fold-down rears: should I get it for my ZHP?

Good morning everyone,

I've just started my ED order for an '04 ZHP in October. The specs are Orient Blue, Natural Brown leather, and Moonroof.

I'm trying to decide is a fold-down rear would be a useful option. Any thoughts? I'm not as concerned about the loss/gain of rigidity. However, the potential of hearing the fold-down rattles is holding me back.

hmmmm.... thoughts? Do those of you who have fold-down rear use it much? I've already done a search on the board, but did not find many discussions.


I'm very interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

Ken

I didn't get them for the rigidity reason, and I like fewer moving parts. Less things to break/rattle... Plus, I doubt if I would ever actually use it.

Of course, I didn't get a moonroof for the same reasons either...

Fold-downs do have a bad rap around here. I'm a nut when it comes to rattles-- but the fold-down seats in 2001 325i haven't made any noises. Plus, if you get the alcantara/cloth trim in the ZHP, that will further reduce any possibility of noises from the 2 halves of the backrest rubbing together.

It's interesting that only BMW (or a few others) has fold down rear seat as an option. I don't have a BMW but on my car or my wife's car that have them, I have never heard a rattle, or anyone complaining about rattles from fold down rear seats. I would say, go for it, you never know, they might come out handy one day!

Originally posted by kyyuan
Good morning everyone,

I've just started my ED order for an '04 ZHP in October. The specs are Orient Blue, Natural Brown leather, and Moonroof.

I'm trying to decide is a fold-down rear would be a useful option. Any thoughts? I'm not as concerned about the loss/gain of rigidity. However, the potential of hearing the fold-down rattles is holding me back.

hmmmm.... thoughts? Do those of you who have fold-down rear use it much? I've already done a search on the board, but did not find many discussions.


I'm very interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

Ken

I never had any rattles with the fold downs in my 323Ci, and the M3 is (knocking wood) so far silent, as well. Given the option, I would never buy a car without them. The marginal increase in rigidity is simply not worth the massively decreased utility of a car with a fixed size trunk. Other people's priorities differ, though.

Originally posted by JST
the M3 is (knocking wood) so far silent, as well.

no problems here in just over 20,000 miles

If rattles are your concern then even if you get the fold downs and they do rattle there are solutions to fix it . . .

I had them in my 330Ci but chose not to get them in my 330i for rigidity reasons.

Just so you know I forgot how the whole rigidity measurements are but if I remember correctly . . . . it was something like:
12,000 for the Coupe (with folddown)
14,000 for the sedan with fold down
15,000 for the sedan without the folddown



I went from one extreme to the other sort of speak . . . if my wife didn't have a minivan I would have gotten the fold down

Originally posted by AF330i
If rattles are your concern then even if you get the fold downs and they do rattle there are solutions to fix it . . .

I had them in my 330Ci but chose not to get them in my 330i for rigidity reasons.

Just so you know I forgot how the whole rigidity measurements are but if I remember correctly . . . . it was something like:
12,000 for the Coupe (with folddown)
14,000 for the sedan with fold down
15,000 for the sedan without the folddown



I went from one extreme to the other sort of speak . . . if my wife didn't have a minivan I would have gotten the fold down

So, did your wife do the rigidity measurements?

But seriously, what's the unit of measurement for rigidity... 12,000 what? Pounds per square inch, or decibels per fathom, or BTUs per acre, or what? Whatever the unit, I'd be interested in seeing how a 330Cic would compare.

Obviously, convertibles sacrifice a lot of rigidity, although my current ride (M Roadster) is very rigid by drop-top standards, probably due to its small size. Last fall, I drove a '67 or '68 Impala convertible in a parade. At 6 miles per hour, rigidity wasn't an issue, but on the way there, at 45 mph, it was like driving an eel. Of course, you do lose some rigidity with age.

I got them on both of my 330Ci's and no rattles from the folddown seats... But I had a 330i loaner without folddown seats, and the car really felt a lot tighter. I thought that was interesting that it was really quite noticeable. (from one end to the other end, like what Alan did)...

--Andrew

Actually, it was:
13,000 for the sedan w/ folding seats.
14,000 for the Touring.
18,000 for the sedan w/o

Of course, my memory may be hazy, but I'm pretty sure that's correct.

Here we go, did a search:

Sedan (w/o folding seats): 18000Nm/deg of torsion
Sedan (w/folding seats): 13000Nm
Sport wagon (w/folding seats): 14000Nm
Coupe (w/folding seats): 12500Nm
Convertible: 10500Nm

Source was alee.

The way I see it, not having fold-down seats ensures that you won't be tempted to use the car to haul large items that'll scratch your car/trim, and get the trunk all dirty. The Hondas I'd owned all had fold-down seats, and I would frequently haul lumber (et.al.) home in them. The trunk would always end up dirty and the trim gouged.

My 93 325 has fold down that don't rattle... So I don't think that's a problem. I didn't order them on my new ZHP though only because I don't think I'll ever need them. But that's because we have other cars/trucks to haul stuff. If you think you need them I wouldn't worry too much about the rattle. Even if they did rattle, you could almost certainly find a way to fix it with felt or something.

wow...thanks for all the responses.

