Z3M vs. Honda S2000

Originally Posted by z3widebody

I'm not sure what kind of Miata you had, but my Z3 ran circles around a Miata on the 318 curves in 11 miles up at the Tail of the Dragon in Western North Carolina. I've owned several Miata's, including a Speed Edition turbo and the handling of the Z3 is better by far. The Miata is set up very well, but the tiny stock tires/wheels break away easily when pushed hard in curves. The 225 and 245 width tires of the Z3 really gave me an edge. When it comes to power to push you thru the steep winding curves, there's no comparison to even the turbo charged speed edition Miata to my 2.8 litre Z3. The inline 6 simply out performs the most powerful stock Miata ever produced. Sorry to take issue with your thoughts, but just had to place my 2 cents worth in.

Just a bone-stock manual Miata. The suspension was very tight and would handle curves great. My Z3, in stock form, would wallow in the corners. I added a Strong Strut and Eibach springs and anti-roll kit that helped, but it was never as tight.

For the overall driving experience, the distinction and rarity, I would go for the Z3M.

I've owned:

BMW M Cars:
99 M Coupe
00 M Roadster
Z4M Coupe Now

Honda:
03 S2k
93 NSX
93 NSX
98 NSX

So it appears I like Honda's slightly better! No not really but I just realized I've had more. But then again I've had a 325 and 740 as well so I've had more BMW's.

Anyhow here is a quick breakdown of my pro's and cons:

S2k Pro's
Great steering. Better than the M Roady. The steering wheel is smaller and feels better.

Gear shift - short, precise engagement. Perfect mechanical feel with no rubbery sensation.

Rigidity. The S2k doesn't flex nearly as much. Even after I added a strong strut the M Roady still flexed

Light feel. S2k feels very light on its feet and although it lacks torque its fun even slow due to the steering/rapid turnin and "drop out of sight nose"

Looks. I still love is wedge look. Lowered on wheels its simplistic look is timeless to me

Gas mileage

S2k Cons:
Torque.

Clout/status

Interior is sparse


M Roady Pro's
Classic low beltline roadster feel

Lovely interior

Torque - feels like a modern ac cobra in execution

fat booty - wide rear with deep wheels has mega pressence

Trailing arm suspension - while this is a con on a track, when it comes to tail out fun nothing is easier to get sideways and hold it than Z3M. I used to hang tail out for blocks at wll!


Cons:
Steering - compared to S2k the wheel is too big and ratio much slower

Feels Heavy - again compared to S2k it feels like a pig to drive

Chassis Flex - hated this


Hope this helps. Oh and here are some pics... M coupe is in there but I didn't have digital cam when I had the M roady.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/291976

Evoking, you forgot the Honda (Aisin) gearboxes which is arguably the best MT found in a production vehicle to date, regardless of price. Heck, most all Japanese sports cars have better shifting gear boxes than their German counterparts, which feel clunky and a little too notchy in comparison. I've driven a couple of S2ks before too so I know what the deal is you smell me?

Good points y'all. I still think the S2k makes for a better sports car overall but the Z3M has more visual appeal. One more thing to note is that it's hard to live with torqueless cars on a regular basis like the S2k (and my RX-8).

Originally Posted by Evoking

I've owned:

BMW M Cars:
99 M Coupe
00 M Roadster
Z4M Coupe Now

Honda:
03 S2k
93 NSX
93 NSX
98 NSX


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/291976

Please share your experiences/pros and cons regarding your '93 & '98 NSX's. Always wanted one!

93 NSX's are the last of the non-power steering models. Best steering feel of any car with Evo being close second. The 98 is stronger of course with 3.2 and 6spd. However, I hated the chassis flex that accompanied the targa.

NSX's make you feel like F1 for the road. They are very long, low, great sound... Set the steering wheel to lowest setting which almost feels like its between your legs like like a proper racer/go-cart. Exhaust and headers deliver a sound that rivals many ferrari's. The only logical progression from an NSX is a 430 (360 honestly didn't feel like a big enough jump to justify), Gallardo, R8 etc. That is if you're a mid-engine fan.

I'm gonna have to drive a S2K with all the comments that keep popping up about it being better handling than the M. Except for snap-roll throttle let-off issues going into corners, I think the 50/50 weight distribution of the bimmer is phenomenal. Rock steady in the mid 100mph+ ranges and stops faster than your internal organs appreciate. I suppose I could just be love blinded by the 0-60mph under 5 seconds..

Although I'm a BMW fan, I have to say the S2000 I drove had one of the best shifters I've ever used. It was butter smooth and very positive in the engagement of gears.

If your looking for a roadster and your less than 6 feet tall, go try a Miata. The aftermarket is huge for these cars and the handling/reliability is phenomenal. Add a supercharger for $3000 and your up there with the big boys. I had mine for 12 years without a single glitch. I still wouldn't trade it for my Z3 3.0 Coupe though.

