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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

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  #51  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:38 AM
rs6654 rs6654 is offline
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BMW Battery Maintainer

I'm not making any judgements as to whether the car is at fault or if it isn't driven enough.

That being said, this is the charger I kept on my BMW K1200LT when it was parked and it kept the battery hot all the time. My back didn't allow me to ride it as much as I would have liked so it sat for long periods. Before I bought the charger it would be dead when I did feel good enough to ride.

http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=1357
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  #52  
Old 08-04-2008, 07:42 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Koda,

Check for a PM from me...
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  #53  
Old 08-09-2008, 06:13 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Ok after being away for 5 days and leaving my iPod on; drawing current in my X3.

I took current and voltage readings using a calibrated Fluke 73III multimeter.

There was NO appreciable drop in either current of voltage.

My X3 turned right over. So have the SA check over their work if they continue to blame the lack of driving.
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  #54  
Old 08-12-2008, 07:37 AM
arcticdog arcticdog is offline
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My issue is still unresolved. It's back in service as I write now.

Last time, they thought it was the TCU, but it wasn't.
They said they found a draw from the body control module, and replaced it.
Got car back, and it died in just two days AGAIN. Something else was draining the battery.

Back in service now. This time they said the navigation unit was drawing. Swapped units to test that theory. It wasn't the nav unit, but some light module or whatever controlling the nav unit that is said to be berzerk. Such part that needs replacing is said to be on "national back order" for at least a week...



At least the loaner of the draw this extended time is a 335ix.
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  #55  
Old 08-13-2008, 08:55 PM
Schmebi Schmebi is offline
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Dead Car

So I came back from my lovely 2 week vacation and my car wouldn't turn on. The key wouldn't work, nothing. Then I put the battery on a charger for awhile and then the key worked and the instrument panel lit up but when I turned the key, it was a click click click...the car wouldn't start even being jumped. Engine would not turn over.

Called roadside assistance and they came and towed my car to my dealership. I really didn't think much about it, but am I going to have a huge bill due tomorrow?

I have become so used to warranty work, I haven't thought twice, but is this something that BMW does not cover?

On a side not, I think it is completely ridiculous that my car wouldn't start after I got back. I am just glad I didn't park it at the airport. My husband's SAAB started just fine
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  #56  
Old 08-14-2008, 05:22 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Extreme heat and cold are the death knell of all electronics and their compatriot parts. However, their seems to be a growing trend with the X3's batteries in hot conditions.

As an engineer I have seen many things that on paper and according to physics should work, but in the field fail on a consistent basis. Maybe this is one of them.

I believe this should be in warranty. If it's not replace it with a pro-series battery and see the difference.
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  #57  
Old 08-15-2008, 10:26 AM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Ok after being away for 5 days and leaving my iPod on; drawing current in my X3.

I took current and voltage readings using a calibrated Fluke 73III multimeter.

There was NO appreciable drop in either current of voltage.

My X3 turned right over. So have the SA check over their work if they continue to blame the lack of driving.
Thanks for the test! Well, in my case, the mileage demand just won't fly. Since my mom doesn't work, it's crazy to spend money on gas for her to drive more than her usual errands and such. So, I just have to get out of the contract on her vehicle at the very least.

You mentioned in the previous post about extreme temps. That might have been a factor with our X3, since the all three times the battery died was during extreme heatwaves. But then again, nothing I can do about it. We don't have a garage to park it in...It has to be parked outdoors.
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  #58  
Old 08-15-2008, 12:08 PM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda1021 View Post
TSince my mom doesn't work, it's crazy to spend money on gas for her to drive more than her usual errands and such. So, I just have to get out of the contract on her vehicle at the very least. We don't have a garage to park it in...It has to be parked outdoors.
BMW isn't going to help. The best you could hope for is a trade assist and that will just get your mom into a new X3 at a reduced price. Look into finding someone to assume the lease. If you return the car early, it will be very expensive. Possibly as much as all the remaining payments.

