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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #26  
Old 07-21-2008, 10:13 AM
arcticdog arcticdog is offline
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Originally Posted by BMW_tech View Post
On vehicles equipped with BMW Assist, there are additional current fluctuations as high as 500ma that last for approximately 2 minutes. The fluctuations occur every 15 minutes for up to 14 hours after key off. This is considered normal operation of the TCU and should not be considered a fault.
WHY does the TCU do that "normally"?
Is it calling the mothership?
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  #27  
Old 07-21-2008, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticdog View Post
WHY does the TCU do that "normally"?
Is it calling the mothership?
I explain the way it is and I get bad remarks. I know these PROTOCOLS and it's not the dealerships that dictate the course of the repair. As I mentioned, they can keep changing the battery and it will keep dying and then what? Anyways, to those who wish to know.
The TCU wakes up to see wether or not the vehicle needs servicing or perhaps to give away it's position for Stolen Vehicle Recovery feature. If someone happens to be missing, this would be a great thing (E.T. phone home). Without having to turn on the key, the TCU takes it upon itself to check up on the entire vehicle and it's system. As I have said, once battery voltage drops below 10 volts.....this is when things get screwy. Changing the battery won't cure anything unless you find the parasite. It's really simple, disconnect the TCU and RECORD the event to see if the draw persists. If not, then it's the TCU and a PuMA case needs to be created. PuMA may advise repairing the TCU via MoXA. They may ask to try a known good TCU and recheck. Whatever they may require, this isn't going to be easy and simple. We're far away from just replace the battery and call it a day. That's what I've been trying to say before I got flamed. I can't wait to see what he has to say now.
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  #28  
Old 07-21-2008, 01:29 PM
arcticdog arcticdog is offline
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Thanks BMW_TECH for your insight.

Is it necessary for the TCU to wake up so often just to check status of the vehicle? Especially when it is parked? What can change in 15 minutes that BMW needs to know?? I could understand perhaps a daily check-up, but every 15 minutes seems excessive, unless there's something else with the vehicle that BMW is monitoring. AND, why isn't the system smart enough to check the battery voltage first, and know not to commence any more of these power-draining self-checks and data transmissions when voltage is too low, so as to prevent further havoc with the sticky relays and electronics, and ultimately a dead-battery!!??

As for the BMW Assist system automatically giving away the vehicle's location during these TCU wake-ups, whether or not it's under the guise of "Stolen Vehicle Recovery service," I'm going to want to read the fine print about such location information give-up and BMW's privacy policy. I thought that location information is transmitted ONLY when the SOS is invoked, whether voluntarily (by me calling for help) or involuntarily (such as when in an accident).
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  #29  
Old 07-21-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticdog View Post
Thanks BMW_TECH for your insight.

Is it necessary for the TCU to wake up so often just to check status of the vehicle? Especially when it is parked? What can change in 15 minutes that BMW needs to know?? I could understand perhaps a daily check-up, but every 15 minutes seems excessive, unless there's something else with the vehicle that BMW is monitoring. AND, why isn't the system smart enough to check the battery voltage first, and know not to commence any more of these power-draining self-checks and data transmissions when voltage is too low, so as to prevent further havoc with the sticky relays and electronics, and ultimately a dead-battery!!??

As for the BMW Assist system automatically giving away the vehicle's location during these TCU wake-ups, whether or not it's under the guise of "Stolen Vehicle Recovery service," I'm going to want to read the fine print about such location information give-up and BMW's privacy policy. I thought that location information is transmitted ONLY when the SOS is invoked, whether voluntarily (by me calling for help) or involuntarily (such as when in an accident).

At a minimum it needs to power up periodically to check in for a stolen vehicle report. Someone made an engineering decision. If it was my project, I'd want it doing that more than once a day. Some of the operation may simply be a side effect of powering up the TCU for checking in. Who knows. In any case that is simply the way it works. It seems to work fine for most of the X3s out there.





==

Thanks to BMW tech for such a detailed informed post. The rest of us are just guessing.