I've driven an S2k for about 400 miles (my cousin's husband owned one), and I have to say, it was quite fun, but you really have to get on it for it to get moving. I liked that it felt sporty, like you're in a fighter jet, and the engine even sounds like it after 6K RPMs! Would I like it as a daily driver, probably not. Not enough space, and the complete lack of torque really ruins it.
As for the Z3, I only test drove it twice, for a total of 14-16 miles. Of that time, all I could really think of was how much I hate convertibles! This one had a terrible rear window that was completely yellow. The driving experience however, was quite nice. I liked how it felt as though it was always ready to go fast. The ride was comfortable, but I only drove on nice roads.
If I had to pick, and they were the same price, I'd probably pick the Z3.

My freind's early s2K was a blast to drive - at high rpms. A opted for the my first MC (2000) because of style, seat position/comfort, and ability to daily drive at under 7000 rpms. I found the seats in the s2k to be very uncomfortable. Great track car, but not if you want to do BMW CCA driving schools, no converts allowed in my area. He loves his car, I love mine (currently an 02 MC), so all are happy.

Originally Posted by FINZ

My freind's early s2K was a blast to drive - at high rpms. A opted for the my first MC (2000) because of style, seat position/comfort, and ability to daily drive at under 7000 rpms. I found the seats in the s2k to be very uncomfortable. Great track car, but not if you want to do BMW CCA driving schools, no converts allowed in my area. He loves his car, I love mine (currently an 02 MC), so all are happy.

I think the S2000 is the better looking car; but the torque of the Z3M makes it an easier and more practical car to drive every day.

interesting comments/perspectives guys. just thought i'd bump this thread since i've just decided to look at an s2k as a weekend (not track) car. i'm going to keep my 540iA as my DD, but i'm realizing that i miss the top-down fun of my previous boxster. i was thinking another boxster/911 vert, but don't want the maint hassles associated with one i could afford (i have enough of those with my e39!). it looks like i can easily get an '06 s2k with 20k miles and hondacare warranty for under $20k. there are also a number of supercharged beasts currently available (ap1) for $12-$14k, but not sure i want to go that route. i'm all too familiar with the lack of low-end torque (i had a '96 GS-r before I went BMW) and really, really enjoyed driving the p*ss out of that car!

while the interior, stereo, etc. on the s2k are clearly lacking, those aren't the reasons i'm interested in this car.

Originally Posted by hts

interesting comments/perspectives guys. just thought i'd bump this thread since i've just decided to look at an s2k as a weekend (not track) car. i'm going to keep my 540iA as my DD, but i'm realizing that i miss the top-down fun of my previous boxster. i was thinking another boxster/911 vert, but don't want the maint hassles associated with one i could afford (i have enough of those with my e39!). it looks like i can easily get an '06 s2k with 20k miles and hondacare warranty for under $20k. there are also a number of supercharged beasts currently available (ap1) for $12-$14k, but not sure i want to go that route. i'm all too familiar with the lack of low-end torque (i had a '96 GS-r before I went BMW) and really, really enjoyed driving the p*ss out of that car!

while the interior, stereo, etc. on the s2k are clearly lacking, those aren't the reasons i'm interested in this car.

As a previous 2006 S2K owner, I would highly recommend the car. I love the torque of the Z4M inline 6 in comparison but the S2K's 2.2 has plenty of twist if you get on it. Great handling and brakes as well. Perfect track car out of the box with very little to do(maybe different brake pads?)

Originally Posted by chickdr

As a previous 2006 S2K owner, I would highly recommend the car. ... Perfect track car out of the box with very little to do(maybe different brake pads?)

...which would be great if he was looking for a track car, but he's not.

hts, are you cross-shopping the Z3M?

I drove the s2000 before I bought my Z4M. To me, it wasn't even a comparison.

Originally Posted by Jakked

...which would be great if he was looking for a track car, but he's not.

hts, are you cross-shopping the Z3M?

I drove the s2000 before I bought my Z4M. To me, it wasn't even a comparison.

no, i'm really not. i'm just looking for a fun, inexpensive (to buy and maintain) top-down roadster. my last four cars have been gs-r, 330i, boxster s, 540i. of those four (all good cars btw, each with its own merits), i think i really, really enjoyed the gs-r the most, believe it or not. it's quick little snick-snick shifter was the best. not that the others aren't all good cars in their own right (very different of course), but i think if i can combine the purity of the short-throw shifter (the s2k's even better than my gsr's) with top-down fun, i can overlook the s2k's shortcomings (ie., cheap interior materials, digital dash, crappy stereo, etc.).

i might also look at a 370z vert (very different car i realize), but i did enjoy it's rev-synchro matching a LOT.

Originally Posted by Jakked

...which would be great if he was looking for a track car, but he's not.

hts, are you cross-shopping the Z3M?

I drove the s2000 before I bought my Z4M. To me, it wasn't even a comparison.

How is the ride quality comparison between the s2000 and Z4m?

Originally Posted by Jakked

...which would be great if he was looking for a track car, but he's not.

hts, are you cross-shopping the Z3M?

I drove the s2000 before I bought my Z4M. To me, it wasn't even a comparison.

