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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #201  
Old 06-28-2008, 07:34 AM
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I am not going to mention any specifics, for obvious reasons. But this does not pertain to any dealership; rather a "shop" if you will.

In the past, I have had service regarding my vehicle that was perhaps worthy of a 7 on a scale 1-10. After mentioning that I expected better from them, as I saw such positive praise of their outfit on "the internet forums like Bimmerfest," that 7 turned into a 10 faster than you can say "reputation is everything."
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  #202  
Old 06-28-2008, 07:36 AM
Zheeeem Zheeeem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4BMWFamily View Post
Well, there's always two sides to a story, huh? Actually three if you believe the old adage of their's his side, our side, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Here's Flow's side:

Its routine for companies to monitor internet message boards for content about themselves, In today's world, its a good business practice.

The funny thing about "Coontie's" post was that he has never been here and actually worked with a salesman or sales manager with regards to his car purchase, yet he can use broad brush generalizations about Flow's sales process being equal to something with a broomstick. (shrug)

"Coontie" has admitted to taking advantage of the Saturday free car wash, which is reserved for sales customers. He also likes the free coffee, it is pretty good. These items also cost money, which comes from the sales, service, and parts departments.

Today, he asks us to post date the RO on his tire so he can buy tire insurance (elsewhere) to cover a nail in his tire, so he can get it replaced for free. Huh?

Lets be serious here folks. We're very concerned about our reputation and we're going to look into these kinds of posts seriously. We're 7 time Center of Excellence award winners and we have a lot of happy customers and his statements about our sales process are not deserved.

A wise man once said to make your words soft and sweet in case one day you should have to eat them.
With all due respect, you have not actually responded to any of Zach's allegations. All you have done is attacked him based on your perceptions of his behaviour. I would have thought you'd try to smooth this over by trying to explain your actions and portray a more positive image of your company.

As to Zach's drinking your coffee and getting free car washes, it seems that these are things you have some control over, and have been allowing for some time. It does not appear that you've ever confronted him on this in the past, and it seems exceedingly unusual to defend your actions by saying, essentially, that it's because he's getting free stuff but didn't actually buy his car from you. Sorry, but this also seems incredibly petty on your part.

It's your choice when to date the invoice. If Zach were to pick his car up the following day, it is not entirely clear why that would be forward dating, since it seems reasonable to date the invoice on the day the car is being picked up. I don't think it is reasonable for you to be expected to do anything deceptive or illegal, and a simple "no, we can't do that, sorry" should suffice if what Zach is requesting goes beyond the pale. But again, that's not what the original post is all about. This is just your post hoc rationalization that your behaviour was just fine because Zach is a "bad man".

(It is not at all clear that Zach's ploy would be successful, since insurance companies, in my experience, tend to work on the basis of date of loss, rather than date of invoice.)

It does appear that Zach made an effort to purchase a vehicle from Flow.

I dunno. The really creepy thing about all of this is that you guys seem to be obsessed with monitoring what people say about you on the web, tracking down who these people are, then confronting them aggressively if they ever happen to do business with you. That's the image portrayed in the OP, and your reply does absolutely nothing to counteract it. If it's true, you might want to rethink whether that is really a winning business strategy.
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  #203  
Old 06-28-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLT View Post
You are not thinking this through, a customer posts negative things about your business in an Internet forum. You have two choices... Win his respect and business or piss him off just to make sure that he will post more negative things about your dealership (Flow BMW in NC).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister Stairs View Post
No, it would have been smarter for them to service his car & do excellent work and treat Coontie with respect. Then Coontie would have a different, positive opinion of the dealership. With any luck, his next post would have been, "Although their sales was like being sodomized with a broomstick, their service was like having my balls licked and being deep throated."
That Coontie is a rather graphic fellow isn't he. You and Goodkarma have the right attitude, if my suggestion of declining to work on the car, that option is only if Flow BMW of NC was unwilling to accept Coontie as a customer.
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  #204  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLT View Post
It was very stupid of Flow BMW to "invite" Coontie into a closed office and produce a folder of his Bimmerfest post. It would have been much smarter to decline working on his car without comment. That is how a professional would have handled it.
Not sure on that one. *** ** **** ****.

Last edited by Emission; 06-28-2008 at 05:43 PM. Reason: Personal attack...
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  #205  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:18 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coontie View Post
Heh. Now I know what spies have going through their heads when their covers are blown.

I swear, it was BEYOND surreal. I felt like any minute they were going to put a hood over my head & haul me off to some sub-basement BMW dungeon, where leather-clad S&M dudes would go medieval on my ass, Pulp Fiction style.