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 07-21-2008 at 03:14 PM.
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  #30  
Old 07-21-2008, 04:31 PM
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The answer is simple. Do not subscribe to BMW Assist and have the Telematics DEACTIVATED. How different is it with your cellphone? No difference, they can still find out your exact location when neccessary. Do you turn off your cellphone? When everything works properly, there will be no sleep preventer and no parasitic draw. It is recommended (by me and not BMW) to either disconnect the battery if you are going on a long trip and if the vehicle sits for more than 3-7 days it's common sense to start the engine and let it idle outside of your garage. This way when you are ready to drive it, you know it will run.
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Last edited by BMW_tech; 07-21-2008 at 04:35 PM.
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  #31  
Old 07-21-2008, 09:18 PM
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The difference between BMW Assist and cellphone is that I can expect to receive incoming communications on the cell phone as part of normal use, and therefore have reason to keep it on. I would NEVER expect to be contacted by BMW Assist via the telematics in the vehicle during normal use, especially when the vehicle is parked. Why the system still has to send out a beacon signal is still beyond my understanding (especially when it's parked inside my own garage, unstolen.)

I don't disagree with your common sense recommendations of disconnecting the battery during long-term parking or starting it at least once a week. But how secure, practical or possible is doing such when, say, one must park for over a week in long-term parking in a public facility such as an airport garage? (My battery died in less than 48 hours in the hands of the dealer!) Everyone can continue to offer band-aid fixes such as putting the car on a battery charger at home or driving x amount of miles religiously every day. But it's obvious that certain BMWs are experiencing persistent and replicable issues with fundamental electronic components or systems that ultimately result in premature battery drainage. In my case, I will be interested in finding out whether my TCU is causing the parasitic drain, and whether the way the TCU "normally" functions (by activating every 15 minutes perpetually) exacerbated my battery drainage.

If the only way to solve this problem is to deactivate the telematics, then I'll have them turn it off and then cancel BMW Assist. (The BMW Assist came complimentary of the premium package. hah - what compliments! ) But I can't believe that the telematics SYSTEM is the culprit (it could be a faulty UNIT), because the majority of everyone else who is not having this problem is obviously happy with the way their telematics system functions in the background. So then why can't mine?
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  #32  
Old 07-22-2008, 12:32 AM
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One of the things I find curious is how well BMW mucks up electronic integration of equipment and the use of software to support it.

It seems to me that half the troubles people go through here is the lack of proper application and understanding of the symetry required of modern electronics.

When I first installed my sound system all I got was people scoffing at how I would ruin the vehicle. I never had one electronic failure (with the obvious exception for those that know) and this is with multiple blue tooth connections and more.

I took regular readings and stored them in the event that I needed to disprove the impact of my changes. I never needed them.

It seems to me that maybe BMW should partner with a notable electronics firm such as Alpine, Pioneer, or Garmin for their GPS. For all their wonderful mechanical work here is what the business CD player looks like as an example:

I mean they don't make the tires right?

Please don't get me wrong. I love my MT 08, but they do need better user electronics.
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  #33  
Old 07-23-2008, 12:38 AM
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Evlengr, you're an egineer right? Not an electrical engineer perhaps? In your experiences, anything that retains power or fed by a constant power supply is bound to malfunction from time to time. Wether it's failure to switch the pole (relay) or short circuit due to poor solder on the circuit board that's exposed to intense heat. (Only the LCM has the heatsink built in, if I recall) And when these power hungry soldered in e-proms and electrical thingamajigs aren't powered down every now and then (just like our PC's and laptops), they are more prone to become parasites and that's when things get ugly. To this day, we have control unit reset. The TCU is known to stop responding and appear to suffer from a coma. You disconnect the power to it and repair/reprogram it with the latest PROGMAN to prevent it from reocurring. We also referred to another procedure as "battery reset" where we disconnect both terminals and bled off the remaining voltage by touching the 2 poles of the cable (disconnected from the battery). This method de-energizes any stuck relays or electronic thingamajigs housed inside the control modules. They can affect communication/data lines preventing any IPO (input/processing/output) from taking place. As they are called off in order to assume sleep mode, you can imagine what happens next.
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  #34  
Old 07-23-2008, 06:22 AM
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In Perspective

Jack of many trades in engineering (EE,RF, and Comp Sci.). I agree that equipment in vehicles is prone to failure due to the temperature extremes it is exposed to. However, it seems to me that there is an unusually high amount of failure in the electronics because it may be farmed out to the wrong folks.

This is based upon the responses I see from folks, your analysis (very informative) exploring the electrical systems of the X3, and what I know is required spec wise for a hostile environment (transmitter sites are exposed to extreme temp).

