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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #126  
Old 02-09-2010, 10:41 PM
raykoala raykoala is offline
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I am in Canada , I got the same exchaust erro messege today. My 09' 35d has 8000 KM by now. I went to my dealship today when I got this messege and the technican told me this is very common problem in Canada cause the temperature is always below -10 C. I was asked to park the vichle in heated garage for an hour, and the problem did resolved.
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  #127  
Old 02-10-2010, 09:53 AM
Sea Doom Sea Doom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raykoala View Post
I was asked to park the vichle in heated garage for an hour, and the problem did resolved.
Related to the above post, and most of these cold climate DEF issues, I'd postulate that BMW engineering/marketing gambled a bit in ASSuming that most folks that can afford a 35d typically park in heated environs. Just a thought . . .
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  #128  
Old 02-10-2010, 10:53 AM
ChuckGr ChuckGr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Doom View Post
I'd postulate that BMW engineering/marketing gambled a bit in ASSuming that most folks that can afford a 35d typically park in heated environs. Just a thought . . .
I have never heard of a heated garage around here. Maybe the BMW engineers thought that BMW owners should live in Southern California. I have not seen freezing temperatures at my house for many years.

Chuck
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  #129  
Old 02-10-2010, 11:04 AM
Sea Doom Sea Doom is offline
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Originally Posted by ChuckGr View Post
I have never heard of a heated garage around here.
Chuck
Are many "upscale" (=BMW owning) domiciles in Germany (Europe) blessed with at least partially heated garages? In my limited experience of visiting friends and relatives from MN, KS, and KY - they all have some form of heating in their attached or shared garages, hence my smart-arse conjecture.
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  #130  
Old 02-10-2010, 11:25 AM
ChuckGr ChuckGr is offline
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I was just joking.

Chuck
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  #131  
Old 02-10-2010, 11:50 AM
ard ard is offline
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I think the engineers and the marketing people had a 'failure to communicate' on this issue.

Engineers just figured 'well, we will document it, and owners will just need to properly interpret the warnings and react accordingly'... the marketing people, too busy getting spray on tans, didn't fully realize that customers would get warning messages that would lead the sheeple to reflexively drive to a dealership and say "Fix It"......
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  #132  
Old 02-15-2010, 12:26 PM
xcfloyd xcfloyd is offline
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So whats the consensus boys? My first warning on my 2010 35D with 2,400 miles just came on this afternoon. Understandably its been about 20 degrees for the last week. Do I continue to drive it, hoping that it thaws in the next couple weeks and the warning goes away? Or do I need to bite the bullet and take it into the dealer? Please advise
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  #133  
Old 02-15-2010, 12:36 PM
Scot Scot is offline
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I was at 2400 as well.........and it was last week of December, and pretty cold too..........I put 1 gallon of Cummins Fleetguard DEF in the main tank.........and I haven't had the error message again..........and I now have 6000 miles.......... $6.00 per gallon jug...........you can go my Tracey Road equipment in Henrietta.....they are the Freightliner dealer...........they sell their Daimler version of DEF........AdBlue is the trade name........I don't know if it comes in 1 gallon jugs.....I've seen their 2.5 gallon.......might cost more than Fleetguard, but certainly less than BMW........good luck.........if you're in Syracuse, you can stop by Cummins Northeast, just off of Carrier Circle............or in Buffalo by the airport on Aero Way..........either way.....call first to make sure they have the product.........
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  #134  
Old 02-15-2010, 01:00 PM
Craig B Craig B is offline
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Won't the dealer top it off for free?

Craig
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  #135  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:37 PM
windjammer windjammer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcfloyd View Post
So whats the consensus boys? My first warning on my 2010 35D with 2,400 miles just came on this afternoon. Understandably its been about 20 degrees for the last week. Do I continue to drive it, hoping that it thaws in the next couple weeks and the warning goes away? Or do I need to bite the bullet and take it into the dealer? Please advise
I would suggest you take it in. There seems to be a pattern of 2010 35d's coming from the factory with significantly less than full tanks. Mine were filled at approx. the same miles and no problem since. Point being; it was NOT a false read. I'm at 3300 miles now and so far, so good. Average temps 20-30 degrees.
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  #136  
Old 02-15-2010, 09:07 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot View Post
...I put 1 gallon of Cummins Fleetguard DEF in the main tank...
Just to be clear...

Which tank do you regard as the "main" tank. The smaller, heated 'active' tank with the easy-to-reach filler on the passenger's side of the engine? Or the bigger, unheated 'passive' tank with the filler partially obscured by the air intake tube on the driver's side?

Funf Dreisig
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  #137  
Old 02-15-2010, 09:13 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Originally Posted by windjammer View Post
I would suggest you take it in. There seems to be a pattern of 2010 35d's coming from the factory with significantly less than full tanks. Mine were filled at approx. the same miles and no problem since. Point being; it was NOT a false read. I'm at 3300 miles now and so far, so good. Average temps 20-30 degrees.
Exactly how much DEF did the dealer put in your 35d? It should be on your paper work.

