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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1001  
Old 07-03-2008, 03:47 PM
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pistolpuma pistolpuma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coontie View Post
Oh, I know it's up to him. I said as much.

I'm just scratching my head why dealerships refuse to discount ED orders. Seems like the cost of paperwork is all that a dealership would incur (plus car prep, I suppose.) I mean, really. How much would an intern putting together a bunch of papers cost??
It doesn't make sense. Don't waste your time trying to figure it out. You bought elsewhere, got a great deal, enjoy it.
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  #1002  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:12 PM
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The HACK The HACK is offline
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Originally Posted by coontie View Post
Oh, I know it's up to him. I said as much.

I'm just scratching my head why dealerships refuse to discount ED orders. Seems like the cost of paperwork is all that a dealership would incur (plus car prep, I suppose.) I mean, really. How much would an intern putting together a bunch of papers cost??
I dunno man, it's starting to REALLY sound like you have an ulterior motive or have a grudge against Flow BMW, and I'm now inclined to believe the "side" of the story you presented may not be the full story.

I was unfortunately personally involved in the now infamous "Savage BMW" incident, and frankly, having been involved, I can honestly tell you all that all is not as it appears, and that there IS two sides to the story. There are certain facts that can not be disputed, such as the said customer's M3 being crashed in a joy-ride by a dealership porter, but in the end I can't really say that Savage is the evil dealership that some on the internet has made them out to be. At least not to the extent portrayed and vilified on the web.

Don't get me wrong, Savage should have dealt and sold the customer a new M3 at dealer invoice to replace the crashed M3 in the first place, and there's a lot that could have been said if the owner of Savage BMW would care about a little customer and show some open communications like Mr. Don Flow here...But don't believe everything you read on the web.

In the end, I think you're actually doing Don Flow and Flow BMW a great service because this is all free advertising for them from here on out.
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  #1003  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:27 PM
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pistolpuma pistolpuma is offline
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In the end, I think you're actually doing Don Flow and Flow BMW a great service because this is all free advertising for them from here on out.
Absolutely right!
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  #1004  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:55 PM
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beewang beewang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coontie View Post
Oh, I know it's up to him. I said as much.

I'm just scratching my head why dealerships refuse to discount ED orders. Seems like the cost of paperwork is all that a dealership would incur (plus car prep, I suppose.) I mean, really. How much would an intern putting together a bunch of papers cost??

I think its fair to say that you have never been in the car biz and you don't know the dynamics to run dealership.Furthermore, the Elasticity of demand is not something an outsider as yourself will be able to comprehend. It may seem like just some paperworks and phone calls. But then again, we can't also charcterize any "professional services" (namely Law , Engineering and Accounting) as just pushing pencils and add some numbers up. Look, I am NOT trying to belittling "the Professional service" trade. What I am getting at is that there are other factors that unknow/unseen to you. You need not beating them on the issue. Its a free country, and if you don't like it, you can just hit the highway and go onto the next willing party...

Last edited by beewang; 07-03-2008 at 04:57 PM.
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  #1005  
Old 07-03-2008, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MB330 View Post
What about BMWBabe IP?

My IP checked out too. Readeth the threadeth!

Now, was I right about Don Flow and company? Huh? Huh? Huh? These folks are top notch.

One thing that people should realize about internet forums is that bad news travels at the speed of sound and gathers flotsom and jetsom as it goes along. Good news rarely makes it out the gate. Such is the unfortunate nature of humanity.

But, all is well that ends well, eh?
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Last edited by BMWBabe; 07-03-2008 at 05:19 PM.
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  #1006  
Old 07-03-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TambourineMan View Post
While I am a boomer, I got my first computer in the 70's and was BBS'ing when arpanet was just for military/university nerds.
I remember the punch card days.

Quote:
However, I have strong opinions. (I am an Ann Coulter fan, so I hope BMWBabe comes back.)
Oh, I am back...now that the villagers have put away the pointy objects that is. LOL You're not the first to mention Coulter.