Where a computer at home does not need high spec equipment cars do. The battery you described is just that, but the electrical systems are not. That is why I showed the car stereo. No heats sinks, the cabling and molex connectors are white and not black as they shoud be (white nylon and plastic crack and become brittle faster due to heat and UV).

So I agree that there is a parasitic value at work here, but I think better design (such as the battery itself) would help prevent that, and that the customer is not at fault. And this should have been handled better by the dealer.

After all this is a BMW and not a Hyundai we are talking about.

Last edited by Evlengr; 07-23-2008 at 07:57 AM.
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  #35  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:50 AM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Ok guys, hope you can help me out now. I got busy at work, so it took a few days to get the car to the dealership. Finally called Assist earlier in the week. They originally were not willing to tow it, only come out and jump start it (again). So, I demanded that no, it needed to be tow to the dealership...period. They did. The SA that called me seemed nice enough. I explained the problem, I thought he understood.

Well, I just came back from lunch to a voicemail from him. He said they ran the logs, supposedly did an overnight "test" (didn't give me specifics). And it was just that the car is not driven enough!!

I am so livid, I don't know what to do. In his message, he said that 20 or 30 minutes do not cut it. That it had to be driven more. Excuse me? I live near Washington, D.C. the most congested area imaginable!! With the cost of gas at what it is, how on earth can they DEMAND that the car be taken on longer trips more frequently? Again, I ask... how is it that my '08 535XI is driven at most 10 miles a day (round trip) and I have never encountered this issue?

Can anyone offer me suggestions on what I should do? Thanks in advance!!
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  #36  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:06 AM
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I live in the DC area as well. I went from driving from the outskirts into Bethesda (traffic nightmare) 2 hours, to now driving only 10 minutes to work (trumpets playing happy dance).

According to their prognosis my car should die out every day.

That is a buncha' BS to put it lightly.

Take it to another dealer and let corporate know what's going on.

When you run into these issues the key to happiness is documentation and second opinion.

Good Luck
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  #37  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:38 AM
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Can anyone offer me suggestions on what I should do? Thanks in advance!!
In order:

Take it to a different dealer.
If the second dealer can't correct the problem, ask for a trade assist.
If BMW NA won't grant you a trade assist, start lemon law proceedings.
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  #38  
Old 08-01-2008, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for the replies! Unfortunately, taking it to another dealer:

1) There aren't a lot of them in my area...the closest is about 25 minutes away. I have absolutely no ability to be able to pick the car up and get it to them (I'm on a huge work project, and am working from 5 a.m. until after midnight most nights arrrgh). Regardless, though...here's an interesting follow-up (I called and spoke with the SA)

He told me that they defer to BMW NA on issues they cannot diagnose (i.e. my issue). He says they ran the drain test overnight, did everything, and when they printed out the logs and went to NA, they said it's the low miles...that's it. I called another dealership just for the heck of it, and they said that they would have to do the same thing (follow protocol) and would not get a different answer. So, going to another dealership seems pointless.

In addition, he told me that it is printed in the manual that the car has to be driven a minimum of 200 to 300 miles a month. Thus, this issue is "my fault" (well, he didn't say it that way, but said it was a non-manufacturer issue)...So, I have to in addition to not getting any good answers, pay nearly $200 for the service visit!! Unfortunately, the manual is in the car, so I can't even look it up to see if he is right about it being in the manual! (anyone know if this is true?)

What I find frustrating, and told the SA...Is that when I was looking at Bimmer's for the first time, I joked about how lucky I was to live where I do. Everything I need is within five miles, so I do not do alot of driving (my Mustang Mach I, which I traded in, was 3 years old with only 2,200 miles!!). When I was getting the car, they NEVER mentioned anything about low mileage and how it would affect the battery. In fact, they squealed with glee because I would get an even better price on my lease with the "low mileage option".

What on earth do I do now? He told me this is the case with ALL BMW vehicles, because I asked if the new models were better, and he said no...same issue! In fact, said that since I drive my own car so few miles, the SAME thing will happen to my 535!
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  #39  
Old 08-01-2008, 02:31 PM
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I have a solar battery maintainer.

I used it for my e34 535i. That car would often sit for a month between drives. With the solar panel it would start right up every time.


