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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1151  
Old 07-19-2008, 06:43 PM
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jwac jwac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfstout View Post
Dude, turn the freaks into BMW NA. Write a ton of letters to BMW in Germany. Also, go back for service and bring a lawyer, then tell them you are NOT leaving and they have no legal right to kick you out. If they do kick you out, sue them. I hope they go out of business. They sound evil. Good luck.
LOL way to actually read the thread man! Maybe you should try it before posting, you'll learn a few things.

And as Moderato said, a dealership absolutely has the right to kick you out. You can't sue them for doing so - it's their private property.
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  #1152  
Old 07-19-2008, 08:28 PM
erdoran erdoran is offline
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mfstout, out of curiousity rather than anything else--I've seen signs in restaurants along the lines of "this establishment may refuse service to anyone for any reason"--as a small business owner my former partner "fired" some customers because they were very difficult to deal with and slow pays. Does a business honestly NOT have the right to refuse service if they choose, other than the obvious no-no's of race, religion, etc?
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  #1153  
Old 07-19-2008, 08:43 PM
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Jalli Jalli is offline
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Originally Posted by Moderato View Post
You're not a lawyer.
He is too a lawyer! He got his degree from a box of Captain Crunch...
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  #1154  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erdoran View Post
mfstout, out of curiousity rather than anything else--I've seen signs in restaurants along the lines of "this establishment may refuse service to anyone for any reason"--as a small business owner my former partner "fired" some customers because they were very difficult to deal with and slow pays. Does a business honestly NOT have the right to refuse service if they choose, other than the obvious no-no's of race, religion, etc?
No, they do not NOT have the right They have the right. A private service company doesn't have to do business with anyone they don't want to but for the obvious reasons like race, etc. If they deem a customer to be obnoxious, rude and difficult to deal with, they can refuse service. They don't have to prove it. 1st Amendment speech is protected, of course, but one person's definition of free speech is another person's definition of obnoxious and rude, and barring obvious discrimination, guess who wins in that battle?
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  #1155  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:05 PM
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You know, the sad thing about all of this is that he referenced the FIRST amendment... Just proves to you that America is going all to hell..
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  #1156  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:15 PM
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1Dreamer 1Dreamer is offline
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Originally Posted by Jalli View Post
You know, the sad thing about all of this is that he referenced the FIRST amendment... Just proves to you that America is going all to hell..
Now is that any way for a guy at Cornell U. to think? You're supposed to represent the hope of America in the coming generation.

We're doomed.

Kidding ya.
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  #1157  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:35 PM
Digitally Digitally is offline
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Originally Posted by 1Dreamer View Post
1st Amendment speech is protected, of course, but one person's definition of free speech is another person's definition of obnoxious and rude, and barring obvious discrimination, guess who wins in that battle?
1st amendment doesn't apply. Constitution only provides protection from the govt, not private parties (dealership, internet forum).

on another note, I can't believe this thread is still going with over 1k posts..
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  #1158  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:49 PM
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jzcrna jzcrna is offline
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Originally Posted by coontie View Post
So, I take my car to Flow BMW (the one that's on Peters Creek Pkwy, in Winston-Salem) to have my tire looked at. Sitting in the lounge, reading my book. A pleasant looking fellow comes out.

- Hi, I'm the general manager, please come with me.

I'm a little apprehensive but follow anyway. Racking my brain, trying to figure out what I did wrong. I don't have a chip in my car or anything, everything is stock... Walk into his office. Dimly lit, there's another dour-looking dude sitting in the corner. He's not smiling, kind of gives me a menacing stare.

- Have a seat.

Ookay then. I sit down.

- Is your alias c-o-o-n-t-i-e on bimmerfest?

I go, "HUH?"

- ARE YOU COONTIE?

I stammer, "Uh.. no." (OK, I wasn't gonna crack on the first question! Once the cattleprods were to come out, maybe then but surely not immediately. Plus, I think I'd be less flabbergasted if he had said, "We have a new M3 we don't need, it's your to keep.")

- Well, we have a reason to believe you are.

Then, he takes out a manila folder and (looking at it upside-down), it's full of my bimmerfest print-outs, certain passages highlighted. He takes a page out.

- It says here you once referred to buying a car at our dealership as "like being sodomized with a broomstick."

I squirm a little and go, "So, you have your own little Gestapo research unit, is that it?"

The sullen-looking dude in the corner (at this point they got the whole good cop/bad cop production thing going on here) says, "We don't like it when people maliciously slander our dealership."

I kinda stammer.. "Well, it wasn't slander, really, I just told people the truth. I didn't like being treated like an idiot by your saleswoman, it just wasn't a pleasant experience. Especially that when I offered $1k over ED invoice to your sales lady over there, she laughed in my face and said she's worked for 15 years and never did ED and no way would I get a 3yr lease for less than $700/month. I then went to Ricki in NY @ DiFeo and leased my car in 10 mins! For the price I wanted! AND! She didn't laugh in my face! So, how about that?!"

