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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:28 PM
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w5lx w5lx is offline
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To Sleep Or Not To Sleep??

I have seen occasional references to "sleep mode" in posts discussing battery issues. What exactly is "sleep mode?" And does the car have to be locked to go into sleep mode? I have searched both of my Owner's Manuals for a 2007 328i and a 2008 528i and there is no reference to a "sleep mode." So can someone clearly define it, and how do you put your car to "sleep"?
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:11 PM
MSAMMY MSAMMY is offline
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Originally Posted by w5lx View Post
I have seen occasional references to "sleep mode" in posts discussing battery issues. What exactly is "sleep mode?" And does the car have to be locked to go into sleep mode? I have searched both of my Owner's Manuals for a 2007 328i and a 2008 528i and there is no reference to a "sleep mode." So can someone clearly define it, and how do you put your car to "sleep"?
OK, I’ve done quite a bit of troubleshooting of various electrical problems with our 2002 X5 – I’m no expert, but here’s an explanation in a nutshell. “Sleep Mode” is a state of rest of your BMW’s electronics when there is less than 38-50mA draw at “rest”, usually after about 16 minutes. You do not need to lock the car for it to enter “Sleep Mode” and there is nothing that you have to do – it usually happens about 16 minutes after you shut the engine off and leave the vehicle with radio off, etc. I’ve attached a photo of my Fluke multi-meter showing a draw of 27mA while my X5 was “sleeping”. A good indicator of whether a 5er is going into sleep for 2007 MY and earlier, is to observe the orange LED on the shifter console. It will go off (or dark) after 16 minutes after you turn the car off and exit the vehicle. I’m not sure if 2008 MY and up has an orange indicator or not – just check during the evening to see.

Now that I’ve described sleep mode, keep in mind there are a few factors that can prevent your car from entering “sleep mode” – specifically, anything that can cause your 5er to ever exceed 38-50mA draw at rest. Things like aftermarket car starters, and devices that are hard-wired incorrectly into circuits that do not shut off with the ignition “key” and/or start/stop button. These items can certainly cause a greater than 50mA draw and your 5er will never enter sleep mode - your battery performance will suffer greatly – in other words, your battery will be toast within a month or so. So, keep this in mind when installing aftermarket electronics yourself or “professionally”. Anyway, I hope this helps in explaining “sleep mode” and I can provide specifics in how to connect a (high-end) multi-meter to test for total system draw during “sleep” if you’d like.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2009, 06:22 AM
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MSAMMY,
Great explanation......thank you. I wonder why BMW doesn't explain that in their manuals. I suspect it's a good idea to keep the key fob far away from the car when the car is in the garage to prevent the car from "responding or interrogating" the fob like it would if the fob was close to the car, thereby causing current drain?
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2009, 08:58 AM
That Guy That Guy is offline
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Our 2008 535xi has given us 5-6 low battery errors (having to reset the clock, 4X4 disabled) over the past 10 months. My wife makes more small distance trips than I. These have all happened after the car has simply sat in the garage, unlocked, but without a key fob or cell phone in the car. In our experience, once the low battery issue arises, if we lock the car overnight the problem is solved and the battery is healthy again.

I agree with the above post and my interpretation of the manual is consistent with MSAMMY. However, our experience with the car has proven otherwise.

I should note that we do leave an iPod connected to the factory iPod/Aux input at all times. As this is a factory option I would figure this item would “time out” at 16 minutes like the rest of the car and no longer draw current (sleep). This may be a poor assumption.
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2009, 11:53 AM
jesimmons jesimmons is offline
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I have a thread going related to this issue:
Electrical Wierdness

While my battery never drained to the critical level that the car wouldn't start, it was exhibiting strange symptoms - date/time needing to be reset, avg mpg readings lost, radio dropping out when the engine was starting - all symptoms of a weak battery.

I had to put the car on a battery tender overnight to bring the battery back to full charge. After that the symptoms disappeared.

It is possible my car was not going into full sleep mode, but I can't be sure. I always keep a USB stick plugged into the USB port and I just noticed that the little green LED on the USB stick that indicates read/write activity was flickering on/off even when the car was parked, idle, and the ignition key NOT inserted. Clearly the USB device was active when the car was not. THis was quite a surprise to me. This is also NOT discussed in the manual. I have since removed the USB stick when the car is not being driven.