Mine is the one VW uses. Found one on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-So...spagenameZWDVW


The type of solar cells VW uses only lasts 4 to 5 years. Should be good enough.
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  #40  
Old 08-01-2008, 03:51 PM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
I have a solar battery maintainer.

I used it for my e34 535i. That car would often sit for a month between drives. With the solar panel it would start right up every time.


Mine is the one VW uses. Found one on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-So...spagenameZWDVW


The type of solar cells VW uses only lasts 4 to 5 years. Should be good enough.
Any idea how long a new vehicle should be able to sit before it becomes trouble? In my case, at the most on weekends (I drive Monday-Friday). In my mom's case, every few days. But the SA says that our "local" driving isn't sufficient. That is has to be taken on long road trips as often as possible. I WISH I had the time to take my car on a road trip, but I don't! (I work full time and in school full time I barely have time to catch my breath!) I guess I'm just stunned that new vehicle would be so fussy!
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  #41  
Old 08-01-2008, 08:15 PM
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Any idea how long a new vehicle should be able to sit before it becomes trouble? In my case, at the most on weekends (I drive Monday-Friday). In my mom's case, every few days. But the SA says that our "local" driving isn't sufficient. That is has to be taken on long road trips as often as possible. I WISH I had the time to take my car on a road trip, but I don't! (I work full time and in school full time I barely have time to catch my breath!) I guess I'm just stunned that new vehicle would be so fussy!
No, this is ridiculous. Based on what you said the battery should be just fine. You need to speak to someone else there that has some authority, go to another dealer, or complain to BMW headquarters. Unless you are leaving out some piece of important information there should be no issues. You have a bad battery or something else undiagnosed.

There is no way in the freakin world the car needs to be driven on long rides regularly, just total bunk and I'd be furious for being treated as an ignoramus. And they should be embarrassed for reaching these kind of b.s. conclusions and wasting your time. Write a letter.
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  #42  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:52 PM
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Ok go to an ASE certfied BMW mechanic and get him to give you a diagnosis.

This is complete malarky. There is no way that the battery will go dead like this with an 07 X3 unless their is more to the story.

BTW if you have a 07 X3 they are supposed to pick up the vehicle and give you a loaner.

Even with all the troubles I had with my previous X3 I was NEVER denied a loaner. And they always picked up the vehicle for service.

You will get a questionnare from BMWNA concerning your service. Give the dealer poor marks and you will get a direct call from corporate.

That's is when things will start moving.
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  #43  
Old 08-01-2008, 11:23 PM
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Thanks Mitch and Evlengr for the posts. As far as the car and any additional info, I promise there is "no more" to the story. My mom is 58, not much to tell there...She goes to run errands, occasional trips to Home Depot, nothing very exciting. The only thing that happened with the car recently is that the rear windshield shattered. It was during a heatwave here in Virginia and temps were in the high 90's. She went out to the car, and the rear windshield had completely "spider-webbed" with a huge hole where it had shattered. But, nothing else about the driving save her not driving it ALL the time.

Regardless, we're two women who have always taken very good care of our vehicles. I'm quite frustrated with BMW, because I've never been a complainer or a difficult client. The customer service aspect is definitely lacking with this encounter! I don't intend to take this lightly. I was honest with them from the get-go about the use of the vehicle and was honest with the SA about how it's being driven. To, one, say too bad you HAVE to drive it more is insane and two, to suggest a trickle charger is quite asinine on a premium vehicle such as BMW that is THAT new. I don't let it sit for months at a time, but in this last case, the car was driven the day BEFORE! Less than a day, and the battery goes dead? That's just crazy.

Thanks again! I am going to calm myself and attempt to figure out the best course of action to take. Right now it's still at the dealership.
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  #44  
Old 08-02-2008, 12:13 AM
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Have they given you a loaner and did they pick up the vehicle for service?

That is part of purchasing a BMW nowadays.

I live in the DC area and there are more BMW dealerships than most of the entire east coast.

Competition for your business is tight and service is part of that. A dealership makes a large portion of their profits from service.

If they are not providing you with a loaner and pickup there are many other dealers that will love to have your service business and they (your current dealer) offer no incentive for you to go to them.

Let them know that.