The good cop says, "So, you like Dunkin Donuts?"

I go, "what?!"

He says (taking another post from the folder) - right here, you said, "There's a Dunkin Donuts across the street, you can wait there during service."

I'm like, "Ok. SO?" (trying to see if these two really, REALLY hate Dunkin Donuts for some reason. They didn't look like it though.)

(cue in the bad cop)

- Well, when you go buy a donut that costs $3.50, do you offer them three dollars?!

I go, "A car is not a donut, first of all. Second of all, if you're so concerned about good image, why not just offer people fair prices, instead of putting on a whole dog & pony show?"

He says, "Because buying a car is like buying a horse. People have been doing it for centuries. It's called, 'NEGOTIATION.'"

I'm like, "Well, why would you waste my time in the name of this 'negotiation' instead of just selling it for a fair price and be done with it?"

Anyway, this "Waiting for Godot"-like back & forth theater continues for a little bit. Then the bad cop says, "OK, if you hate us so much, you can't come here any longer" or some such thing. I took my book and left, basically.
___

Thinking about it for a bit, I'm sure they were gunning for me for a while. I'm stunned that a dealership would have this Stasi-like group of people, trying to flush out whoever's posting bad reviews about them.

What do you guys think? Incredible, eh?

[Note from Moderator: The owner of the dealership, Mr. Don Flow, first replies to the OP in post #835.]
Are you Kaiser Suse'???
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  #1159  
Old 07-19-2008, 09:50 PM
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jagu jagu is offline
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1st amendment is not even an issue here, there is no state action. Looks like mfstout skipped his con. law classes.
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  #1160  
Old 07-19-2008, 10:08 PM
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1Dreamer 1Dreamer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitally View Post
1st amendment doesn't apply. Constitution only provides protection from the govt, not private parties (dealership, internet forum).
Generally, yes, but it's not quite as simple as ALL private speech being protected. As Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, "the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting FIRE in a theater and causing panic."

Last edited by 1Dreamer; 07-19-2008 at 10:14 PM.
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  #1161  
Old 07-19-2008, 11:57 PM
Mitch3672 Mitch3672 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Dreamer View Post
Generally, yes, but it's not quite as simple as ALL private speech being protected. As Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote, "the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting FIRE in a theater and causing panic."
Wow just read the post. The donut comparison was really valid. What boneheads. What a great thread!
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  #1162  
Old 07-20-2008, 01:22 PM
Derektm19 Derektm19 is offline
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if i were you. i would make a few phone calls to BMW of north america and ask for a regional manager or something and file a complaint for rude behavior. that should set them straight
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  #1163  
Old 07-24-2008, 02:39 PM
firestormer firestormer is offline
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Thanks for the entertainment !

Well . . . . . . . . . .

after spending many snatched hours reading this thread i feel i must say that i have learned a lot about dealer tactics ! I had never heard of ED ! Do you think i will qualify for ED ?
the general UK punter takes whatever deal is offered, they do not haggle, so whatever state the market is in they always think they're getting a good deal !

Mr Flow if you're still here . . . . . good damage limitation !

Everyone else . . . . . . . . . . BMS's ROCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Later !
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  #1164  
Old 07-24-2008, 03:13 PM
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PhilipWOT PhilipWOT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Flow View Post
Since these comments are being made about the company that I own I thought it appropriate that I respond directly. First, let me say that I do not discount or dismiss the comments made by the customer. However, the two members of our organization who interacted with him have a long and proven track record of treating customers truthfully and with respect. Our organization has a deep commitment to treating customers like guests in our home. We have won BMW's Center for Excellence award 8 times. Only two other dealerships in the United States have won this award more than us.
We do not see our business as a confrontational business or one that is based on "doing something to a customer." We believe that it is our responsibility to create value for our customers and that is measured by a fair price and providing extraordinary personal service. If we fail to do that, we do not deserve the customer's business.

We are human, and therefore, we make mistakes. If we had to do it over again, would we have done things differently? Of course we would have because the outcome did not leave us with a customer who trusts us or believes in us.
In the initial interaction on the phone with the salesperson (the woman referred to in a direspectful manner), if the customer is correctly recalling the conversation, we should have clearly stated our pricing policy on that vehicle. This particular salesperson has won every award that BMW offers for customer satisfaction. In fact, one year she led the country. She loves what she does and her customers love her. Obviously, in this situation, she did not communicate in a manner that reflects the fact that she does not just "talk the talk."

When our General Sales Manager approached the customer in the showroom, he was trying to understand what we had done that would have evoked such a strong negative response from the customer. They went to his office, which by the way, is not dark and dingy. They genuinely wanted feedback. With a CSI rating in sales of 99% and service of 95%, they take it to heart when a customer is not pleased with their performance.

