No start after charging battery

Hopefully this is something simple. I wasn't thinking and charged my battery like an idiot beginner by leaving the battery connected. I checked my fuses, got a clicking noise from starter relay. Haven't tried jumpin it from starter. Did I blow a fusable link or is there another fuse I don't know about. I checked those 6 fuses on top of that relay in the engine compartment.

When I go to crank the engine it won't turn over, the lights are bright and don't dim when in cranking position.

Can someone steer me in the right direction on what to do to get my car running do I can go to work

Still sounds like the battery. There is a difference between a discharged battery and a dead (failed) one. Try jumping it and see if it starts. If it does, go out and purchase a new battery. This advice is probably too late to get you to work. But just as well because if it is a failed battery, you would only have the same problem when you tried to get home.

There`s about a 99% likelyhood that your battery is toast. I`ve seen plenty of batteries ("just charged") that will meter 12+ volts across the terminals, but don`t have enough cranking amps available to spin the engine over. Old batteries lose their ability to take and hold a substantial charge....replace it with one that you *know for sure* is up to the job.

Z, this just happened to me on Monday. I left my turn signal on all day and the result was a lot of unnecessary agony. I tried jumping it right from the battery and letting it charge off another battery for a very long time. Then I had it charged at the auto store for 8 hours the next day, meter read 892 CCA, good, but still no start. I proceeded to try another battery with no success. Like you, my head lights were fully on with no dimming, thus proving the battery had enough juice. However, I did note there was the word CODE on the dash, everything I looked at and in calling the dealership, there was no CODE needed. I had it towed to my house because I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I talked to a buddy who mentioned poping the clutch to bypass the electrical system. I did it and it started right up. I let it run for 10 mins. I shut it off, and tried it again and the word CODE appeared again. I popped the clutch again and let it run for 20 mins and the CODE disappeared. Hopefully,, you have a 5 or 6 speed where you can do what I did. It worked!!

I've charged the battery MANY times from the engine compartment, from the battery itself, and off the car. All three ways. All work fine (although for reasons of gassing & explosions, the Bentleys recommend charging off the car).

Anyway, in the VERY best of E39 Links, you'll see how to test the battery:
- DIY how to test a BMW E39 battery & alternator

Starter?

Sent from my T-Mobile G1 using Bimmer App

I hope I'm responding in the correct place here I'm just using my phone for all this. By not disconnecting the battery when I charged it, is there a fusible link or relay that I could have fried that would allow everything else to work except starting the car. Also , would I hear the starter relay click if I fried the neutral safety switch. The battery went dead enough to where everything had been reset ie... Trip comp, click etc.... This wouldn't mean that I need to reprogram for my key or something weird as if I replaced the dme?

Still think you have a bad battery. 95% of the time batteries are charged while in the car. Haven't you seen them charge the batteries of cars on the showroom floor to keep the accessories running so customers can play with them. Every BMW dealer I've been to always have a few charging and the new cars are MUCH more complicated than yours.

Originally Posted by jason540ny

Z, this just happened to me on Monday. I left my turn signal on all day and the result was a lot of unnecessary agony. I tried jumping it right from the battery and letting it charge off another battery for a very long time. Then I had it charged at the auto store for 8 hours the next day, meter read 892 CCA, good, but still no start. I proceeded to try another battery with no success. Like you, my head lights were fully on with no dimming, thus proving the battery had enough juice. However, I did note there was the word CODE on the dash, everything I looked at and in calling the dealership, there was no CODE needed. I had it towed to my house because I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I talked to a buddy who mentioned poping the clutch to bypass the electrical system. I did it and it started right up. I let it run for 10 mins. I shut it off, and tried it again and the word CODE appeared again. I popped the clutch again and let it run for 20 mins and the CODE disappeared. Hopefully,, you have a 5 or 6 speed where you can do what I did. It worked!!

Since mine is automatic I can't do that however I'm going to jump the starter in run position and hopefully it starts. But that would mean there is still something wrong between the ignition and the starter

Originally Posted by first540i

Starter?

Sent from my T-Mobile G1 using Bimmer App

No click or sound from starter .

Originally Posted by KeithS

Still think you have a bad battery. 95% of the time batteries are charged while in the car. Haven't you seen them charge the batteries of cars on the showroom floor to keep the accessories running so customers can play with them. Every BMW dealer I've been to always have a few charging and the new cars are MUCH more complicated than yours.

Load tested with a vat 40 to to advised specs for battery and did not drop below 9.6 volts.

Your original post said there was clicking from the starter relay, Now your saying there is no click? That is different symptom that originally described. Why were you charging the battey in the first place?