Quote:
I don't usually express them as colorfully as coontie, but people here routinely try to make the threads entertaining to read...
Accounts generally get better with the re-telling. I think it's human nature to play to the audience. We all do it.
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  #1007  
Old 07-03-2008, 05:58 PM
diana diana is offline
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Originally Posted by bookie44 View Post
Diana,

After reading your comments and doing some soul searching, I realized that I was wrong for not doing a better follow-up with you. Please accept my sincere apology.

Although we at Flow BMW (and I personally) try very hard to make the buying and ownership experience excellent and uplifting, we sometimes drop the ball and I obviously did that with you. Our goal is to give our customers fair prices and premium service and although I think our price was fair, my service (follow-up) was not.

Thank you for letting me know as this will help me do a better job in the future.

Sincerely,
Bookie
Bookie,

Your apology is, of course, accepted. With this exception, you did a good job for us. We spent many hours hashing out options and I know you wondered many times if I ever intended to stop shopping and start buying. Thanks for your patience.

I hope you will read the post I intend to type after this. I have my own apologies to make, and you are affected, too.

At some point I will be back at the dealership for service. If you will allow it, I would like to make my apology in person for airing this so publicly. I was wrong to do that. While our transaction was not perfect, you didn't deserve to have your name posted publicly. I am sorry I used such poor, poor judgment.

Diana (You know the real name)
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  #1008  
Old 07-03-2008, 06:50 PM
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pistolpuma pistolpuma is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWBabe View Post
My IP checked out too. Readeth the threadeth!

Now, was I right about Don Flow and company? Huh? Huh? Huh? These folks are top notch.

One thing that people should realize about internet forums is that bad news travels at the speed of sound and gathers flotsom and jetsom as it goes along. Good news rarely makes it out the gate. Such is the unfortunate nature of humanity.

But, all is well that ends well, eh?
Actually, the facts do support the claims regarding the interrogation. Not sure if I would classify the GSM and his cohort as "top notch." In that respect they are culpable. I think you were equally quick to leap in support without any direct knowledge of the situation.

I just love happy endings...

Last edited by pistolpuma; 07-03-2008 at 08:18 PM.
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  #1009  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:00 PM
diana diana is offline
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Last night I posted a lengthy account of my two experiences at Flow BMW. Every word I wrote is true. However, Don Flow had provided his e-mail address, and that is exactly where my comments should have gone! My lack of judgment was profound. I am truly sorry that I did not send my comments to him in a PM or e-mail, particularly since I used specific employees' names. Their privacy is every bit as important as mine.

I sincerely apologize to each employee at Flow whose name I specifically posted on this forum, but I especially apologize to Bookie Binkley. I should have NEVER used his name as I did. I have received and accepted his apology, and I do hope he will accept mine.

Please let me tell you the GOOD things about Bookie. He is very personable, funny, and incredibly smart. This man didn't grow up with a silver spoon in his mouth. He knows how to work hard, and he will work hard for you if you choose to buy a car from him. He searched for HOURS with me on BMW's site to try to find the car I wanted, and when that car never showed up, he was the one who reminded me not to settle for just any car because I was spending too much money to settle.

One Saturday morning I called him and told him I wanted to drive a car with xenons to see if I liked them. I had noticed that there was a CPO with xenons on their lot, and I asked if I could drive that CPO home at closing on Saturday and return it when they opened Monday morning. When I showed up to get the car, Bookie did not have that CPO ready for me. Instead he had a beautiful, brand new 528 cleaned up and ready for me to take home! I bet there are very few dealers and CA's that do this (Don't you all head to Flow and expect to drive a new car home! We had worked for WEEKS to get to this point!!)

I complained about Bookie's lack of calling me. However, the positive side of this is that Bookie is the absolute lowest pressure salesperson I have ever met. If you don't want to be called at home, at work, on your cell, Bookie is your guy. He will leave you alone and wait for you to make the moves. His low pressure approach hasn't hurt him at all. If you want to see him, you had better make an appointment because he stays busy, really busy, and as I said before, this shows that he must be pleasing somebody.

I said that on the day that I was ordering my car that Bookie was in a hurry to get out of the dealership. The reason? He was supposed to be attending a BMW award banquet, and as I understand it, he was one of the top, if not the top, salesperson for the dealership last year.