A solar trickle-charger would be a lot cheaper than gas or a new car.

Back when we had three cars I used one all the time. I got my VW one for free, but they show up on eBay for about $20.


Very easy to use. Suction cup it onto the windshield and then plug it into the lighter socket. That's it. Car needs to get some full sun every day to keep the battery topped off. It won't charge a dead battery but it is enough to keep the battery charged even if you don't drive for a month.

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 08-15-2008 at 12:15 PM.
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  #59  
Old 08-15-2008, 12:25 PM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
BMW isn't going to help. The best you could hope for is a trade assist and that will just get your mom into a new X3 at a reduced price. Look into finding someone to assume the lease. If you return the car early, it will be very expensive. Possibly as much as all the remaining payments.

A solar trickle-charger would be a lot cheaper than gas or a new car.

Back when we had three cars I used one all the time. I got my VW one for free, but they show up on eBay for about $20.


Very easy to use. Suction cup it onto the windshield and then plug it into the lighter socket. That's it. Car needs to get some full sun every day to keep the battery topped off. It won't charge a dead battery but it is enough to keep the battery charged even if you don't drive for a month.
Well, she doesn't let it sit for months at a time, or even a month for that matter. It's 3 days tops most days. BMW is claiming, though, that 20-30 on those days is not sufficient and that it has to be driven longer distances.

As far as looking to them (BMW) to assist me, I gave up on that a long time ago. I have an attorney who is working on it (and has seen this situation several times).
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  #60  
Old 09-01-2008, 10:27 AM
lionzuest lionzuest is offline
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BMW X3 Battery Agony

Hi Koda and Koda supporters,
I arrived at this forum today for the first time in utter frustration, having wrestled with a similar (and possibly worse) battery issue with my 2004 BMW X3...I am on my 3rd battery... I met with the same BMW rhetoric when I first complained of the problem... I was told I didn't drive the car enough or that it was improperly stored when I was away (I might leave the car for up to 6 months)... After a year and maybe 6 jump starts, I required a new battery...I insisted BMW come and evaluate the car, they blamed me, but gave me a new battery... After 3 months, my new battery began to falter as well and again, I was blamed as my storgae guy hadn't put it on a trickle charger... I bought another new battery this May myself and have driven the car every day since...
I broke a toe on my left foot last week and thought it best to stay off the clutch...I didn't use th X3 for three days and guess what ?... DEAD..... I jumped the car, drove it 80 miles, parked it in the driveway and the next day it was DEAD...I bought a trickle charger, hooked it up on slow charge, checked it after 10 hours and it started up fine...Today, 12 hours later DEAD...
Now here is the interesting thing...I have the same BMW X3 in Switzerland, same colour, same year, same edition, original 2004 battery, sweet car...We leave it for months in the garage, no charger, no nothing, starts every time.....
I can't tell you how rude and unhelpful the reps at my agency have been, I assumed it was because I am female, but from what I've read on the net this morning it seems that it's non discriminatory rudeness....
My car is too old to fight BMW on this...
I will have to learn to use a charger... The solar one recommended here would probably be difficult to manage if left over the winter...Any suggestions on a good long term charger?...Vehicle would be in an unheated garage with electricity, no sun...
Also, is there a trick to charging these things?...I tried the poles in the front, but now have excavated the battery in the trunk... I confess, I haven't been able to check the battery levels as I can;t seem to get the top off the battery case... (groan)..
Thanks...Lion
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  #61  
Old 09-02-2008, 08:51 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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The start battery sealed. You do not have to open it up and top off the electrolyte.


If the lighter socket stays on when the car is asleep, you can use that to connect a trickle charger.

The BMW branded trickle charger should work fine. It is pricey though.

Part number is 82 11 0 024 663



http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=82110026663
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  #62  
Old 09-02-2008, 02:20 PM
rs6654 rs6654 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
The BMW branded trickle charger should work fine. It is pricey though.