My opinion is that something else is wrong, not the battery. The lights would dim and go out if it was that dead. I have killed mine totally dead once or twice and I charge in the trunk, not from in front. If the battery is REALLY dead, it will not present a load to the charger. If you are so unlucky (dumb?) as to flip the charger to FAST CHARGE or START when there is no load on the charger, you will over voltage the cars electrical system... that is bad! That is why they say to unhook the batt from the car to be safe when charging a DEAD battery.
It is possible you have upset the security system maybe but I'm not familiar with the 540... keep checking the electrical system Dennis says!

Originally Posted by DrewCrewOf2

My opinion is that something else is wrong, not the battery. The lights would dim and go out if it was that dead. I have killed mine totally dead once or twice and I charge in the trunk, not from in front. If the battery is REALLY dead, it will not present a load to the charger. If you are so unlucky (dumb?) as to flip the charger to FAST CHARGE or START when there is no load on the charger, you will over voltage the cars electrical system... that is bad! That is why they say to unhook the batt from the car to be safe when charging a DEAD battery.
It is possible you have upset the security system maybe but I'm not familiar with the 540... keep checking the electrical system Dennis says!

Now someones definately on the same page as me. The battery was dead however the most my charger would charge is 10 amps I wouldn't have thought that was enough amps to fry anything in the circuit. What's your thought? I'm frustrated as hell because I have no wiring diagram to see exactly what's between the ignition and the starter motor. Could have I burned up the neutral safety switch or is there a fuse that perhaps would have blown first.

My original repair on the car was an expansion tank. Are there any electrical componants in the front if the engine that would cause a no "crank" situation?

Originally Posted by DrewCrewOf2

My opinion is that something else is wrong, not the battery. The lights would dim and go out if it was that dead. I have killed mine totally dead once or twice and I charge in the trunk, not from in front. If the battery is REALLY dead, it will not present a load to the charger. If you are so unlucky (dumb?) as to flip the charger to FAST CHARGE or START when there is no load on the charger, you will over voltage the cars electrical system... that is bad! That is why they say to unhook the batt from the car to be safe when charging a DEAD battery.
It is possible you have upset the security system maybe but I'm not familiar with the 540... keep checking the electrical system Dennis says!

Now someones definately on the same page as me. The battery was dead however the most my charger would charge is 10 amps I wouldn't have thought that was enough amps to fry anything in the circuit. What's your thought? I'm frustrated as hell because I have no wiring diagram to see exactly what's between the ignition and the starter motor. Could have I burned up the neutral safety switch or is there a fuse that perhaps would have blown first.

My original repair on the car was an expansion tank. Are there any electrical componants in the front if the engine that would cause a no "crank" situation?

Originally Posted by KeithS

Your original post said there was clicking from the starter relay, Now your saying there is no click? That is different symptom that originally described. Why were you charging the battey in the first place?

There is a click coming from starter relay but no action at all at starter

OK, now with better information we can take better guesses. So it sounds as the issue may have nothing to do with charging the battery or the battery itself, but due to work on the car for changing the expansion tank.

The click that you hear, is it a relay in the cabin of the car, or the loud clank from the solenoid on the starter in the engine compartment? There are certainly the connections to the starter solenoid that wouild prevent it from working if that is not what is making the click that you hear.

Let me dig out the wiring diagrams in a bit. I get up early (5 AM) but my brain stays asleep a hour or so longer. Need my gallon or so of coffee. BTW, since I'm gonna drink 5-6 cups of coffee here in a minute, why doesn't my skin turn brown? Always wondered about that...

Originally Posted by Z1spynltap

There is a click coming from starter relay but no action at all at starter

Attached is the starter wiring diagram that you asked for in a prior post. Also some details of the charging circuit.

I assume the "click coming from starter relay" is the solenoid on the starter. Everything below assumes the click is the starter solenoid.

If so the ignition switch (including the neutral safety switch) and EWS are working and trying to run the starter. Your original post described that attempting the start did not dim the lights. This suggests that starter current or anything close to it is not being drawn. The most likely candidate is a faulty starter. It could though be a bad connection with high resistance preventing the full ~200 amp starter current.

There is a safety disconnect link on the battery +ve lead which is triggered by the airbag system on a collision. It permanently cuts the connection on the high current cable from battery to starter & alternator. This component is not shown on the diagrams attached. If it has been triggered it would disable the alternator from charging the battery. It does not disconnect the battery from the fused circuits in the car.

If you're confident enough, connect a voltmeter to the starter's heavy current lead on the solenoid. Access is awkward & you don't want to risk a short to ground.
If you have battery voltage, the safety link is OK.
Check voltage while trying to start.
If no change, the starter solenoid or motor is defective.
If there is a voltage drop either:
1 the starter motor is defective, but solenoid portion is probably OK
or
2 there is excessive resistance in the battery to starter circuit, in engine to chassis ground strap or in battery to chassis ground strap.

If the high current cable from battery to starter (and alternator) has high resistance it would also prevent the alternator fully charging the battery even though the alternator is OK. Your battery would run down to discharged over time.

