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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:27 AM
2k528i 2k528i is offline
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P1421 and P1423

Hey everyone,

I'm still getting these codes on my 2000 528i. I've been told it's the air pump, do we have a good source for what the codes are for a bmw?

Does anyone know of another reason these two codes could show up?

Thanks as always..
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2008, 01:48 PM
Max_VQ Max_VQ is offline
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Good source for BMW OBD codes: http://www.my330i.com/odb2.php

SAE Code P1421
DTC Code 17829
Description Secondary Air Injector Valve Circuit Short to Ground

SAE Code P1423
BMW-Specific Code 245
Description Secondary Air Injection Bank 1 Flow Too Low

I would guess your injector valve relay is shorting to ground, causing the "Flow to low" error.
Use the attached PDF to understand how it should work and to troubleshoot it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Secondary Air System Failure.pdf (56.1 KB, 3738 views)
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2008, 02:23 PM
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lild lild is offline
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the secondary air pump is more than like shot, and the control valve may need to be repalce. that's what the code are for. the control check valve usually colgs or goes bad and then the air pump follows. i had a write up on how to clean the control valve which work for one guy. but can't seem to find it. but any ways you may be able to save the control valve but mos likely will need a new pump.
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:09 PM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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SOP is to replace both as a defective valve can allow water to flow into the SAP causing pump failure. Since you have a valve error code, it is likely the cause of your pump faliure. Unless you are sure the valve is good, replace it (~$80). Otherwise you may need to replace the pump again (~$280) at a later date.
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2008, 07:48 AM
jaspendlove jaspendlove is offline
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I had the same code on my Z3. Here is a DIY that i wrote up on it. Its not to your car, but maybe give you some insite on what to do.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ighlight=p1423
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2011, 08:49 PM
Punkrawks Punkrawks is offline
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P1423

I'm having the same code on my Z3. Any idea if it's typically a failed part or usually a cracked/loose hose?
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2011, 04:19 AM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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The check valve is normally in the closed position. At cold start up, it receives a vacuum to open it to allow the air injection into the exhaust stream. The check valve fails by getting stuck open or closed due to carbon buildup. If open, it allows hot exhaust to backflow into the air pump. The moisture then condenses into water and kills the pump. If closed, it does not allow air to get injected into the exhaust stream. Either way results in your code.
Do function check. Open your hood and start the car. Your pump should start and run for about 90 seconds on a COLD start and then shut off. It must be dead cold. If you don't hear the pump (can't speak for a Z3 but it is located ahead of the front right wheel in an e39), it is probably dead. While it could be the fuse or the relay, it is usually the pump that dies. If yes, replace both the pump and the valve. If the pump starts up, replace the valve only. Note: the pump is pricey $400+

BTW, a cracked vacuum hose to the valve can preclude proper valve operation. Check this first as this hose cracks easily due to heat exposure due to its location (above the exhaust manifold).

Last edited by Fudman; 07-21-2011 at 04:21 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2011, 02:46 PM
UDME39 UDME39 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
The check valve is normally in the closed position. At cold start up, it receives a vacuum to open it to allow the air injection into the exhaust stream. The check valve fails by getting stuck open or closed due to carbon buildup. If open, it allows hot exhaust to backflow into the air pump. The moisture then condenses into water and kills the pump. If closed, it does not allow air to get injected into the exhaust stream. Either way results in your code.
Do function check. Open your hood and start the car. Your pump should start and run for about 90 seconds on a COLD start and then shut off. It must be dead cold. If you don't hear the pump (can't speak for a Z3 but it is located ahead of the front right wheel in an e39), it is probably dead. While it could be the fuse or the relay, it is usually the pump that dies. If yes, replace both the pump and the valve. If the pump starts up, replace the valve only. Note: the pump is pricey $400+

BTW, a cracked vacuum hose to the valve can preclude proper valve operation. Check this first as this hose cracks easily due to heat exposure due to its location (above the exhaust manifold).
I just started getting this code. So the whining noise coming from the pump is good thing meaning i just have to replace the valve?
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2011, 04:19 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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The large valve on the left side of the engine that Fudman writes about is opened by a vacuum. The vacuum is controlled by an electrically operated valve that is located between the engine and the firewall.

I'd trace the vacuum line from the SAP back to this valve and assure that the wiring is intact. You could disconnect the vacuum line from the SAP valve and check for a vacuum on cold startup. If you get a vacuum, the electrically operated valve and vacuum lines are good. Then you'll know that the SAP valve is stuck closed or the pump has failed.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2011, 04:57 PM
UDME39 UDME39 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
The large valve on the left side of the engine that Fudman writes about is opened by a vacuum. The vacuum is controlled by an electrically operated valve that is located between the engine and the firewall.

I'd trace the vacuum line from the SAP back to this valve and assure that the wiring is intact. You could disconnect the vacuum line from the SAP valve and check for a vacuum on cold startup. If you get a vacuum, the electrically operated valve and vacuum lines are good. Then you'll know that the SAP valve is stuck closed or the pump has failed.
I think I found the problem. My hose from the valve to the pump is cracked. I need to find the number for this hose to order it. That would explain the unsteady idle on a cold start.
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2011, 05:08 PM
UDME39 UDME39 is offline
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Found it 11 72 1435 456
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2011, 05:42 PM
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This vacuum hose is kind of expensive from the dealer, ~$14 for 3 feet. Recommend finding an alternative material like silicon based, if possible, to better withstand the high heat. Bluebee uses some windshield washer hose but that is probably less durable than the rubber hose (it's definitely a lot cheaper at $3 for 3 ft). If you get the dealer vacuum tube, you'll have a lifetime supply!
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2011, 06:19 PM
UDME39 UDME39 is offline
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Yeah that would be awesome. I actually will probably just buy the oem hose from bap geon here which is $24. I'll ask them if they have the tubing. They carry a lot of oem bmw parts. That's also where I bought my entire ccv kit from. Next I will have to tackle my triflecta issue. Lots of great write ups on that. Just very time consuming.
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  #14  
Old 11-02-2011, 07:51 AM
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$24 for a vacuum hose? You've got to be joking.