I think the fact that I had not started the car in a few weeks also contributed to the partial draining of the battery.
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2009, 08:54 PM
MSAMMY MSAMMY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w5lx View Post
MSAMMY,
...I suspect it's a good idea to keep the key fob far away from the car when the car is in the garage to prevent the car from "responding or interrogating" the fob like it would if the fob was close to the car, thereby causing current drain?...
Yes Sir, if you have comfort access, it's a good idea to keep the fob away from the vehicle to ensure it enters sleep mode. Comfort access uses Bluetooth technology and the standard for Bluetooth is roughly 35 feet, therefore, it's a good practice to keep the comfort access key fob as far away as possible, to ensure it's not "awaking" your car constantly. My car is garaged right now and uses the trickle charger sparingly, sometimes not for 3+ weeks - my car always starts no problem!
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  #7  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:05 AM
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djfitter djfitter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesimmons View Post
I have a thread going related to this issue:
Electrical Wierdness

While my battery never drained to the critical level that the car wouldn't start, it was exhibiting strange symptoms - date/time needing to be reset, avg mpg readings lost, radio dropping out when the engine was starting - all symptoms of a weak battery.

I had to put the car on a battery tender overnight to bring the battery back to full charge. After that the symptoms disappeared.

It is possible my car was not going into full sleep mode, but I can't be sure. I always keep a USB stick plugged into the USB port and I just noticed that the little green LED on the USB stick that indicates read/write activity was flickering on/off even when the car was parked, idle, and the ignition key NOT inserted. Clearly the USB device was active when the car was not. THis was quite a surprise to me. This is also NOT discussed in the manual. I have since removed the USB stick when the car is not being driven.

I think the fact that I had not started the car in a few weeks also contributed to the partial draining of the battery.
jesimmons, sounds as if your problems are over and I agree about the USB device. It's draw may have been slight, but added to the draw (normal) the car already has, + the not starting for weeks, should we be surprised about having some battery issue? I think not.

Some on here speak of their past vehicles not having such battery issues, even after being parked for X number of weeks. I, for one, have never had a past car that had so many electronic 'needs', much less the need to take up to 16 (?) minutes to go into 'sleep mode', all the while consuming power for something (?) until it does.

A battery tender is a small price to pay to keep battery issues at bay.
Damn, that was kinda poetic.

dj
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  #8  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:39 AM
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goodchip goodchip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSAMMY View Post
OK, I’ve done quite a bit of troubleshooting of various electrical problems with our 2002 X5 – I’m no expert, but here’s an explanation in a nutshell. “Sleep Mode” is a state of rest of your BMW’s electronics when there is less than 38-50mA draw at “rest”, usually after about 16 minutes. You do not need to lock the car for it to enter “Sleep Mode” and there is nothing that you have to do – it usually happens about 16 minutes after you shut the engine off and leave the vehicle with radio off, etc. I’ve attached a photo of my Fluke multi-meter showing a draw of 27mA while my X5 was “sleeping”. A good indicator of whether a 5er is going into sleep for 2007 MY and earlier, is to observe the orange LED on the shifter console. It will go off (or dark) after 16 minutes after you turn the car off and exit the vehicle. I’m not sure if 2008 MY and up has an orange indicator or not – just check during the evening to see.

Now that I’ve described sleep mode, keep in mind there are a few factors that can prevent your car from entering “sleep mode” – specifically, anything that can cause your 5er to ever exceed 38-50mA draw at rest. Things like aftermarket car starters, and devices that are hard-wired incorrectly into circuits that do not shut off with the ignition “key” and/or start/stop button. These items can certainly cause a greater than 50mA draw and your 5er will never enter sleep mode - your battery performance will suffer greatly – in other words, your battery will be toast within a month or so. So, keep this in mind when installing aftermarket electronics yourself or “professionally”. Anyway, I hope this helps in explaining “sleep mode” and I can provide specifics in how to connect a (high-end) multi-meter to test for total system draw during “sleep” if you’d like.
I've been reading these boards for almost five years, and I have to say this may be the most lucid, detailed and intelligent response to an intelligent and relevant question I've ever seen. ( I know I add nothing to the issue at hand here, just had to say it, though!)
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  #9  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:47 AM
sdbrandon sdbrandon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSAMMY View Post
Yes Sir, if you have comfort access, it's a good idea to keep the fob away from the vehicle to ensure it enters sleep mode. Comfort access uses Bluetooth technology and the standard for Bluetooth is roughly 35 feet, therefore, it's a good practice to keep the comfort access key fob as far away as possible, to ensure it's not "awaking" your car constantly. My car is garaged right now and uses the trickle charger sparingly, sometimes not for 3+ weeks - my car always starts no problem!
I was under the impression comfort access used RFID and not bluetooth.

If it used BT, the fob battery would not last long at all.
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  #10  
Old 02-01-2009, 11:33 AM
bbal bbal is offline
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I wonder how many people with battery drain issues have comfort access...maybe that is the issue? Anyone without CA have battery drain problems? 35 feet (or less) is probably the distance from the car to where many keep their keys when home.
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  #11  
Old 02-01-2009, 06:05 PM
MSAMMY MSAMMY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodchip View Post
I've been reading these boards for almost five years, and I have to say this may be the most lucid, detailed and intelligent response to an intelligent and relevant question I've ever seen. ( I know I add nothing to the issue at hand here, just had to say it, though!)
Thanks! I'm just here trying to help out!
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2009, 06:08 PM
MSAMMY MSAMMY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbrandon View Post
I was under the impression comfort access used RFID and not bluetooth.

