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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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View Poll Results: Which one is more classy and better?
Jet Black 44 32.35%
Black Sapphire Metallic 92 67.65%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 01-14-2009, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champdude View Post
Nice video on jet black
Just beautiful!
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Last edited by deznium; 01-14-2009 at 09:37 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2009, 09:40 PM
ak907 ak907 is offline
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I work around both blacks every day, and up close, I just think that the sapphire is very beautiful. I prefer it, hands down. Either way, when clean black is the best color!
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2009, 09:40 PM
SJK SJK is offline
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Originally Posted by champdude View Post
But I guess those swirls are still noticeable on black sapphire right? I mean if I look at black and sapphire black, I think I should be able to tell if they have swirls on them under the same light settings and distance from the car. One might have it less noticeable but it is still noticeable right??? So how does it really help?? Either get a color that completely masks out the swirls or...... I'm just trying to argue against people who say swirls are less noticeable on black sapphire... well if they're noticeable but less, then what's the point really... ????
If you really don't want to see swirl marks, get flat white. Yes you can see marks on the Sapphire if you look closely enough, but you have to look for them. They really pop out on jet black.

Get what you like best, but I think the Sapphire is less maintenance intensive. I freely admit that the jet black looks better when polished, but I'm not willing to put that much effort into it week in and week out.
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2009, 10:25 PM
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I don't completely agree that swirls are not that easy to see on black sapphire. I can see them very easily, almost as easy as I would see it on my jet black. I can also see swirls easily on blue and grey BMW cars under direct sunlight. It's just a matter of taste, i.e. if you want a true black car or a carbonish-color black car. The swirl talk is just BS. I owned a metallic carbon color TSX and swirls were very easy to see and this was a lighter color. In the end, if you want a black car, go with jet black, if you want a car that's pretty dark but not THAT deep dark and has a carbon black color up close, go with sapphire black.

Search google to get more information:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ic&btnG=Search
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Last edited by deznium; 01-14-2009 at 10:29 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2009, 06:37 AM
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Jet Black for me:


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  #31  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:05 AM
acooke98 acooke98 is offline
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I have Saphire on my Z4 and Jet Black on the incoming 335i coupe. I like both, but the saphire occasionally looks purple depending on the sun and how clean the car is, decided I would just go with the straight black on the 335.
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  #32  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:34 AM
alejotrujillo alejotrujillo is offline
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It seems the OP is not going to get the answer that he needs since the poll is 50% for JB and 50% for BS
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  #33  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:55 AM
champdude champdude is offline
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Originally Posted by alejotrujillo View Post
It seems the OP is not going to get the answer that he needs since the poll is 50% for JB and 50% for BS
I guess I went from space grey to jet black and now to jet black vs. sapphire....this poll is helping me a lot! I'm not sure though but have to make up my mind reallyyy soon.
Thanks again
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2009, 02:52 AM
champdude champdude is offline
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People say that jet black paint is softer than black sapphire metallic? is this true or just rumors? from what i understand, the metallic black has metal flakes and black is flat black.... why would they make one paint softer as compared to the other? does anyone have any evidence about this online? like some links, official info etc
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:20 AM
bimmeryota bimmeryota is offline
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Obviously partial to the black sapphire... So gratifying looking at it in the sun after it's just been cleaned. I never thought I'd own a black car but now I think I'll always get black! Of course living in SoCal makes it a little easier to keep clean. I think the only other color I'd get would be Alpine White in a coupe...other than that black sedans FTW!!!
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2009, 11:13 AM
RTG0507 RTG0507 is offline
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Originally Posted by champdude View Post
People say that jet black paint is softer than black sapphire metallic? is this true or just rumors? from what i understand, the metallic black has metal flakes and black is flat black.... why would they make one paint softer as compared to the other? does anyone have any evidence about this online? like some links, official info etc
Check out the Detail Department forum and search for soft paint. There are many opinions on soft paint from professional detailers.
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by champdude View Post
People say that jet black paint is softer than black sapphire metallic? is this true or just rumors? from what i understand, the metallic black has metal flakes and black is flat black.... why would they make one paint softer as compared to the other? does anyone have any evidence about this online? like some links, official info etc
I think both metallic and non-metallic paints are soft. I believe those are just rumors when they metallic is more harder than non metallic. Black feels softer because you can see almost any mark, smudge, swirl etc. on it but that doesn't make it any softer than the metallic paint. My understanding is that metallic has flakes and non-metallic does not but clear coating is same. Can anyone else comment on this?
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2009, 01:52 PM
kenomail kenomail is offline
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Given that you just washed both colors you will see more depth to Black Sapphire and this perceived depth is what eliminates seeing surface swirls if any versus flat black. Also, Black Sapphire essentially is thicker because the metallic is another step in the paint process versus flat black (I went to the factory tour in Munich and he mentioned this and we saw it in the production line) so it may not chip as easily. I would say if you run the car in the winter then BS otherwise Jet Black will hold up.
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2009, 02:09 PM
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Depth means deepness in color which I believe you can only find it in true black color and not a color with sparkles. Of course this is when it is clean.