As AF330 said, if rattles do occur, there is a way of fixing it. It's certainly true about my "priorities," as many of you pointed out. I guess I'll give it some more thoughts.

If there is a need, I'll get it. If not, additional rigidity is always a good thing. WAXHAW...no jokes on this one. j/k

Hellow neighbors. It's nice to see so many Texas posters.

Originally posted by kyyuan
Hellow neighbors. It's nice to see so many Texas posters.

I'm from Mesquite originally...



Fold Down Seats have saved me a few times with hauling long items like picture frames and other stuff. I don't hear any rattles from mine with 25k.

If trim gets scratched... oh well at least I got to carry something that wouldn't have been able to otherwise.

Originally posted by Nick325xiT 5spd
Here we go, did a search:

Sedan (w/o folding seats): 18000Nm/deg of torsion
Sedan (w/folding seats): 13000Nm
Sport wagon (w/folding seats): 14000Nm
Coupe (w/folding seats): 12500Nm
Convertible: 10500Nm

Source was alee.

Are you sure that was a reliable source

Seriously though, I don't remember the coupe and sedan being THAT close together . . .

Anyway, I've driven all the different varieties and I always found that when I had my Coupe and jumped into the sedan with or without the folding seats, the difference was noticable . . . I was always surprised by how tight the sedan felt . . .

Now that I have a sedan without the folding rear seat whatever difference I had noticed initially is gone since I am so used to it . . .

Originally posted by waxhaw
So, did your wife do the rigidity measurements?

But seriously, what's the unit of measurement for rigidity... 12,000 what? Pounds per square inch, or decibels per fathom, or BTUs per acre, or what? Whatever the unit, I'd be interested in seeing how a 330Cic would compare.

It's a good thing Nick answered this because I had no idea of the measurement type

Has anybody gotten the Dinan shock tower brace? Does this restore the high rigidity of the non-folding rear seats well?

Originally posted by qewl
Has anybody gotten the Dinan shock tower brace? Does this restore the high rigidity of the non-folding rear seats well?

The rear one should restore some of the rigidity, but definitely not all of it. If you don't have fold down rears, the entire rear is a solid piece of metal across the back.

This is obviously a personal question. Imo, it depends on how you are going to use the car. There have been a ton of times that I was happy to have the fold down rear seats. If it's your only car, I would think they are a requirement. If it's a weekend only car, you probably don't need them.

I would have said if you don't track your car, you probably won't notice the rigidity difference, but Alan's experience says differently.

Fold down rear seats are so handy and came useful on many occasions in my coupes. No problems with any rattle in my previous 328Ci or current 330Ci (nock on wood).

I would say a must feature in 2-door cars

ok... another scenario.

Has anyone driven both a sedan w/folding and a sedan w/o folding? Is the rigidity difference apparent?

Both Alan and Andrew had the interesting experiences of going from one extreme to the other.

Thoughts? Thanks.

-Ken-

I haven't noticed any rattles from my vinyl halves, and I'm closing in on 18,000 miles. I can't speak as far as rigidity is concerned because I haven't driven a sedan without folding seats.

I don't have the luxury of owning another car. My BMW IS my "beater", which means that, in addition to meeting all my "sporty" requirements, the car needed to be somewhat practical. The folding seats were a no-brainer for me because I frequently used them in my old '92 Camry, and that car's trunk was 50% larger. (Now that I think about it, maybe I should have looked harder at the Sport Wagon. )

Seriously, if you think you'll ever use them, I recommend checking the box on the order form.

Originally posted by kyyuan
Good morning everyone,
I'm trying to decide is a fold-down rear would be a useful option. Any thoughts? I'm not as concerned about the loss/gain of rigidity. However, the potential of hearing the fold-down rattles is holding me back.

hmmmm.... thoughts? Do those of you who have fold-down rear use it much? I've already done a search on the board, but did not find many discussions.
Ken

OK, Here's my 5 cents.

I would never buy a small car (3-series is the same size as a newer corolla) w/o fold-down rear seats. Why?

1.)Although, I may only fold the rear seats 3x a year but when I do, i rather put boxes, luggage, etc.. on the folded carpeted rear seats than have to fish for towels/sheets to place directly on the seats before putting things on the back seats (like I would if I didn't have the folding option). The rear seats (like the fronts) can scruff pretty easily.

2.)The trunk opening is small. There will be times when you'll buy a 13"+ TV or drive/pick someone up at the airport, etc... Well, if the TV box or the luggage can't fit through the trunks opening, what will you do? Then you have to use the back seats. Here we go fishing for towels or sheets again...

3.) I have felt no decrease in rigidity between my '02 325xi w/ folding seats and my friend's '02 325i w/o folding rear seats. He would have gotten the option but he decided to spend the $500 on metallic paint instead.

4.) The folding seats option has a armrest. Although, I barely have passengers in the rear, it's still a nice feature to have for them. Side note: the armrest also serves as a divider if you do place things like jackets or duffel bags on the rear seats so they don't move across the entire rear bench while cornering.

5.) What rattles I do hear come somewhere from the front passenger area (seat belt, glove box) or the area around the moonroof switches not the rear seats.

In summary, you can't go wrong with getting the folding rear seat option especially since it costs only baout $500.