If it used BT, the fob battery would not last long at all.
After thinking this one through and doing a bit of research, I think you're correct. It must use RFID and not Bluetooth. I'd still keep the CA fob stored as far as possible from the vehicle to ensure it's not "waking" the car up and draining the battery while parked.
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2009, 07:42 PM
That Guy That Guy is offline
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Concierge Service

We do have Comfort Access and I don't believe the key is stored more than 35 ft. away. More like 20 ft., but the signal would have to travel through a wall. Having to lock it overnight every once in a while is not a big hassle in my opinion. This apparent hassle is far out weighed by the car automatically remembering that I had my seat heater on level 2 prior getting out of the car to fill it with gas. These 16 minutes of memory are like a little concierge service.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2009, 09:37 PM
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My 530iT with Comfort Access keeps Blue Tooth connected unless I shut car down and lock it, but even then, my phone shows BMW as a "connected" device... sometimes I get a call and when I answer from in the house, the call is routed through the car!!! Frustrating...
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:59 PM
2e39s 2e39s is offline
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My car (2008 525xi withOUT CA) will drain after about 8 days or so sitting in the garage. Similar to what others have described, it starts but time is erased, AWD is disabled, etc. I travel a lot so the car sits, and others to drive. Anyway, I probably should get the battery tender but I know my wife will not disconnect it if it involves under the hood and aligator clips. Anyone ever do some sort of quick disconnect? It would be nice if the 12V supply in the trunk was powered when in sleep as that would make it easy.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2009, 05:23 AM
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w5lx w5lx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche View Post
My 530iT with Comfort Access keeps Blue Tooth connected unless I shut car down and lock it, but even then, my phone shows BMW as a "connected" device... sometimes I get a call and when I answer from in the house, the call is routed through the car!!! Frustrating...
That doesn't sound right. The Blue Tooth shuts down in both of my cars when the ignition is turned off. No need to lock the doors.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:55 PM
jesimmons jesimmons is offline
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Originally Posted by 2e39s View Post
Anyone ever do some sort of quick disconnect? It would be nice if the 12V supply in the trunk was powered when in sleep as that would make it easy.
The Battery Tender Plus comes standard with a quick disconnect output. 2 wiring harnesses come with it to plug into the quick disconnect. One is the traditional alligator clips. The other is a more permanent solution with eyelet connetcors that can be permanently attached to the hot lead and ground under the hood. I use this approach and just use a velcro strap to secure the leads to the stabilizer bar when not in use. Takes 30 seconds to attach / disconnect. I suppose you could connect it to the battery wiring in the trunk, but in my case when the car is parked in the garage the front/hood sits 2 feet from my workbench where the Battery Tender sits. So wiring it under the hood was easier for me.
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesimmons View Post
The Battery Tender Plus comes standard with a quick disconnect output. 2 wiring harnesses come with it to plug into the quick disconnect. One is the traditional alligator clips. The other is a more permanent solution with eyelet connetcors that can be permanently attached to the hot lead and ground under the hood. I use this approach and just use a velcro strap to secure the leads to the stabilizer bar when not in use. Takes 30 seconds to attach / disconnect. I suppose you could connect it to the battery wiring in the trunk, but in my case when the car is parked in the garage the front/hood sits 2 feet from my workbench where the Battery Tender sits. So wiring it under the hood was easier for me.
jesimmons, yes grasshopper, pass on the knowledge.

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Old 02-24-2009, 11:49 AM
750Li2006 750Li2006 is offline
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2006 BMW 750Li Power Drain Issues and Comfort Access
I recently had a dead battery in my 2006 750, replaced it, and within hours the brand new battery was completely dead. BMW has since diagnosed the problem as an issue with my Comfort Access, and they have replaced the "handles". Yet, within a day or so the vehicle had noticeable power issues again. I received a P Brake Fault, and a Power Window Fault. Moreover, the car starts very hard - several slow cranks before firing ... I feel as though the problem has been improved, but still exists and I am a day or so away from a completely dead battery.

I have seen many threads on this site addressing this issue, but I have not seen a post that addresses this problem conclusively. BMW quickly diagnosed that the car was not "hibernating" properly and determine to replace the handles ... but that has not fully solved the problem.

Other suggestions I have seen on the web include, replacing the Comfort access module, upgrading the vehicle software, replacing the master computer replacing the IBS (intelligent battery sensor), and replacing the foot well control module ... has anyone had more or less success with these or any other suggestions?

