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  #1  
Old 05-19-2003, 12:17 PM
cokray cokray is offline
never gets out of third
Location: San Francisco
 
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Proper 1-2 shifting technique?

Hi All,

So I've had my 325i with a manual transmission for a couple of months now. Having never driven a manual before I have taught myself with this car. I'm getting much better at it; I can now launch and shift smoothly 85% of the time.

However, I have a question concerning proper shifting from 1st to 2nd. I've noticed that the revs fall off slowly when depressing the clutch to shift and because of this I have to wait for a few beats so the revs get down where they need to be for second -- if I don't wait long enough the car jerks as the engine speed is forcibly dropped by the wheels. Now, when cruising around and shifting at 3K or so this isn't a big deal, however, when I try to push the car a bit more and, say, shift out of first at 4 or 5K the wait seems interminably long and the car loses a significant amount of speed before I can smoothly engage second.

My question is this: is there a driving technique to use to shorten the wait and still engage second smoothly? Should I be feathering the gas before clutching in first? Should I be slower releasing the clutch for second?

This delay is especially annoying when driving up a hill as the car sheds speed faster than it sheds revs causing a big slowdown when shifting.

I've driving three different m/t equipped cars now and my BMW is the only one that gives me this trouble, I'm guessing this is because the revs drop faster on the other cars I've driven (lighter flywheels or whatever).

Any advice is much appreciated…

Last edited by cokray; 05-19-2003 at 03:07 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2003, 12:29 PM
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Nick325xiT 5spd Nick325xiT 5spd is offline
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You can feather the clutch to make the revs drop faster....
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  #3  
Old 05-19-2003, 12:35 PM
cokray cokray is offline
never gets out of third
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
You can feather the clutch to make the revs drop faster....
I kinda figured that's what I was supposed to be doing, I still need more practice feathering my clutch, it seems determined to either fully engage or fully disengage. Sometimes I feel so uncoordinated trying to drive it.
  #4  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:04 PM
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Dr. Phil Dr. Phil is offline
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I asked Clyde about this on Friday, it seems 1 to 2 is a bit rougher in BMWs for some reason

I did do a big SNAFU today, playing around, missed a shift and shot the revs up to 6k I hope it will be ok
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  #5  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:06 PM
GaryB GaryB is offline
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I agree. Accomplishing a consistently smooth 1st-2nd shift is the only problem I have with the transmission in normal driving, presumably because the revs have to fall more for this shift than any other. The slightly shorter 1st gear in the new 6-speed MT doesn't help.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:07 PM
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Dr. Phil... FYI your new flashy sig is over 150k.

--SONET
  #7  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SONET
Dr. Phil... FYI your new flashy sig is over 150k.

--SONET
I was waiting to see how long it woudl take you to comment So was the culprit that made it for me
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  #8  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:10 PM
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Phil, bi-xenons don't flash that way.
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  #9  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Phil
I was waiting to see how long it woudl take you to comment So was the culprit that made it for me

That's pretty funny, I didn't think anyone even paid attention to my posts where I b*tch about sig pics.

So... how long did it take me to notice, and more importantly, who was the culprit?

--SONET
  #10  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:20 PM
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mwette mwette is offline
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Hmm. Feathering the clutch doen't sound good to me. My advice is to learn the timing of the car. I am still learning, but I find that if I let off the gas all the way and give it a little more time, if needed. That and maybe wait for the EDU "fixers".
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:25 PM
cokray cokray is offline
never gets out of third
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Quote:
Originally posted by mwette
Hmm. Feathering the clutch doen't sound good to me. My advice is to learn the timing of the car. I am still learning, but I find that if I let off the gas all the way and give it a little more time, if needed. That and maybe wait for the EDU "fixers".
Unfortunately, the timing of the car seems to call for 2 or more second pauses between 1st and 2nd, which is a really long time to be off the gas if you're trying to speed up quickly.

Perhaps I'm just picking bad points to shift at, like I said if I shift at 3K I have no real issues, but when I try to wind the engine up to 4 or 5K the delay seems to be longer, which is unfortunate because that's when I'm usually the most in a hurry.
  #12  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:32 PM
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I would guess that most of the delay is caused by the engine management software for emissions purposes (instead of the flywheel). Hopefully if the Shark Injector ever becomes available it will fix this. In the meantime, it sounds like you just need to learn the timing better. If you think about it every shift then it will come to you pretty quick. Your delay does sound considerably longer than mine though, which is odd.

--SONET
  #13  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:37 PM
skarl skarl is offline
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Don't worry about it. Being european I've driven nothing but MT's all my life, and when I drove off the dealers lot with my 330Ci last friday, I was jumping around all over the place like a newbie...
However, one half hour later I'd learned to find the clutch's sweet spot and now I find it easier than my ol' Miata to shift from 1st to 2nd. I snap it in as fast as I can move the stick.
It's just a matter of getting used to the clutch.