Part number is 82 11 0 024 663



http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=82110026663
Looks like the same one I used on my bike and it worked great! They are especially programmed for AGM batteries. You can connect it and forget it.

http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=1357.
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  #63  
Old 09-09-2008, 06:39 PM
X3Woe X3Woe is offline
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Hello,

I am a new participant on these boards (unhappily). I purchased a CPO '07 X3 two months ago. The car drove fine if I drove it every day. But if I left it over a weekend (parked Friday, next driving it on Monday), the car would not start. This happened three weeks after I purchased the car.

The first time, BMW service recharged the depleted battery, claiming that it had depleted on the lot before I purchased it. Two weeks later, in the same situation (car left two or more days not started), the car wouldn't start again. This time they replaced the battery, saying perhaps the battery was bad and didn't take the charge. Again, two weeks later, the same situation occurred. The car wouldn't start after leaving for two days alone. Now, the third time, BMW claims that they've identified the issue, that it's some software issue that causes the car to hibernate slowly, basically running down the battery before it hibernates completely. I'm not a tech-y, and have no way of validating this "cure" to the start problems. They claim to have fixed the problem by updating some software.

I am loath to believe the problem is fixed, but I'd like to ask the experienced members of the board who have experience with this issue, particularly BMW Tech, if this kind of solution is a durable solution. If they updated the software, is it really fixed? Obviously I can, and will, leave the car for two days to "test" out the fix, but I'm reluctant to hang on to this vehicle if this kind of problem is persistent.

I am definitely in lemon law territory and know my rights. I like the vehicle, and if it's fixed, then I may be fine with it. But if more folks on this board have dealt with this issue, and find this to be just a temporary fix, and not durable, then I will push for a Trade Assist or a buyback under Massachusetts Used Vehicle Warranty Law.

Any insight is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance. I cannot deal with this car breaking down a fourth time for the same issue.
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  #64  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:58 AM
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X3-terrestrial X3-terrestrial is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3Woe View Post
I can, and will, leave the car for two days to "test" out the fix...
I would test it first to make sure the problem is fixed and go from there.
Welcome to Bimmerfest!
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  #65  
Old 09-10-2008, 11:57 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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If this is a software issue then you may be in trouble.

Mechanics they have down pretty well.

Unfotunatley, BMW seems to have a knack for not permanently fixing anything software or firmware related.

If you can get a DC-Voltmeter or Multi-meter and test the voltage right away to get a "Baseline"

It should be around 12.5 when the vehicle is off,and 14.4 when the vehicle is running with no electronics on.

If after a day or two you see a drop of more than a volt. Then there's a problem.
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  #66  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:43 PM
X3Woe X3Woe is offline
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Thanks Evlengr.

Apparently this is a software issue, but I don't have a lot of details to determine whether it relates to earlier posts on this thread. After the 3rd apparent "fix", I'm concerned that this is just another guess from Service about what may be happening. They did get BMW NA involved to help address the problem, but I have low confidence that this vehicle will be reliable and safe for the long-term after 4 service visits in a short time. I'm really concerned about the durability of the vehicle.
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  #67  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:53 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Man what is with the 07' X3's.

Gives a whole new meaning to odd year.
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  #68  
Old 10-14-2008, 10:59 PM
Koda1021 Koda1021 is offline
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Sorry everyone for not checking the forums. I've been on a grueling work project that has kept me in the office for 12+ hours a day. Between work and trying to go to school (getting an accounting degree), I've been busy to say the least.

A few interesting things have happened to me since first posting. Two weeks after the mechanic at BMW "re-charged it properly" as he claimed, the battery was dead (had been driven the day before). It was re-jumped, and the very next day it died. It won't hold a charge at all. It's been jumped four times, and each time dies within a day.

I filed a BBB complaint. The inspector came out to inspect the vehicle, and he concluded that the battery was faulty, or that there is a parasitic leak draining the battery. It clearly states in his report that the numbers/readings were not right and there is something wrong with the vehicle. However, BMW is now claiming (their side) that they will fix it.