It doesn't matter if your car is jet black or sapphire black (metallic), you will still see swirls if you get a bad car wash. This whole talk about swirls less visible on sapphire black is just ...... doesn't make sense that much. The difference between these two colors is minimal when it comes to maintainability. Black sapphire is not true black but a greyish-black. That's how I look at it. If you want a black car, go with jet black and if you want a greyish-black car go with sapphire black. Again, they'll both show swirls if washed incorrectly. Also I still tend to believe that they have the same layers of clear coats, although the sapphire black will have a layer of flake coats and the layer of clear coats in sapphire black will anyway be above the flake coats. At least that's what I can make of.

A picture can speak a thousand words. It's a black sapphire metallic Bimmer with swirls.
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Last edited by deznium; 01-16-2009 at 02:17 PM.
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2009, 02:37 PM
SJK SJK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deznium View Post
It doesn't matter if your car is jet black or sapphire black (metallic), you will still see swirls if you get a bad car wash. This whole talk about swirls less visible on sapphire black is just ...... doesn't make sense that much.
Check out the picture. It's a black sapphire metallic Bimmer with swirls.
I have to respectfully disagree. I park next to a jet black 740 at work. When both vehicles are clean there is definitely a difference under the lights in the parking garage. The other owner even made the comment to me that he wished he had gotten the Sapphire because it hides imperfections better.

The explanation is simple. There is nothing in the jet black to diffuse the light. It's like a polished mirror. Any micro-scratch is going to refract the light differently from the polished surface and be easily visible. The metal flakes are already refracting light in different directions. The refraction from a micro-scratch tends to blend into this. They are still visible because they are uniform and not random. However, they aren't as visible and you have to look closer.

Obviously, the deeper and denser the scratches, the more visible they become. No color can completely hide swirl marks, but they are less visible on some colors than others, and are generally less visible on metailc paints than on non-metalic.
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  #41  
Old 01-16-2009, 03:14 PM
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deznium deznium is offline
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I have to respectfully disagree. I park next to a jet black 740 at work. When both vehicles are clean there is definitely a difference under the lights in the parking garage. The other owner even made the comment to me that he wished he had gotten the Sapphire because it hides imperfections better.

The explanation is simple. There is nothing in the jet black to diffuse the light. It's like a polished mirror. Any micro-scratch is going to refract the light differently from the polished surface and be easily visible. The metal flakes are already refracting light in different directions. The refraction from a micro-scratch tends to blend into this. They are still visible because they are uniform and not random. However, they aren't as visible and you have to look closer.

Obviously, the deeper and denser the scratches, the more visible they become. No color can completely hide swirl marks, but they are less visible on some colors than others, and are generally less visible on metailc paints than on non-metalic.
The grass is always greener on the other side. A jet black owner will generally say that he should have bought a black sapphire. A black sapphire owner will say he should have bought a white or silver car and so on...I have to respectfully say that I just posted a picture that proves that you can see swirl marks on black sapphire. Light will refract but swirls are deeper and have a circular pattern (not random like you said) and eventually under direct sunlight you should be able to notice those patterns once they've gone deeper into the clear coat on both the colors. Well, lighter swirls will definitely be more visible on jet black but after some point you will notice 90% of the swirl pattern on jet black and probably 80% of the swirl pattern on black sapphire. Why would BMW make two types of paints on the same color? You probably wash your car by yourself and hence hardly have swirls or your car wash is very good. The metallic paint is more greyish black and the black is just black under sun light. I believe if you maintain your car properly then you should not have a problem with swirls irrespective of metallic/non-metallic paints.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:20 PM
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Here's another one of those sapphire black metallics with swirls.
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:23 PM
champdude champdude is offline
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does anyone know here if one black sapphire metallic actually has stronger coating than jet black? i mean official proof rather than what they have heard from others.
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  #44  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:23 PM
champdude champdude is offline
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i guess the jet black guys are busy showing off their cars on the streets and have no time to vote
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2009, 07:55 PM
SJK SJK is offline
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The clear coat is the same on both, which is where the swirl marks exist. I think the impression of the jet black being softer is due to the issues I described above. Very light swirl marks are more visible on the jet black than they are on the Sapphire. I could be wrong, but that makes sense to me.