Whatever. I don't really wanna say any more bad stuff about them because they know where I live now.
Move along. Nothing to see here.

Last edited by pony_trekker; 06-28-2008 at 08:30 AM. Reason: MIsread original post.
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  #206  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:19 AM
adc adc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
You gotta learn the word 'courtesy', because this sentence could have been exactly from a 16yr noob
A sign of maturity for a business that wants repeat buyers is to treat even 16yo noobs with the same courtesy as they would any other customer. Doesn't cost anything...

You can tell by the amount of excitation this has caused how much they have advanced their cause already. Keep it up guys...
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  #207  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:20 AM
adc adc is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
This is still a fraud.
Not if the insurance company told him to enter the claim the following day.
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  #208  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:21 AM
zoltrix zoltrix is offline
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Originally Posted by Zheeeem View Post
I dunno. The really creepy thing about all of this is that you guys seem to be obsessed with monitoring what people say about you on the web, tracking down who these people are, then confronting them aggressively if they ever happen to do business with you. That's the image portrayed in the OP, and your reply does absolutely nothing to counteract it. If it's true, you might want to rethink whether that is really a winning business strategy.
That's the sickest part about this whole episode. They monitored ALL my posts, for 6 months straight, waiting until something were to come along that would tell them who I really was.

I mean.. WHO DOES that?! What kind of a business would be so obsessed about something somebody said, in a 2-post, long dead thread from 6 months ago?

Creepy. Plain creepy.

Funny thing -- when I called BMWNA to tell them about this, after I told the girl on the phone my story, there was this looong silence. I'm like.. "Are you still there?" She goes, "uh. Yeah. I've just never heard of anything like this!" I go.. "Yep. Me neither!"
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  #209  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SprechenSieBMW? View Post
Pics or ban.

Ducati + Chick + Chick (is not a passenger, but the one piloting the Ducati) + Atlantan = SprechenSieBMW? likey very much.

Is there a smileyface that is popping a woody? Can someone please design one, for suitable occasions such as this?

+100

Drop by Global on the Ducati.
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  #210  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinister Stairs View Post
No, it would have been smarter for them to service his car & do excellent work and treat Coontie with respect. Then Coontie would have a different, positive opinion of the dealership. With any luck, his next post would have been, "Although their sales was like being sodomized with a broomstick, their service was like having my balls licked and being deep throated."
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
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  #211  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:27 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coontie View Post
The good cop says, "So, you like Dunkin Donuts?"

I go, "what?!"

***

- Well, when you go buy a donut that costs $3.50, do you offer them three dollars?!
No, I walk down to the DD that sells donuts for $.85.

I would have taken a dump in their toilet and not flushed.
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  #212  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:28 AM
zoltrix zoltrix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Not if the insurance company told him to enter the claim the following day.
Yes.

What I REALLY wanted to do is to get it fixed that day but either a) have the insurance company waive the extra day (refused) OR fix it today but pick up the document tomorrow (ins company said no also, day of fix = day of document.) So, I was kinda pissed because I didn't want to come back again AND dealership had no slots open for Saturday.

The sad story here is that when I got home to read the policy, it doesn't even matter when you FIX it, it only matters when it breaks. So, I'm screwed anyway.
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  #213  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:32 AM
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JSpira JSpira is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKL View Post
Are you referring to Adrian's delivery. I saw that. I missed the Committees's punishment after Adrian violated the 12 hour rule. Rumor on the street is he had to hand the car over to the dealer upon redelivery. But I'm sure that's just an urban legand. The Committee could not be that creul -- could they?
Ja, that's it and who knows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BKL View Post
8 months? Aren't you overdue for a new car? It seems like you change cars like I change socks!
one never knows
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  #214  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coontie View Post
Yes!

Here's the quote in question:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...61&postcount=2

That was in Feb 07!! So, these guys were trying to suss me out for 6 months now!
Are you kidding?! That post was what got you thrown into der kerker? You mostly said positive things, and it's not like you broadcast it to the whole community on AM radio or something.

Sheesh, those guys are f**king morons. Sodomizing, broomstick-wielding morons. They deserve whatever they .... hold on, someone's knocking at my door, BRB

[indistinguishable voices]
"Yes, I'm BickUW89 on Bimmerfest."
[more indistinguishable voices]
"No, I don't know Coontie personally, I mean... oomph!"


ATTENTION!
THIS IS THE FLOW BMW GESTAPO. WE HAVE BICKUW89. HE HAS CONSPIRED WITH COONTIE BY READING HIS POSTINGS. LOG OFF BIMMERFEST IMMEDIATELY. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
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  #215  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:44 AM
adc adc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
And you forget the best part; after hammering on them, he wants free service now!
Free service??? You have some serious misconceptions about how this works...