Unfortunately, I leased the car at the end of November '06. The attorney I retained didn't work fast enough, so I'm past a lemon-law suit. I'm basically paying on a vehicle that I can't drive, and to make matters worse, was socked with a $1k personal property tax bill for the car today to boot! I haven't yet figured out what I'm going to do. I'm considering sending an e-mail to the dealership GM (he's a new GM, and seems to be bending over backwards to repair their bad customer service reputation)...and copying a slew of BMW execs (as high up the chain as I can get) to see if maybe I can get out of this vehicle.

It just seems like a jinxed car at this point!
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  #69  
Old 10-15-2008, 07:17 AM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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  • Contact BMWNA
  • Get Another Lawyer
  • Document Everything--essentially make a diary of events.
  • Defintely try to the new GM--you want the dealer on your side
  • If need be get an ASE certfied mechanic to verify the BBB's findings and present to BMWNA and Dealer

    Don't give up--be polite but persistent.

    EE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koda1021 View Post
Sorry everyone for not checking the forums. I've been on a grueling work project that has kept me in the office for 12+ hours a day. Between work and trying to go to school (getting an accounting degree), I've been busy to say the least.

A few interesting things have happened to me since first posting. Two weeks after the mechanic at BMW "re-charged it properly" as he claimed, the battery was dead (had been driven the day before). It was re-jumped, and the very next day it died. It won't hold a charge at all. It's been jumped four times, and each time dies within a day.

I filed a BBB complaint. The inspector came out to inspect the vehicle, and he concluded that the battery was faulty, or that there is a parasitic leak draining the battery. It clearly states in his report that the numbers/readings were not right and there is something wrong with the vehicle. However, BMW is now claiming (their side) that they will fix it.

Unfortunately, I leased the car at the end of November '06. The attorney I retained didn't work fast enough, so I'm past a lemon-law suit. I'm basically paying on a vehicle that I can't drive, and to make matters worse, was socked with a $1k personal property tax bill for the car today to boot! I haven't yet figured out what I'm going to do. I'm considering sending an e-mail to the dealership GM (he's a new GM, and seems to be bending over backwards to repair their bad customer service reputation)...and copying a slew of BMW execs (as high up the chain as I can get) to see if maybe I can get out of this vehicle.

It just seems like a jinxed car at this point!
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  #70  
Old 02-10-2013, 12:24 AM
estocks estocks is offline
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Originally Posted by BMW_tech View Post
What the dealership should have done is perform a closed circuit measurement to see how much it takes to kill the battery. If the car is kept in a garage and the key is not removed from the ignition lock completely (semi-removed status), there is a critical distance between the key and the ring antenna where the EWS will detect status permanently changing between "key inserted" and "key removed". This will result in a permanent closed circuit current of approximately 800 mA. If the vehicle doesn't go to sleep in 16 minutes at 30 milliamp normal draw, there is a sleep preventer. The few X3 that I have came across turned out to be TCU waking up the whole car as it checks the status of the car. The TCU needed to be repaired using the MOXA, the other X3 's I came across had expired contract so the Telematics feature was deactivated. On vehicles equipped with BMW Assist, there are additional current fluctuations as high as 500ma that last for approximately 2 minutes. The fluctuations occur every 15 minutes for up to 14 hours after key off. This is considered normal operation of the TCU and should not be considered a fault. Faults of course should have been checked. If there is a module that isn't responding, that's the sleep preventer. And when voltage drops below 10 volts, it's when relays (and all electric switches you see at radio shack or circuit boards) go crazy and click away. When happens they stick and continues flow of voltage from the relay or module to the corresponding component it powers. So that makes it even quicker to kill a battery after having been recharged or recovered. It will eventually kill a cell, as they would feed off of each other. VRLA or AGM battery :