Seriously, I get the sense that you really want the jet black. If that is true then go ahead and get it. If you are that passionate then you are probably willing to put in the effort to keep it looking great.
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  #46  
Old 01-17-2009, 12:55 PM
kenomail kenomail is offline
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Originally Posted by deznium View Post
Depth means deepness in color which I believe you can only find it in true black color and not a color with sparkles. Of course this is when it is clean.

It doesn't matter if your car is jet black or sapphire black (metallic), you will still see swirls if you get a bad car wash. This whole talk about swirls less visible on sapphire black is just ...... doesn't make sense that much. The difference between these two colors is minimal when it comes to maintainability. Black sapphire is not true black but a greyish-black. That's how I look at it. If you want a black car, go with jet black and if you want a greyish-black car go with sapphire black. Again, they'll both show swirls if washed incorrectly. Also I still tend to believe that they have the same layers of clear coats, although the sapphire black will have a layer of flake coats and the layer of clear coats in sapphire black will anyway be above the flake coats. At least that's what I can make of.

A picture can speak a thousand words. It's a black sapphire metallic Bimmer with swirls.
I disagree. Try using Zymol or some other high end wax on both and see for yourself - I have. My depth comment is that there is a perceived depth to the look of the paint because the way the metallic reflects light. Since the flat black has no optical effect like this you tend to see the surface swirls. I have had both flat and metallic and unless you are a complete nut about detailing, always hand wash your car, and live in a warm climate the jet black will look great but is high maintenance.

As far as the actual thickness of the paint - the primer, then the flat black, then the metallic is sprayed, then the clear so of course it will be thicker.
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Last edited by kenomail; 01-17-2009 at 12:58 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-17-2009, 01:14 PM
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I disagree. Try using Zymol or some other high end wax on both and see for yourself - I have. My depth comment is that there is a perceived depth to the look of the paint because the way the metallic reflects light. Since the flat black has no optical effect like this you tend to see the surface swirls. I have had both flat and metallic and unless you are a complete nut about detailing, always hand wash your car, and live in a warm climate the jet black will look great but is high maintenance.

As far as the actual thickness of the paint - the primer, then the flat black, then the metallic is sprayed, then the clear so of course it will be thicker.
It is thicker but the layers of coats are probably the same. Well, I personally chose the jet black over metallic. I wanted my car to look dark black and not some other form of the color. Everyone has their own preferences. It is my personal opinion that if I was willing to spend the exra $500, I would have rather spent it on the ilogic sound system or comfort access rather that on paint - since both jet black and sapphire black are almost the same. If I wanted to get space grey then I wouldn't mind chipping in those $500 because that's a completely different color from black. But that's a personal preference.
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  #48  
Old 01-17-2009, 01:20 PM
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Since the flat black has no optical effect like this you tend to see the surface swirls.


With all due respect, I have posted two pics of black sapphire metallic cars with surface swirls easily visible on the color. You can see it for yourself and like you said if you hand wash your car you probably won't get swirls on both black and sapphire black. The only swirls that the metallic will hide is very light ones but those are also not that easily noticeable on jet black unless under a halogen lamp or DIRECTLY under sunlight.
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  #49  
Old 01-17-2009, 01:28 PM
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Jet black. The economy sucks. Save the 500 bucks
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:34 PM
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There is no charge for Black Sapphire thats why I got it on my car, so price is not an issue, just preference and taste for the OP.
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