The dealer gets PAID by BMW to do warranty work, and gets PAID by the CUSTOMER or some 3rd party to do non-warranty work. In this case, they would get PAID by the tire insurance company!
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  #216  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:48 AM
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jbeene jbeene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Wow boy. You missed the MAIN point. When I referred to slandering, I was not referring to any legal action. One definition is simply "A false and malicious statement or report about someone." So I don't care about your little technical differentiation.

To be considered seriously by a Court, it would have to be determined that it was malicious and mostly repetitive in an harassment manner. We are not there.

But *the OP* (the real abuser, NOT the dealer) chose to make a private thing a public one. I don't have sympathy for his attitude, behavior and actions.

Most supportive posters just see the "big & bad dealer" and don't care about integrity and fairness. They need to grow up as well.
We have posters (in this evolution of a thread from complaint to debate) that work for dealers and they think what Flow did was bad.

I don't know how you can say that the dealer wasn't abusive in this case? Sure the op may have used some colorful language in a post while expressing an opinion but come on, hauling him in to the office and dressing him down, then calling hiomout in a public forum to further push the issue.

I have had many customers I don't like and who act like a$$es. Its part of being in business.

Part of the reason I think my dealership tried to improve their relationship with me is because they appreciate the good and bad word of mouht can do to their business.

But if they'd have tried what Flow did, flame session would have ensued for sure.+
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  #217  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:51 AM
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Mech_Man Mech_Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLT View Post
That Coontie is a rather graphic fellow isn't he. You and Goodkarma have the right attitude, if my suggestion of declining to work on the car, that option is only if Flow BMW of NC was unwilling to accept Coontie as a customer.
I agree.
If you go back to the original post, Coontie is quite complimentary of the dealership, except he used a pretty graphic response to the dealership's high pricing (in his opinion).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...61#post2991661

(I'm repeating it here, as posters before seem to have read more into it that there was, IMO)
Quote:
Flow is not bad, that's where I go to get my car washed

Their prices are outrageous. Buying a car from Flow on Peters Creek is like getting sodomized. Repeatedly. With a broomstick.

BUT. They are very friendly, always treat you nice, good customer service, good Starbucks coffee (Dunkin Donuts on the other side of the ditch doesn't hurt ) but it seems like their prices are set in stone and it's a very polite "take it or leave it" attitude. They seem to get lots of business from the local shmoes here who don't know any better. Their top saleswoman told me that in 14 years of selling BMWs, she's never done an ED sale OR a PC Delivery. Tells ya smth, don't it?
Other than the last part of his middle statement, he isn't harsh at all. And his wording, while colorful, is far from the worst seen on forums.

My own experience: I just purchased a new car, and Flow was one of the dealers I contacted. The salesman politely rejected my Cost Over Invoice offer (of what I thought was the market conditions called for), and he countered with $800 under MSRP. I made an offer, they declined to accept doing business under these terms, and we both went our separate ways. No demands, no harassment, etc. from either side. I wouldn't hesitate to contact them again, but I also would be greatly surprised if we ended up doing business when I decide to get my next BMW. (My final deal at a different dealer for Invoice+ terms ended up being $9,900 under MSRP, every penny accounted-for).


Also, and not to divert the thread, I'm a little surprised at how few discussions there are on how separated the Sales and the Service departments are within dealerships. I've had the repeated impression that from the car owner's perspective (sales brochures not withstanding), they really could be two different companies. Or to make it clearer, When you buy a car, you get it from the best sales department. When you get it serviced, you go to the best service organization. The owner makes two different decisions on where to go. I'm mot sure why the dealerships try to link those two departments in the owners' minds, except to hope that your good sales experience will motivate you to give their service department a try. Sales loyalty and service loyalty really are not linked any more than that. (Unless you find a CA who is also your SA).

Flow not only alienated Coontie due to his experience with their sales staff, but they have rejected his service business too.

The real surprise is how Flow not only alienated one person, but it was someone they KNEW was active on these forums. Did they expect him to be cowed into silence?? (How many times does THAT happen on the Internet -grin).

Bottom line? Flow really overreacted to a simple (but sit-straight in your chair) graphic and humorous expression posted on the Internet. If they were so sensitive that they felt it necessary to take actual action, they should have politely asked him why he'd written his statement, and then tried to make his experiences from them on good enough that he would post more good things about their dealership.
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  #218  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:52 AM
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Saintor Saintor is offline
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Quote:
We have posters (in this evolution of a thread from complaint to debate) that work for dealers and they think what Flow did was bad.
Which means absolutely NOTHING.