Global Imports pwn3zz you.

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  #1165  
Old 09-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Motorworf Motorworf is offline
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I just joined and came across this thread. It really struck me...

A very similiar thing happened to me in 2003 shortly after we'd purchased a MINI from a local dealer. The salesperson approached me and asked if I was so-and-so on the internet. I said yes and the person proceeded to query (in a nice manner) why I was unhappy with their dealership. I told the person and we moved on. No big deal, but I've always wondered how they even suspected it was me.

And, now, this! It makes me wonder if someone is spending too much time reading these type forums for BMW OR is someone running a search engine for key inputs (e.g. dealer name, city, etc) which is why I've left the name of the dealer and city/state out of this post.


Hmmmm, it's now really giving me a feeling of paranoia.

EDIT:
I got to thinking and having the dealer view my information online is not the issue. I posted it on a public forum and I would expect the turnaround that comes from it. What irks me is the person in the dealership tracing me down and then confronting me at a visit to the dealership. If they want to use what I post as helpful for their customer service, good. But, to track down the particular customer is not acceptable practice. Had they used the internet to contact me offline and set up a meeting, I would have understood. But, like our original poster, I took it as a direct afront.

Thanks and I hope the dealer, who I understand is now a sponsor here, will use this forum to contact customers who post and not wait for them to show up at the dealership.

Last edited by Motorworf; 09-29-2008 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Rethink
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  #1166  
Old 09-28-2008, 10:28 PM
Angelgrl Angelgrl is offline
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OMG! that was too funny! sad but funny....the dealership must have a lot of time on their hands...I know times are tough but....
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  #1167  
Old 09-29-2008, 01:28 AM
kevinbahnz kevinbahnz is offline
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I'll be moving back to NC at the end of the year and I'll be sure not to go to their dealership for anything. i might go in and browse and ask if they were the dealership that ambushed their customers and just walk out.
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  #1168  
Old 09-29-2008, 05:31 AM
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Mk23 Mk23 is offline
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Originally Posted by kevinbahnz View Post
I'll be moving back to NC at the end of the year and I'll be sure not to go to their dealership for anything. i might go in and browse and ask if they were the dealership that ambushed their customers and just walk out.
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  #1169  
Old 09-29-2008, 07:38 AM
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jwac jwac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinbahnz View Post
I'll be moving back to NC at the end of the year and I'll be sure not to go to their dealership for anything. i might go in and browse and ask if they were the dealership that ambushed their customers and just walk out.
You might want to read the whole thread... the dealership is now a Bimmerfest sponsor.
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  #1170  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:10 AM
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Yes yes, but it was still funny.
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  #1171  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:38 AM
erdoran erdoran is offline
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kevin, read the whole thread. The owner got wind of this, got online to address the situation and also took measures within his dealership. From my reading of the thread, it appeared to have been a situation of an over-zealous employee, rather than a dealership policy. They also have someone posting in the group buys section who seems great--if you have questions about the incident, I suggest you PM hiim and ask, I think he uses flowbmw as his username. On a personal level, I was very impressed with Don Flow taking the time to post in this thread and address the situation, in sharp contrast to Husker BMW hiding behind its lawyers when they got hit in a viral thread.
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  #1172  
Old 09-29-2008, 03:44 PM
kevinbahnz kevinbahnz is offline
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47 pages. I guess i did ahead of myself. I didnt feel like reading the whole thing. anyways, I bought my first bimmer from crown bmw in greensboro 9 years ago, and they have pretty good service. I don't know about now though.
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  #1173  
Old 12-21-2008, 07:01 PM
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Same exact thing happen to me with the purchase of my Nissan 350z Track model. The big wigs were monitoring the largest Z site (my350z.com) and didn't like what I was posting regarding poor customer service.

So much so, I wasn't pulled into a back room, I was called on my cell phone well after business hours; where a service manager called and advised me ( he wasn't being rude, he was acting as if he was doing me a favor, giving me a heads up) to stop posting about that particular dealership....

Either way. If you have a bad experience with any company. If you're going to post up about it, better make sure it's 100% accurate account and not some slanderish BS...they are watching and they like to use the term "legal action"...

Glad to see this thread make full circle and Mr. Flow signing up himself to address the facts.
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  #1174  
Old 12-21-2008, 08:39 PM
jdoss44 jdoss44 is offline
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they looked down on me bc im 21...so i went to crown and bought my 328i the next day
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  #1175  
Old 12-21-2008, 08:42 PM
jdoss44 jdoss44 is offline
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Originally Posted by kevinbahnz View Post
47 pages. I guess i did ahead of myself. I didnt feel like reading the whole thing. anyways, I bought my first bimmer from crown bmw in greensboro 9 years ago, and they have pretty good service. I don't know about now though.

They still have great customer service. i highly recommend them to anybody looking into buying a BMW.
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