EDIT: Oops, it's possible that my statement " If you have battery voltage, the safety link is OK." is wrong.
It could be that a failed diode in the voltage regulator would be able to pass voltage to the alternator's battery terminal and on to the starter solenoid terminal. I'll search to see if I can find a circuit diagram to verify.

EDIT 2: Found a circuit diagram. Do this check with key off or out of ignition switch. Test as described then will work.

Regards
RDL

RDL, Purrr-fect! I got the books out and was overwhelmed by hundreds of pages of wire links! You saved me hours!

Originally Posted by Z1spynltap

the most my charger would charge is 10 amps

Bentleys suggest no more than 6 amps ... but for different reasons than you're worried about.
The limit you're worried about is 16.5 volts (apparently).
Did you read the thread?

Originally Posted by rdl

Attached is the starter wiring diagram ... Also some details of the charging circuit.

Hi RDL,

Nice. Very nice.

Since I'm always trying to predict questions beforehand and collect the best answers, I'll take the liberty of adding this to the aforementioned battery and alternator testing circuit.

You can rest assured someone, soon, and many thereafter, will ask the same questions - so it will be nice to refer them to your diagrams in the process of answering the first step of their question (in essence, doing the research, for them, ahead of time ... so that they start with what everyone else already knows).

Thanks!
Bluebee

Originally Posted by bluebee

Bentleys suggest no more than 6 amps ... but for different reasons than you're worried about.
The limit you're worried about is 16.5 volts (apparently).
Did you read the thread?

Bentley is simplifying greatly. It really depends on the charger type, in other words how smart it is.
Best battery chargers use a 3 (sometimes 4) stage program, usually termed "intelligent"
1 constant current to a maximum of 25% of the 20 hour A-hr rating to about 80% charge
2 constant voltage at ~14.5 to ~16 V, but depends on battery type, to 100% charge
3 constant voltage at ~13.2 V, maintenance or float charge which can be left on indefinitely. Current will be ~50 mA.

E39 batteries are about 100 A-hr so a 25 A current in stage 1 would be OK
Older design chargers would charge at constant current. Even a 2A trickle charge will damage a battery if left on once the battery is fully charged.

This link has an excellent description of battery info. including charging
http://www.batteryfaq.org/
click on the
Car and Deep Cycle Battery Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) 2011
then
9. HOW DO I CHARGE (OR EQUALIZE) MY BATTERY?
links

Regards
RDL

Originally Posted by bluebee

Hi RDL,

... stuff deleted

Since I'm always trying to predict questions beforehand and collect the best answers, I'll take the liberty of adding this to the aforementioned battery and alternator testing circuit.

... stuff deleted

Thanks!
Bluebee

Be my guest. I'm flattered.

Regards
RDL

Originally Posted by rdl

Attached is the starter wiring diagram that you asked for in a prior post. Also some details of the charging circuit.

I assume the "click coming from starter relay" is the solenoid on the starter. Everything below assumes the click is the starter solenoid.

If so the ignition switch (including the neutral safety switch) and EWS are working and trying to run the starter. Your original post described that attempting the start did not dim the lights. This suggests that starter current or anything close to it is not being drawn. The most likely candidate is a faulty starter. It could though be a bad connection with high resistance preventing the full ~200 amp starter current.

There is a safety disconnect link on the battery +ve lead which is triggered by the airbag system on a collision. It permanently cuts the connection on the high current cable from battery to starter & alternator. This component is not shown on the diagrams attached. If it has been triggered it would disable the alternator from charging the battery. It does not disconnect the battery from the fused circuits in the car.

If you're confident enough, connect a voltmeter to the starter's heavy current lead on the solenoid. Access is awkward & you don't want to risk a short to ground.
If you have battery voltage, the safety link is OK.
Check voltage while trying to start.
If no change, the starter solenoid or motor is defective.
If there is a voltage drop either:
1 the starter motor is defective, but solenoid portion is probably OK
or
2 there is excessive resistance in the battery to starter circuit, in engine to chassis ground strap or in battery to chassis ground strap.

If the high current cable from battery to starter (and alternator) has high resistance it would also prevent the alternator fully charging the battery even though the alternator is OK. Your battery would run down to discharged over time.

EDIT: Oops, it's possible that my statement " If you have battery voltage, the safety link is OK." is wrong.
It could be that a failed diode in the voltage regulator would be able to pass voltage to the alternator's battery terminal and on to the starter solenoid terminal. I'll search to see if I can find a circuit diagram to verify.

EDIT 2: Found a circuit diagram. Do this check with key off or out of ignition switch. Test as described then will work.

Regards
RDL

I'm not at my car right this minute but I'm curious to know that if that + lead was triggered, the one that disconnects if in an accident, would that also cause a no spark situation say for example if one were to by-pass that whole circuit and jump the starter manually as if it was a stick shift and i was bump starting it