Yeah, one was $15k and the other one was $40k

It just depends on what you're looking for.

I test-drove an S2000 before buying my Z3M Coupe but I simply couldn't see having a car with a Honda-cheap interior and refinement level as my only car. The BMW won out by a mile. I knew I'd miss the S52 engine if I got the S2k (I had an E36 M3 before).

But I'm looking at buying a cheap s2000 to add to the stable. So easy to find a nice one sub-15k, they can even push 10k if you don't care about the condition of the top, and the car will run forever. For me, when it comes to a fast fun roadster, I don't even think BMW. I think lightweight, simple, basic s2000. Hell, I'd like to go lighter like a Miata, but I'm just not 100% sure I could deal with the less powerful engine, despite the lighter weight of the car. The BMW is too heavy and well-appointed for me to consider a fun little runabout roadster. When I think roadster, I just don't think 3200-3500lbs, nav, heavily insulated top, etc etc etc.

To each his own.. just like most Z3/Z4 owners would never cross-shop a 4 seat convertible.

agreed. if this was to be my only car, i doubt that i could live with the s2k on a daily basis. but i'm not planning to ditch my 540 any time soon. i plan to pick up a cheap s2k for the weekends and in 2-3 years (i just got my 540i last nov) dump the 540i for either an f10 or something else. i'll plan to hang on to the s2k for awhile, as they're practically bullet-proof and dirt cheap (to buy and maintain).

Originally Posted by hts

agreed. if this was to be my only car, i doubt that i could live with the s2k on a daily basis. but i'm not planning to ditch my 540 any time soon. i plan to pick up a cheap s2k for the weekends and in 2-3 years (i just got my 540i last nov) dump the 540i for either an f10 or something else. i'll plan to hang on to the s2k for awhile, as they're practically bullet-proof and dirt cheap (to buy and maintain).

Why not go for another Boxster?

Originally Posted by daveappen

Why not go for another Boxster?

i've had one and don't really feel like doing it again. if (when) i go porsche again, i'm more likely to step up to a 911 i think. that being said, i'm really looking fwd to an s2k to play around with. i thought the boxster (while very nicely weighted) was much too heavy.

The comments about the "cheap" interior of the S2K are quite amusing. My S2000 had a very nice interior. Sure it is dated as the car came out in 1999 and wasn't changed much in its 10yr run, but the materials are very high quality. My car was rock solid for the 3yrs I had it. My 06 Z4 is different, but certainly not better in material quality and in some areas is inferior(cheap cup holders, creaks and groans). The S2000 stereo sucks in comparison but this is an easy fix. I would also comment on depreciation. My 06 S2K stickered at 35K. My 06 M stickered at 55K. When I turned my S2K in in May it had a value around $21K($14K less- a 40% drop from MSRP). I bought my M for 29K($26K or a 47% drop from MSRP). The S2K will require valve adjustments like the M will(but at a lower cost) but I would bet my life on the fact the S2K will be a much more reliable car over time. Of course, a lot of this has do with the fact the S2K is "simpler" (ie no bluetooth, trip computer, no TPMS, less complicated motor(ie no VANOS). But, the S2K has it where it counts with a power top, VDS system, HID lights, 6-sp manual, 8K redline. For the money, the S2K is hard to beat.

Originally Posted by Jakked

...which would be great if he was looking for a track car, but he's not.

hts, are you cross-shopping the Z3M?

I drove the s2000 before I bought my Z4M. To me, it wasn't even a comparison.

It is also a great "2nd car", as he said is looking for, which can be used on the track if desired, but is great weekend car as well. I would also put the MX-5 on this list although the 166hp motor is a drawback(but the 2500lb curb weight helps a lot in this regard). He wants a reliable, fun car, and the S2K is a great fit IMO. I would also consider the Z4 3.0si with it's less maintenance intensive requirements.

Originally Posted by daveappen

How is the ride quality comparison between the s2000 and Z4m?

Actually, they are surprisingly similar IMO. You can feel the added weight of the Z4M(400lbs worth) but to me, the Z4 is jittery over rough pavement the same way the S2K is(one of my chief complaints in comparison to the Boxster I had before my S2K). The M is better on the highway as it is quieter and gearing is superior(the 2.2 in the S2K is very loud on highway runs and the gearing does it no favors as the motor runs at 4K rpm's at 80 MPH).

I cross-shopped Z4's and S2k's back in 05, I ended up with the Zed.

I really, really liked the S2k, though, and I wish I could have one, but it'd definitely have to be a third car.

It's not the noise, though considerable, for me, it was the lack of adjustability of the steering wheel - the thing sat in my lap and there was no tilt or telescoping option.

Clutch was light, engine screamed and the gear shift was light and snicky - however, I like the heavier clutch in the bimmers and have even grown to appreciate the gear change, which is a bit rubbery, but feels much more stout.

Still, if it's an all out autocrosser you're looking for, the S2k is hard to beat.

Drive them and spend as much time with them as you can before deciding.

Ed