Quote:
The dealer gets PAID by BMW to do warranty work, and gets PAID by the CUSTOMER or some 3rd party to do non-warranty work. In this case, they would get PAID by the tire insurance company!
You forgot the donuts, the coffee and more seriously, the loaners. There is no money to be made by works on warranty. You can talk to my dealer who kept my cars for 2 weeks, has spent tens of hours. It was finally a 125$ part... do you think that BMW reimbursed them all those hours. Of course, not.
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  #219  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:56 AM
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BickUW89 BickUW89 is offline
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Originally Posted by mattspalace View Post


This is about to get good.
LMAO! Indeed.


This is THE BEST thread I have EVER read on Bimmerfest. I am totally subscribed.
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  #220  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:58 AM
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mwagner1 mwagner1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jansta View Post
We went back to the same dealership several times. Our sales person was the one who sold my boyfriend his Z4 years ago and every time we stopped to chat with him, he was as courteous as could be even though he knew we weren't ready to buy. . . basically wasting his time, but when I was ready, it paid off. Negotiation was fantastic. I'm extremely happy with the service I was provided with.
This is exactly what I used to experience here at the local dealer...the guy who would have been my sales guy (he sold my mom two X5's) was someone who was always pleasant to just yack with...he knew that I was not ready to buy he also knew that one day I WOULD...however, he left the dealership to go back into the oil business (now likely making substantially more $$$$$ than he ever did selling cars)..

I met his "replacement" and I felt like I was talking to a cold fish/robot....when he realized it would be some time before I bought car, he ahhhh, ummmmm, cough cough stopped making eye contact as well as basically shrugged me off...and at that point the temperature in the cubicle dropped about 20 degrees... I knew in about 10 seconds that this cold fish would NOT sell me car....NEVER!!!

I am now convinced beyond a doubt that any person who is considering buying/leasing a BMW should consider using one of the many sponsors here on the 'fest (Irv, Adrian etc)..pity the poor foolish dealerships who fail to realize/learn that the 'net is indeed a powerful (and potentially lethal) tool.

Cheers,
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  #221  
Old 06-28-2008, 08:58 AM
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BLT BLT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Which means absolutely NOTHING.

You forgot the donuts, the coffee and more seriously, the loaners. .
In the past have you had some sort of Internet pissing contest with Coontie? You seem more interesting in putting him down in this thread than anything else.
P.S.
I just want to make sure that everyone knows that we are talking about Flow BMW of Winston-Salem NC.
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Last edited by BLT; 06-28-2008 at 09:02 AM.
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  #222  
Old 06-28-2008, 09:01 AM
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Unagi1 Unagi1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maande10 View Post
This thread comes up at the top of page 9 on a Google search for "flow BMW." Not bad at all for a thread that has been in existence for less than 24 hours. Watch it move up to page 8... page 7...

Don, do you see where this is going?
No need to look further than page 1 to see a pattern here...

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...Off0336411.htm
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  #223  
Old 06-28-2008, 09:04 AM
Sinister Stairs Sinister Stairs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLT View Post
In the past have you had some sort of Internet pissing contest with Coontie? You seem more interesting in putting him down in this thread than anything else.
Coontie now gets his free carwashes from Saintor's garden hose - that's what his beef is about.
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  #224  
Old 06-28-2008, 09:07 AM
adc adc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
You forgot the donuts, the coffee and more seriously, the loaners. There is no money to be made by works on warranty. You can talk to my dealer who kept my cars for 2 weeks, has spent tens of hours. It was finally a 125$ part... do you think that BMW reimbursed them all those hours. Of course, not.
You weren't paying attention:
- The donuts are not free, there's a donut shop across the street
- There was no loaner - the OP was going to wait for the repair
- The coffee was bad
- In this particular case, it was going to be paid by a 3rd party tire insurance...


As for the situation with your dealer, I'd say that is a very good incentive for them to better their diagnosis skills - don't you think? Don't worry, for 95% of the repairs they finish in much less time than the one alloted by BMW service manuals and specs.

Or did you think they stay in business with a $2k profit on a new car sale?
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Last edited by adc; 06-28-2008 at 09:09 AM.
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  #225  
Old 06-28-2008, 09:08 AM
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thekurgan thekurgan is offline
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Wow, man, you know, if they would have closed the door, you could have charged them with false imprisonment or a low level assault. Pretty arrogant of them, and you made the right choice to just walk away.
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