork, how would I prefer my SAs spend their time? If you want an excellent deal on an ED car look no further than some of the Bimmerfest sponsors.
 
#1,025 ·
I didn't read all of the above, but some at the begining and some at the end. I live in NC and read some comments on Flow years ago. It basically said "Stay away." Regardless of the guy's failed negotiations on the purchase, the gestapo-like treatment after the fact was incredibly unprofessional. I'm sure there are some good stories out there but I've heard a few horror stories and I'm just glad I don't have to take a chance dealing with them.
 
#1,027 ·
Catching Up

1. Let me say to those who have followed this for the last several days that it has been an enormous learning experience for me. I have found many of the comments helpful and they have redirected several policies of our company.

2. I have been encouraged to see, shall we call it a "humane" side to the conversation. That is, a willingness on all parties to recognize a difference between fallible humanity and malfeasance. That does not excuse us when we perform poorly (which we did) it just recognizes the difference.

3. I bear the responsibility for not ensuring that we have enough insight regarding the online community and how to appropriately engage that community.

4. I bear the responsiblity for not being involved with this thread earlier. I was not aware of it and I had not developed policies for addressing any customer issues that arise in this environment We have detailed processes to handle customer complaints that come to my office from any interaction at our dealerships. These processes involve resolution and follow up with the customer. We sell about 18,000 vehicles per year and we service about 150,000 cars per year. In my office, we strive to resolve any customer issue every single day before we go home. Clearly, we need to incorporate the on line community into this process. Starting yesterday, we have developed a process for engaging the on line community everyday.

5. We need to better train our sales people regarding European Delivery. Historically, there has been a level of complexity that has nothing to do with the customer but involves issues of allocation and the exclusion of certain vehicles by BMW from the process. This is now much simpler. The comments that this is incremental or marginal income is correct as long as the sale does not count against our allocation. From this discussion, we have implemented a new pricing policy regarding European deliveries that is straightforward, clear, requires no management involvement, and fully recognizes the incremental nature of the business.

6. The entire discussion about pricing of automobiles has been very interesting. I am going to take a huge risk and try to wade into that water. I do so because I have found the comments thoughtful, clear, and frank (even when I have not fully agreed with them).

About 20 years ago, I decided that I was uncomfortable with a pure negotiating environment for the transaction of an automobile. It seemed to me that it did not enhance trust between us and the customer. That is, customers who were tough negotiaters paid less than customers who were not. Customers who were less informed paid more than customers who were more informed. While this may be fine for a transactional business where relationships are immaterial and the product is simple, that is not the case in the automobile business. This began my quest to rethink the nature of a "fair" price. To use fancier language, commutative justice requires there by equal value to all parties in the market place. While you can argue that each person determines their own value, my issue was if you put 100 customers in the room who had purchased the same car and you listed how much each person paid, how would they feel about us if there was a big difference in the price they paid from the person sitting next to them.

We live in a capitalist market economy so that does not mean mandated fixed pricing but in my mind it has meant rethinking the selling process of automobiles. So this is what we have done: We start with the regional average gross profit of a specific model retained by dealers in all transactions. For purposes of this discussion, let's call this $2000. We made a decision that we would not sell a vehicle for more than the regional average regardless of what a customer was willing to pay. Therefore, we would not be taking advantage of a customer's trust, lack of negotiating skill, or lack of knowledge. Secondly, we decided that we would not sell a vehicle for less than 66% of the regional average with the following exceptions 1. We have an oversupply of the vehicle and it was diminishing our allocation from BMW 2. We are matching the price of another dealer and it is a present customer of ours or the person was in our market. Therefore, the bandwith in pricing would be tighter and we could say with a clear conscience that no customer was taken advantage of, no customer paid more than he/she should have, and every customer was treated with respect.

Consequently, we have lower gross profit averages than most BMW dealers. To offset this we advertise less and we have less management. Additionally, we average over 80% customer retention so this clearly helps.

This of course means that we will lose deals with customers for whom the lowest possible transaction price is the highest value. On the margin, if a customer shops 10-15 dealerships I am certain they can continue to save some money on every shopping process. You could call that the Walmarting of America (Of course, that does not take into account the opportunity cost of time). Interestingly, most customers don't value the lowest possible transaction prices as the highest value. They do value a fair price that does not take advantage of them, no hassles to the process, and friendly knowledgeable people who provide exceptional personal service.

We are not explicit to the public with this pricing policy. It is how we run our company internally. Everyone on this site is a BMW owner. Should we be clear about this? Is there something you find offensive or inappropriate about this process? Are there blindspots from your perspective as a customer? Or if you feel this is just a bunch of hogwash, I would be interested in hearing this as well. If we can figure a way to get the friction out of the sales process at the retal level then we can focus on what is great about BMW and the relationship with the dealers can go to a new level.

I represent 19 different car manufacturers but I spend an inordinate amount of time with BMW because I love the car (I am personally redoing a 1974 Tii) and I love the customers. They are knowedgable, fun to be around, and they really enjoy their cars. You would be pleased to know that the executives at BMW are the same way.

Thanks again for all of the comments. If you want to weigh in personally with me, please feel free to contact me at dflow@flowauto.com.

Don Flow
 
#1,029 ·
...I spend an inordinate amount of time with BMW because I love the car (I am personally redoing a 1974 Tii) and I love the customers.

Don Flow
Mr. Flow,

You've reached an even higher eschelon of coolness now in my eyes. :thumbup:

Thanks for being a superior businessman, adjusting your business practices according to our feedback (even when it was, at times, a bit harsh...and oftentimes rude). Moreover, kudos for having great taste in automobiles.

I really do think that you have the opportunity to turn this situation into a win-win. You've already quelled 99% of the forum members' concerns. Perhaps you will go the extra mile, and (a) become a sponsor of the forum (to benefit our little community, and also your dealership's reputation / sales), and (b) be the founder of Bimmerfest EAST COAST (the annual get-together that takes place usually on the West Coast, and has even been featured in BMW commercials).

What say you, Mr. Flow?

I'd also like to apologize for any off-color comments I may have made about you, your dealership, and customers such as BMWBabe--earlier in this thread. I am in Georgia, and though I may not choose to drive up to NC in the future, to purchase my next BMW, it is now becoming increasingly more likely! You have won my respect.

Sincerely,
Peter
 
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