Last edited by Evlengr; 08-02-2008 at 02:07 AM.
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  #45  
Old 08-02-2008, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Koda1021 View Post
Any idea how long a new vehicle should be able to sit before it becomes trouble? In my case, at the most on weekends (I drive Monday-Friday). In my mom's case, every few days. But the SA says that our "local" driving isn't sufficient. That is has to be taken on long road trips as often as possible. I WISH I had the time to take my car on a road trip, but I don't! (I work full time and in school full time I barely have time to catch my breath!) I guess I'm just stunned that new vehicle would be so fussy!


That has NOT been our experience with any car we've ever owned. Until we turned in the Mazda last week our X3 was mostly a week end car. It would often sit for days. When we do drive it, we often only go on short trips. Work is 2.5 miles away. The nearest two supermarkets are less than a mile away.

I've looked in the owner's manual and I can't find anywhere that is says you have to drive some minimum distance every month. Sounds like a bunch of noise from the SA. In the last 11 months we have put 6,200 miles on the X3. 1000 of that was in the first 3 weeks. Some months we only drove it 300 miles. However our X3 doesn't have BMW Assist. No TCU to cause trouble.

Car got so hot the rear window shattered. I wonder if the battery is a little cooked. It really could have reduced capacity.


1,000 miles a year is really really low. When I saw that along with the normal drain from the TCU, I thought well maybe you aren't driving enough to charge the battery back up. Try getting a good solar charger. Something in the 5W-10W range. The little ones don't do anything.

Try taking the car to a different dealer. The one you are using now is making emotional rather than factual arguments. Time to move on.



Andrew

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 08-02-2008 at 08:26 AM.
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  #46  
Old 08-02-2008, 08:53 AM
Mitch3672 Mitch3672 is offline
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While we live in Canada, for the last few months it has been hot like a furnace around town and we mostly use our X3 on weekend and the local errands like most families. Many times the car sits in our garage from Sunday evening until Friday evening not used. Then when we do drive it often it is just to go somewhere close. Guess what? The car starts "STRONG LIKE BULL" every time I turn the ignition. To top it off we experience howling wind and temps as low as -25C for months in winter using the defroster and all the cars systems etc. Guess what? Car starts "STRONG LIKE BULL" every time I turn the ignition.

So tell your dealer to wake-up!! Have them call a dealer in Montreal or Toronto and ask them about battery performace etc. No chance a Canadian dealer would offer such a pitiful excuse (at least for this issue). We'd all have a good laugh if your condition were normal because guess what? No one's X3 in Canada would ever start!!! My brother-in-law leaves his late model Bimmer sometimes for 4 weeks at a time, and still no starting problems with his 3.
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  #47  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:02 AM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Have they given you a loaner and did they pick up the vehicle for service?

That is part of purchasing a BMW nowadays.

I live in the DC area and there are more BMW dealerships than most of the entire east coast.

Competition for your business is tight and service is part of that. A dealership makes a large portion of their profits from service.

If they are not providing you with a loaner and pickup there are many other dealers that will love to have your service business and they (your current dealer) offer no incentive for you to go to them.

Let them know that.
No, I didn't get a loaner and I had to fight to get the tow. Granted, was I supposed to contact the service department? I actually called them prior to calling Assist. I wanted to let them the know I was having the car towed to them. They didn't ask me anything else, nor did they ask if I needed a loaner. I'll admit, I didn't really care as it's my mom's car and she could do without it for a few days so I didn't make an issue about them giving me a loaner. When I called Assist, they originally refused to even tow it and told me that no, all they would do is come out and jump it AGAIN.

As far as other dealers in the area..I'm in Fairfax, and the closest two are Arlington and Stirling, neither of which are close...especially for someone like me that gets up at 5 a.m. and doesn't get off work until midnight most days! My original intention was that the car was going to get fixed and that a co-worker would run me off at lunchtime to pick it up.

Right now, the car is still at the dealership. I'm deciding what course of action to take before I pick it up.
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  #48  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:06 AM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Mein Auto: BMW 535XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
That has NOT been our experience with any car we've ever owned. Until we turned in the Mazda last week our X3 was mostly a week end car. It would often sit for days. When we do drive it, we often only go on short trips. Work is 2.5 miles away. The nearest two supermarkets are less than a mile away.