Hopefully my examples will show that while Bookie made a mistake (for which he has apologized), he is still very, very good at what he does, and Flow BMW is very fortunate to have him.

I want you to know that no one at Flow has asked me to post my apology. In fact, my only contact today with Don Flow was to answer an e-mail in which he asked for a phone number. Bookie has no idea I'm typing this either. It was my choice.

I am not backing down from what I said, but I do regret my choice of airing my dirty laundry with Bookie and the dealership publicly. I should have contacted Bookie privately first, and if I still felt inclined to say more, I should have contacted Don Flow privately as well.

Don Flow has my home phone number and if he chooses to call, I will discuss this matter with him privately, as it should have been all along.

I appreciate the way Bimmerfesters have welcomed the Flow dealership representatives on this forum. They are decent human beings and deserve to be treated with respect.

As far as I am concerned, this is the last I plan to post concerning this, unless Don Flow asks me to post something concerning any conversation we might have.

I hope good will come of this. It has been an emotionally exhausting day for me, and probably for Flow BMW.
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  #1010  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BMWBabe View Post
But, all is well that ends well, eh?
As soon as you post pics of yourself, this thread is complete.
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  #1011  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:50 PM
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Mk23 Mk23 is offline
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I am truly happy to see so much results come out of this thread. Glad to see Diana getting things on track again with Bookie and im glad to see Mr. Flow come in and do what is necessary to maintain his good reputation. Just goes to show how a bad mistake can turn into a viral non-stop 1000 hit post. But I'm glad to see such a good ending to such a horrifying start.

To those who want to shut this thread down I dont really see the point as this is still on topic and going very smothly. I see the possiblity of more good coming out of this thread (Diana and maybe others).

To Diana I wouldn't be so hard on yourself as this is a very prestige forum with alot of tasteful people (very few aren't) and I dont see any harm coming to Mr. Binkley's career after his heartfelt apology.

+10 to the people of Flow for confronting this head on.
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  #1012  
Old 07-03-2008, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post
As soon as you post pics of yourself, this thread is complete.
That's the last thing that needs to be resolved in this thread except someone has to bring BJ up to speed.

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  #1013  
Old 07-03-2008, 08:29 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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My IP checked out too. Readeth the threadeth!
Yes, your IP was fine (not related).

- Mike
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  #1014  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:07 PM
Fredric Fredric is offline
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A happy July 4th to all, and to all a good night!
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  #1015  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:37 PM
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mrvuml mrvuml is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWBabe View Post
My IP checked out too. Readeth the threadeth!

Now, was I right about Don Flow and company? Huh? Huh? Huh? These folks are top notch.

One thing that people should realize about internet forums is that bad news travels at the speed of sound and gathers flotsom and jetsom as it goes along. Good news rarely makes it out the gate. Such is the unfortunate nature of humanity.

But, all is well that ends well, eh?
Are you the employee that Mr. Flow referred to earlier?
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  #1016  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:48 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Yes, your IP was fine (not related).

- Mike
Her home IP?
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  #1017  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:48 PM
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jummo jummo is offline
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What if this thread takes on a life of it's own and can't be stopped?

Then what? Eventually, even the Moderators will be powerless. We've already seen that once. They tried to kill it but, it wouldn't die!


What if it takes over the whole bimmerfest site and then the Internet!


I wish Al Gore had thought this through.

jummo
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  #1018  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:50 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by jummo View Post
What if this thread takes on a life of it's own and can't be stopped?

Then what? Eventually, even the Moderators will be powerless. We've already seen that once. They tried to kill it but, it wouldn't die!
Cute. And how would the Mods be powerless? The thread was unlocked due to cooler heads prevailing and the decision was ratified with yesterday's developments.
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  #1019  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:52 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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As soon as you post pics of yourself, this thread is complete.
I think not. Either way, pics will only fan the embers of this thread. I wonder if we will get to 2,000 posts?
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  #1020  
Old 07-03-2008, 09:56 PM
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Cute. And how would the Mods be powerless? The thread was unlocked due to cooler heads prevailing and the decision was ratified with yesterday's developments.
I'm sorry. How was I to know that your sense of humor was injured in a childhood accident?