$24? just for that white stripe running the length of the hose?
Autozone sets me up w/ simple black vacuum hose for less than $5.
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  #15  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:02 AM
UDME39 UDME39 is offline
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I don't know. I'm referring the the air pump hose that goes from the pump to the valve but I don't know of a cheaper one not even on ebay.
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  #16  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:55 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHoang View Post
$24 for a vacuum hose? You've got to be joking.
Recently, in another thread, I calculated the Realoem 'nominal' price to replace the vacuum tubing to be over $300 in parts alone (and, at San Jose BMW dealer prices, you can easily double that estimate).

Yet, Steve found a source for Viton tubing which gets you three feet of the better stuff in the low twenty-dollar range for the 1/8" ID tubing - he's testing it as we speak - to determine the actual length required.


All this, and more, are in these threads (somewhat confusingly because Realoem is confusing to start with in that MANY diagrams are wrong):

- How to locate all problematic vacuum tubing (technically, since it's a single component, it is not called 'hose') & vacuum endcaps in the E39 engine bay (1) & where to get new vacuum tubing & endcaps (1) & what SAE sizes to get for all the M54 engine vacuum tubing (1) & correcting the F-connector errors in the realoem diagrams (1) & finding the ends of hard-to-locate vacuum tubes (1) & sorely needed clarification on how the M54 CCV vacuum port works on the E39 M52 CCV valve connection to the fuel pressure regulator connection (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHoang View Post
Autozone sets me up w/ simple black vacuum hose for less than $5.
I think it's a BAD IDEA to go to Autozone to size-match your vacuum tubing.



Of course, if you already know the size, it's less of a bad idea (because you don't have to remove the hose beforehand, potentially destroying it ... and then ... being stuck when Autozone doesn't have it in stock).

Don't laugh. That's exactly what happened to me just last week!

I went to two different Autozones and neither had the right size in stock. I ended up at O'Reilly (aka Kragen) for the wrong size and just OK material (yet, for about five bucks, as you mentioned).


Quote:
Originally Posted by UDME39 View Post
I'm referring the the air pump hose that goes from the pump to the valve but I don't know of a cheaper one not even on ebay.
We have it all covered.


Please add value to the threads above.

Just click ... and respond.

Here, for example is the working draft of our vacuum tubing recommendations:
Quote:
  • $7 ===> Norprene,61A (soft), -75F to +275F, PN: 51075K22, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $0.72/ft (minimum length = 10 feet)
  • $21 ==> Viton, Shore 60A (soft), -15F to +400F, PN: 5119K41, 1/8" ID, 1/16" thick, $4.19/ft, available length >= 3' = 5 feet)
  • $22 ==> Gum rubber, 45A (very soft), -70F to +180F, PN: 5543K41, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $2.21/ft (minimum length = 10 feet)
  • $55 ===> Viton, Shore 60A (soft), -15F to +400F, PN: 5119K48, barbed fittings, 1/8" ID, 1/8" thick, $11/ft, available length >= 3' = 5 feet)
  • $?? ===> Silicone, ?
PS: Don't forget there are reputedly up to four vacuum endcaps on the E39.

These endcaps can easily leak:

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  #17  
Old 11-02-2011, 11:39 AM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDME39 View Post
Yeah that would be awesome. I actually will probably just buy the oem hose from bap geon here which is $24. I'll ask them if they have the tubing. They carry a lot of oem bmw parts. That's also where I bought my entire ccv kit from. Next I will have to tackle my triflecta issue. Lots of great write ups on that. Just very time consuming.
I assume this is the hose you replaced. Seems like $24 would be a good price for that.
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  #18  
Old 11-02-2011, 11:55 AM
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540indiana 540indiana is offline
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  #19  
Old 11-02-2011, 01:39 PM
UDME39 UDME39 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve530 View Post
I assume this is the hose you replaced. Seems like $24 would be a good price for that.
Yes. That is the one I replaced. I also need the new 1/8" ones which I will try your recommendation.
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  #20  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDME39 View Post
Yes. That is the one I replaced. I also need the new 1/8" ones which I will try your recommendation.
Note: In the discussion below, we're using the convention of:
Tubing = single material
Hoses = multiple material

The three feet of 1/8 tubing seems relatively easy to replace using the Viton tubing listed above.

Not only is the Viton material assumed better than OEM materials, but, it's vastly less expensive than anything from the dealer.

As for the ? feet of hoses on the air pump and sucking jet pump, we haven't explored alternative sources yet, nor lengths needed.

If anyone has ideas for alternative sources for these larger multi-material hoses, please let us know!
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2011, 02:34 PM
Steve530 Steve530 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Note: ....As for the ? feet of hoses on the air pump and sucking jet pump, we haven't explored alternative sources yet, nor lengths needed.

If anyone has ideas for alternative sources for these larger multi-material hoses, please let us know!
The SAP to SAP Valve hose has the quick connectors like the hoses that connect to the CCV. That design may limit the availability to sources with access to OEM parts.

The hoses going to the suction jet pump seem to be more standard, but are uniquely formed to fit the locations, so they may also be OEM only.
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