Stefan
  #14  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:43 PM
cokray cokray is offline
never gets out of third
Location: San Francisco
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SONET
I would guess that most of the delay is caused by the engine management software for emissions purposes (instead of the flywheel). Hopefully if the Shark Injector ever becomes available it will fix this. In the meantime, it sounds like you just need to learn the timing better. If you think about it every shift then it will come to you pretty quick. Your delay does sound considerably longer than mine though, which is odd.

--SONET
I'm sure you're right, I do have to get my timing down, as well as improve my clutch-feathering abilities to soften the shock if the revs are not in perfect alignment.

The biggest problem I have is driving up and down steep hills (very common where I live). The poor 2.5L really dies if I hit second too soon going up a hill, it has very little power in second until 3000 RPM or so, so I have to ride out first much longer, hence my complaints.
  #15  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:47 PM
cokray cokray is offline
never gets out of third
Location: San Francisco
 
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Mein Auto: '03 325i
Quote:
Originally posted by skarl
Don't worry about it. Being european I've driven nothing but MT's all my life, and when I drove off the dealers lot with my 330Ci last friday, I was jumping around all over the place like a newbie...
However, one half hour later I'd learned to find the clutch's sweet spot and now I find it easier than my ol' Miata to shift from 1st to 2nd. I snap it in as fast as I can move the stick.
It's just a matter of getting used to the clutch.

Stefan
Just out of curiousity, at about what RPM do you usually shift out of first when driving?

Also -- Go Blue! (assuming you're a student -- I graduated there in '97)
  #16  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:48 PM
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LilEccentricJ LilEccentricJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SONET

That's pretty funny, I didn't think anyone even paid attention to my posts where I b*tch about sig pics.

So... how long did it take me to notice, and more importantly, who was the culprit?

--SONET
I H8 fatware sigs!
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New Sig SOON!!! Just need to find time to make an 11 MB flashing sig file for my new truck
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by skarl
I snap it in as fast as I can move the stick.
Isn't that pretty hard on the syncros?

There is a point as the revs drop where it takes less effort to put it into gear, which is what I wait for, then let off the clutch *right* after putting it into gear so the tranny/motor are turning at the same speed for a smoother feeling shift.

I just realized how difficult it is to explain stuff like this in writing.

--SONET
  #18  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:49 PM
ride365 ride365 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cokray
Unfortunately, the timing of the car seems to call for 2 or more second pauses between 1st and 2nd, which is a really long time to be off the gas if you're trying to speed up quickly.
as bad as the throttle map is, that does sound excessively long. try getting off the throttle sooner and sooner relative to clutch engagement, but not so much that the car jerks because you're still in gear.

when you shift, do the revs rise at all between gears?
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by LilEccentricJ
I H8 fatware sigs!
I had a feeling it was you!

--SONET
  #20  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:56 PM
cokray cokray is offline
never gets out of third
Location: San Francisco
 
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Mein Auto: '03 325i
Quote:
Originally posted by ride365
as bad as the throttle map is, that does sound excessively long. try getting off the throttle sooner and sooner relative to clutch engagement, but not so much that the car jerks because you're still in gear.

when you shift, do the revs rise at all between gears?

No, they don't rise. I am pretty good about getting my foot off the gas when I'm supposed to. It is possible I'm exaggerating the 2 seconds, but it sure seems that long.

However, another theory I have is that I am (unintentionally) getting back on the gas too soon (probably right when I start to release the clutch) causing the revs to slow their decent. This probably happens more on hills because the car is losing speed quickly and my brain is telling my (automatic transmission trained) right foot to make it go faster.
  #21  
Old 05-19-2003, 01:57 PM
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LilEccentricJ LilEccentricJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SONET
I had a feeling it was you!

--SONET
hehe

u know we miss ur "pigsig" dont u
that was
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2003, 02:02 PM
skarl skarl is offline
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Nah,
Its' not hard on the syncs, at least not by judging on how easily the 2nd clicks in. Shifts that are hard on the syncros usually require some effort to get in gear.
Right now I shift at 4000, but wait 'til it's broken in...

Nope, I'm not a student, my company sent me over. But I'll second the Go Blue anyway!

Stefan
  #23  
Old 05-19-2003, 02:02 PM
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SONET SONET is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by LilEccentricJ
u know we miss ur "pigsig" dont u
that was
Maybe the time has come to reinstate the pig sig. I think it may be a bit played out though. Not only that but I think it ruffles some feathers here, so I have been holding back.

--SONET
  #24  
Old 05-19-2003, 03:09 PM
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Dr. Phil Dr. Phil is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SONET
I had a feeling it was you!

--SONET
Would you prefer this one



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  #25  
Old 05-19-2003, 03:25 PM
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SONET SONET is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Phil
Would you prefer this one
Umm, no.

Aside form the absurd size, somehow sigs like that remind me of my second cousin. I think he's legally insane. He's in his 30's and is convinced that he has 'hacked' into all the FBI's computers, yet after two years he still can't figure out how to get his dialup connection working. His house and the interior of his truck are full of flashing LEDs. Hundreds of them flashing all out of sync. He says it keeps him calm.

So whenever I see flashing sigs it makes me think the person must be insane like my crazy cousin.

--SONET
 

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