Additional info related to my problem ... the car takes 17 minutes to "fully" sleep after locking (with CA or FOB). I can observe this since the light on the seat base adjustment inside the car remains lit for 17 minutes. Additionally, I hear noise coming from the trunk for several minutes - Navigation DVD? 16 minutes after the car is locked, the sound returns, and the start button illuminates .. and then everything shuts off after a little more a minute (17 minutes total from lock to sleep). I feel the real drain is coming from the unit in the trunk, but I think that is the cause of the drain, not the problem with the car entering hibernation.

Lastly, I just purchased a new Blackberry Curve that is bluetooth connected. I never put the FOB in the dash (does is really need to be charged that way?), and I never press the start button twice to kill the motor - but, I always lock the car with the CA handles on the car. Should I use a different routine to stop the motor and lock the car? I feel as though I am using the CA as billed, but for some reason I am experiencing these problems. I tend to think there is a new electronic malfunction somewhere (it worked well for several years), but it could always be improper use on my part - please, let me know if you recognize "user fault" in my routine.

Thanks for your time.
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:48 PM
No12 No12 is offline
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"...and I never press the start button twice to kill the motor..."

I may be wrong, but if you press start once on parking, are you not leaving all the electrics on; thus the problem with your battery?

I always press "start" twice on parking to turn all systems off.

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Old 02-24-2009, 03:49 PM
No12 No12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesimmons View Post
The Battery Tender Plus comes standard with a quick disconnect output. 2 wiring harnesses come with it to plug into the quick disconnect. One is the traditional alligator clips. The other is a more permanent solution with eyelet connetcors that can be permanently attached to the hot lead and ground under the hood. I use this approach and just use a velcro strap to secure the leads to the stabilizer bar when not in use. Takes 30 seconds to attach / disconnect. I suppose you could connect it to the battery wiring in the trunk, but in my case when the car is parked in the garage the front/hood sits 2 feet from my workbench where the Battery Tender sits. So wiring it under the hood was easier for me.
Exacctly what I do. Takes no time at all.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:03 PM
750Li2006 750Li2006 is offline
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Hitting the start button once does leave the electronics on - but locking the doors has the same effect as hitting start button the second time - it shuts down all of the electronics. Also, sometimes I insert the FOB in the dash, and removing it should also have the same effect of shutting down all electronics. In any event, the problem just stated after nearly four years and has occurred on a new and old battery. I certainly wish it was as a result of a habit I could change, but that doesn't appear to be the cause of the problem.

In any case, thanks for the suggestions and please let me know if you/anyone has any more. Tomorrow they will replace the CA handles on the rear doors (they only did the front on the first attempt) - so hopefully that will solve the issues, but I'm definitely loosing confidence.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:51 PM
jesimmons jesimmons is offline
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Originally Posted by 750Li2006 View Post
Hitting the start button once does leave the electronics on - but locking the doors has the same effect as hitting start button the second time - it shuts down all of the electronics.
I believe if you hit the start button once (while the engine is running), depressing it for only a split second, the engine shuts off but leaves the electrical system in accessory mode (i.e. the radio continues to operate, as do other accessory curcuits). If you press the start button and hold it in for a second or two while the engine is running, everything shuts off immediately - including all accessories. I never tried hitting the start button twice.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:09 PM
No12 No12 is offline
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Originally Posted by jesimmons View Post
I believe if you hit the start button once (while the engine is running), depressing it for only a split second, the engine shuts off but leaves the electrical system in accessory mode (i.e. the radio continues to operate, as do other accessory curcuits). If you press the start button and hold it in for a second or two while the engine is running, everything shuts off immediately - including all accessories. I never tried hitting the start button twice.
Now we are learning all sorts of new things....
I have never tried holding the button in; I always hit it twice. I'll try holding it in tomorrow. Makes sense tho.
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Gone: 2012 135i Coupe, Jet Black, MSport, 6MT
Gone: 2012 135i Coupe,LeMans Blue, MSport, DCT, Prem
Gone: 2011 X35i, Vermillion Red, MSport.
Gone: 2007 328xiTouring, Barbera Red, Lemon, 6MT.
Gone: 2009 M3 Sedan, Alpine White, Black Novillo, M-DCT.
Gone: 2008 535xi, Alpine White, Black Dakota, MSport.
Long Gone: 11 other BMWs between 1971 and 1986.
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  #25  
Old 04-09-2010, 10:46 PM
CGOH CGOH is offline
Prince of Siglap
Location: Singapore
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 41
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Mein Auto: E64
Sometimes my car push start/stop button is still illuminated after a few hours of car being lock. I have lock and unlock the car again to get it to turn off. Does it mean that the car is not sleeping? All other lights are off after a few minutes. Also this only happen occassionally. I dare not leave it alone without making it go off as I already had a dead battery once (do not know if it is the root cause but did not want to go through it again). Anyone notices this in their car?
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