I've looked in the owner's manual and I can't find anywhere that is says you have to drive some minimum distance every month. Sounds like a bunch of noise from the SA. In the last 11 months we have put 6,200 miles on the X3. 1000 of that was in the first 3 weeks. Some months we only drove it 300 miles. However our X3 doesn't have BMW Assist. No TCU to cause trouble.

Car got so hot the rear window shattered. I wonder if the battery is a little cooked. It really could have reduced capacity.


1,000 miles a year is really really low. When I saw that along with the normal drain from the TCU, I thought well maybe you aren't driving enough to charge the battery back up. Try getting a good solar charger. Something in the 5W-10W range. The little ones don't do anything.

Try taking the car to a different dealer. The one you are using now is making emotional rather than factual arguments. Time to move on.



Andrew
Just for clarification, I'm the one who drives the low miles...About 1,400 a year. My mom's car has 3,500 miles on it. She actually drives more than I do. My car hasn't experienced any battery issues (although according to the dealer, it will eventually).

As far as a solar charger, to be honest, if we were dealing with an older car then I would be ameniable to trying it. But, in a vehicle that is a year old and touted as it is, it's not acceptable. I've never had this issue with any car I or my mother have had in the past, and I'm not going to accept that it's just "the way it is".
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  #49  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:23 AM
Evlengr's Avatar
Evlengr Evlengr is offline
Ukemi - that's how I roll
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,252
Mein Auto: 2013 Audi S4 2010 MT MCS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda1021 View Post
No, I didn't get a loaner and I had to fight to get the tow. Granted, was I supposed to contact the service department? I actually called them prior to calling Assist. I wanted to let them the know I was having the car towed to them. They didn't ask me anything else, nor did they ask if I needed a loaner. I'll admit, I didn't really care as it's my mom's car and she could do without it for a few days so I didn't make an issue about them giving me a loaner. When I called Assist, they originally refused to even tow it and told me that no, all they would do is come out and jump it AGAIN.

As far as other dealers in the area..I'm in Fairfax, and the closest two are Arlington and Stirling, neither of which are close...especially for someone like me that gets up at 5 a.m. and doesn't get off work until midnight most days! My original intention was that the car was going to get fixed and that a co-worker would run me off at lunchtime to pick it up.

Right now, the car is still at the dealership. I'm deciding what course of action to take before I pick it up.
I should probably take this to PM at this point, but your dealer should pick up your vehicle and drop off a loaner. That was/is part and parcel of warranty service for BMW's nowadays.

Also, I left my iPod in the "On" state all night and tested the voltage prior to and post with a calibrated Fluke Voltmeter. It barely registered a difference.

I will also be going on a trip this week (without my vehicle) so I will check the battery prior and post and let you know.

Call corporate and give bad marks to your dealer on the questionnaire.

PM if you have additional questions or info and I'll try to help as will most on this board.

GL
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  #50  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:26 AM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 25
Mein Auto: BMW 535XI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
I should probably take this to PM at this point, but your dealer should pick up your vehicle and drop off a loaner. That was/is part and parcel of warranty service for BMW's nowadays.

Also, I left my iPod in the "On" state all night and tested the voltage prior to and post with a calibrated Fluke Voltmeter. It barely registered a difference.

I will also be going on a trip this week (without my vehicle) so I will check the battery prior and post and let you know.

Call corporate and give bad marks to your dealer on the questionnaire.

PM if you have additional questions or info and I'll try to help as will most on this board.

GL
Thanks so much! I really do appreciate it!

Update from this morning. I called BMW NA. I explained the problem, and got the SAME response. She basically told me too bad. The vehicle HAS to be driven a certain number of miles to charge it properly. She said if it isn't, then the battery doesn't charge properly and that's why it's dying. She told me my only choice was to purchase a trickle charge AND too bad, I have to pay for the service call. Period.

I asked her, where does it state that you are required to drive a certain number of miles, and again...why didn't the dealer point this out to me when I was purchasing BOTH of my vehicles? She told me that's the dealerships fault, and again, too bad. There is nothing wrong with the vehicle. When I asked her what I took a trip and left the car in long term parking at the airport, shouldn't it work when I return, again, she said not if I didn't drive it enough!

Is my only option going to be getting an attorney and just getting out of my contract on both vehicles? At the least, I want out of my mom's contract. With the price of gas, I cannot afford to waste money on her driving around all day long. Based on what they are telling me, I have no choice in the matter...either drive it more or buy the trickle charger!
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