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  #1021  
Old 07-03-2008, 10:28 PM
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Z3Mcoupedriver Z3Mcoupedriver is offline
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Originally Posted by BMWBabe View Post
Now, was I right about Don Flow and company? Huh? Huh? Huh? These folks are top notch.
Uh, you seem to have missed the point...

Bravo Mr. Flow for having apologized. That the apology was not more immediately forthcoming was IMHO a little silly. It took 4 posts to say I'm sorry? Well, I'm glad that everything's back to normal in NC. Good Luck.
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  #1022  
Old 07-04-2008, 03:21 AM
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pistolpuma pistolpuma is offline
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Jummo, just for the record, I laughed.
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  #1023  
Old 07-04-2008, 06:01 AM
Zheeeem Zheeeem is offline
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Originally Posted by coontie View Post
I'm just scratching my head why dealerships refuse to discount ED orders. Seems like the cost of paperwork is all that a dealership would incur (plus car prep, I suppose.) I mean, really. How much would an intern putting together a bunch of papers cost??
I think this applies to an awful lot of retail sales.

When I buy stuff, I tend not to spend too much time thinking about the direct cost of the transaction to the dealer/vendor. Sellers need to mark stuff up to stay in business and to pay their employees. And some stores cost more to operate than others.

I buy stuff at local brick and mortar stores for a variety of reasons, even when I can get the same stuff cheaper elsewhere. I may know people at the store, the store may be good for the local economy, I like the customer service I get, I like the advice I get, I don't want to support the alternatives, etc. etc. For example, I buy at the local hardware store whenever possible, even though it's more expensive than Home Depot, because I want to keep the store going - it is occasionally very valuable to me to actually find an employee who has a vague clue what he or she is talking about. So I pay full price for stuff knowing that I could get it less elsewhere.

When I bought ED a couple months ago I bought from a local dealer. I picked up my previous BMW from them (dip sales), get my service there and a family friend runs the parts department. Their "policy" is to not discount ED. I offered them $1,000 over Munich wholesale invoice (knowing full well I could get less elsewhere). And after some handwringing on their part, they accepted. (I had made it clear that I wasn't negotiating, and was going to walk at the first sign of nickle and diming.)

Anyhow, the point of your OP was the way you were treated when you returned to get your tire fixed. I think everyone, except one or two irrationalists, agreed that your treatment was less than stellar (and I think you were way overcharged for a tire). Despite some initial missteps by a Flow shill or two, the company eventually came online to acknowledge mishandling. The motivation was obviously damage control, which is fine, though a bit belated since the thread was over 700 by that time. Given your broomstick comment, it seems unlikely that you would ever get any sort of apology, but I'm pretty sure you weren't expecting one.

However, I am reasonably sure that you got the attention of the folks at Flow, and they will do everything possible to not do that again.
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  #1024  
Old 07-04-2008, 06:32 AM
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johnc_22 johnc_22 is offline
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I just don't understand getting bent out of shape over a dealer's pricing. If you don't like it, walk. BMW's, whether rightly or wrongly, are perceived as being upscale vehicles, and in some communities the dealers who sell them KNOW that the local clientele is willing and able to pay close to if not MSRP for the vehicles. As always it's a matter of supply and demand. As far as discounting ED orders, sure, given that these are not out of a dealer's allocation they can be sold for little over the Euro delivery invoice, but the dealer has no obligation to make that deal to you. If, as a dealer, I'm faced with selling a car at MSRP off of my lot at a huge profit vs doing a bunch of paperwork to make $1000, less the cost of my time to deal with all of the ED paperwork, how would I prefer my SAs spend their time? If you want an excellent deal on an ED car look no further than some of the Bimmerfest sponsors.
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  #1025  
Old 07-04-2008, 06:52 AM
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I didn't read all of the above, but some at the begining and some at the end. I live in NC and read some comments on Flow years ago. It basically said "Stay away." Regardless of the guy's failed negotiations on the purchase, the gestapo-like treatment after the fact was incredibly unprofessional. I'm sure there are some good stories out there but I've heard a few horror stories and I'm just glad I don't have to take a chance dealing with them.
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