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...71&hg=61&fg=30

We are now using a different type of battery so know that this isn't what your other cars have. AGM stands for absorbent glass mat, or absorbent glass-fiber fleece. VRLA as it is also known means valve-regulated lead acid, or a lead battery with a pressure relief valve. In contrast to conventional lead-calcium batteries, the sulfuric acid in a battery with fleece technology is not held as a liquid in the battery housing, but rather it is completely bound (100%) in the glass-fiber fleece (separators). This gives increased security against the acid escaping and thus reduces the environmental risk. For this reason, no acid can escape if the battery housing is damaged. In addition, the AGM battery is sealed to be airtight. This is possible because the gases are converted back into water by the permeability of the separators. AGM batteries differ from conventional lead-calcium batteries in their environmental compatibility and their retention of gases during charging.

When a vehicle battery is charged, the electrolysis process emits the gases oxygen and hydrogen.

In a conventional lead-calcium battery, these two gases are released into the atmosphere.

In an AGM battery, the two gases are converted back into water: The oxygen created at the positive electrode during charging moves through the permeable glass-fiber fleece to the negative electrode, where it reacts with the hydrogen ions that are brought in with the electrolyte, to create water (oxygen cycle). In this manner, the gases, and thus the electrolyte, is not lost.

Only when the gas production is excessive, that is when too much pressure is generated (20 to 200 mbar), does the pressure-relief valve open, thereby allowing gas to escape while also preventing entry of atmospheric oxygen. Because the pressure in the battery is regulated by a valve, the AGM battery is also known as the VRLA battery (valve-regulated lead acid).

For more info on what causes car batteries to fail : http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-42B.htm
Thanks for the super informative post. After my iBus sleeps I drop to 83mA without the alarm set and 143mA with. Then after 3 further minutes that drops to 48mA without and 103mA with.


I appear to be 70mA over your 30mA budget. I also have a CDMA TCU, car is a 2008 LCI.

I'm measuring 14.0V when the engine is running at the battery terminals. Battery is a new Duracell, AGM, the big one. Dunno how long it was sat on the shelf though.

Car was dealer maintained until last summer and seems to be reasonably up to date with firmware updates.

Car is dropping to 12.2V over just a few days and turning over sluggishly. Car is being use for grocery runabout duties and the weekend jaunts. Dreading leaving it for 2 weeks at the airport lol!

Car was at 12.68V after today's run out, 12.56V after u did my current measurements, ill remeasure in the morning. I don't have a storage scope to record overnight but I might be able to set that up if I borrow some gear from work.
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  #71  
Old 02-10-2013, 01:31 AM
estocks estocks is offline
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Ok so it's the middle of the night but I got curious.

After 16 minutes I'm at 16mA without the alarm and with the alarm I'm at 16mA with 30mA pulses every few seconds which is probably the LED.
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  #72  
Old 02-12-2013, 10:04 AM
ghpup ghpup is offline
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Originally Posted by estocks View Post
Ok so it's the middle of the night but I got curious.

After 16 minutes I'm at 16mA without the alarm and with the alarm I'm at 16mA with 30mA pulses every few seconds which is probably the LED.
My personal experience, especially true when the weather turns REALLY cold, is that there is a constant parasitic drain that will take the vehicle down eventually if you only have short trip driving requirements (grocery runabout and weekend jaunts). I've been told by an SA that if I am not driving the vehicle more than 20 minutes each day it never has the opportunity to fully charge the battery. My typical commute is less than 5km each way to the office so if I'm not going else where I am rarely in the car for more than 10 minutes twice per day.

The indicator I've seen is a couple of odd warning lights that relate to the AWD, Traction Control and perhaps the airbag. I've eliminated these wierd occassional warning lights for more than 3 years by periodically placing the vehicle on a battery tender when it is expected to sit a couple of days. Generally after 24hours the charge shows full on the tender. Now I trade off with the ///M so it is a bit convenient with them side by side in the garage. With such a short commute I also will actually drive by the office until the oil temp gage in the ///M shows roughly 180. This means about another 10km total of driving before going to the office.
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Last edited by ghpup; 02-12-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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