Funf Dreisig
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  #138  
Old 02-16-2010, 05:06 AM
Scot Scot is offline
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the active tank, easy to fill..........
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  #139  
Old 02-16-2010, 05:46 AM
Marwan Marwan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joegoesfishing View Post
I'm not sure if I ever reported what was wrong with my urea system. Turned out that the factory never attached the tubing from the passive to active tank. So my active tank was never being refilled by the passive.

I haven't had another problem since the tubing was attached. Very satisfied with the dealer's & BMW NA attention to this situation.
Are you freaking kidding me?!!!! They did not attach the tubing at the factory?!!!! OK, what else then might those morons not attach in the next car, brake fluid tubing, water pump, battery cables, tires?!!!! What does this say about QA at Spartanberg? If BMW will not manufacture the Xs in Germany due to cost issues, I vote that all BMW manufacturing outside of Germany be moved to Korea. At least we'll be sure that everything is CONNECTED before a car leaves the factory.

Last edited by Marwan; 02-16-2010 at 05:51 AM.
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  #140  
Old 02-16-2010, 06:47 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by Marwan View Post
Are you freaking kidding me?!!!! They did not attach the tubing at the factory?!!!! OK, what else then might those morons not attach in the next car, brake fluid tubing, water pump, battery cables, tires?!!!! What does this say about QA at Spartanberg? If BMW will not manufacture the Xs in Germany due to cost issues, I vote that all BMW manufacturing outside of Germany be moved to Korea. At least we'll be sure that everything is CONNECTED before a car leaves the factory.
Quality has to do with the company Management, not where it is located.

http://www.assemblymag.com/Articles/...00f932a8c0____

Until it was recently closed, the plant with the highest quality in the World was the Ford Town Car plant in Michigan:

http://www.streetdirectory.com/trave..._segments.html
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  #141  
Old 02-16-2010, 06:54 AM
Scot Scot is offline
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That's because only the Mafia bought the town car..........and even Ford was smart enough not to mess with that customer base........... I wonder if there is a Town Car forum? I can only imagine the threads........"have any of youz guyz had da problem wit da Map thingy not been able to understand you voiczes?

I can only imagine what their posting names would be................. any suggestions ??
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  #142  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:46 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scot View Post
the active tank, easy to fill..........
In that case you did exactly* what BMW recommends in cold weather... When the warning appears add DEF to the active tank as needed until the passive tank thaws.

Funf Dresig

* Well maybe not 'exactly'. BMW would probably prefer that you had purchased their 'special' BMW branded DEF at their 'extra special' price
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  #143  
Old 02-18-2010, 11:51 AM
xcfloyd xcfloyd is offline
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The passive tank thawed itself. After a few days of being frozen, I started her up after a night above freezing and the warning was gone. I guess that answers that question. I'll definitely mention it next time I take it in. Thanks for the advice all.
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  #144  
Old 02-20-2010, 09:50 PM
R6soldier R6soldier is offline
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i have read the whole 6 pages because my girlfriend and i are about to put an order for a 2010 x5 35d this week...is this problem happening more for 2009 than 2010?? how can we make sure the tank is filled once the car is ready?? is it something we can physically see or look at?? i dont want the CA to just say yes its filled and come back a few miles later to top it off if it wasn't filled to begin with...

so every 10,000miles this has to be changed/flush??
do i ask them if this is covered under the 4 year/100,000miles maintenance??

any info/advice would be greatly appreciated
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  #145  
Old 02-20-2010, 10:11 PM
ChuckGr ChuckGr is offline
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Originally Posted by R6soldier View Post
so every 10,000miles this has to be changed/flush??
do i ask them if this is covered under the 4 year/100,000miles maintenance??
DEF is covered with the normal maintenance for the term of the 4 Years/50,000 Miles Maintenance Program and further if you prepay for a longer maintenance program.

It may not be covered if needed between the normal scheduled maintenance.

Chuck
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  #146  
Old 02-20-2010, 11:12 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by ChuckGr View Post
DEF is covered with the normal maintenance for the term of the 4 Years/50,000 Miles Maintenance Program and further if you prepay for a longer maintenance program.

It may not be covered if needed between the normal scheduled maintenance.

Chuck
This is not a legally accurate statement. BMW's policies, as they are executed by their customer service agents and dealers, and the language in their Maintenance Plan (that is legally binding) are a bit incongruous....

In the documents they say DEF is included when the Condition based service on the car says service is needed. But they try to say "Oh, we meant the other service- like the Oil Service or other regular maintenance... but when the car's warning system says 'Needs DEF' this isn't the Conditon based service we were talking about".

The last page in this matter is being printed I suspect.
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  #147  
Old 02-20-2010, 11:15 PM
ChuckGr ChuckGr is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
This is not a legally accurate statement.
ARD,

Are you an attorney?

Chuck
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  #148  
Old 02-20-2010, 11:19 PM
ChuckGr ChuckGr is offline
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
This is not a legally accurate statement.
ARD,

I was just trying to give an answer to the best of my knowledge not a legal opinion. I am not an attorney.

Are you an attorney licensed to give legal opinions?

Chuck
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  #149  
Old 02-21-2010, 05:09 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R6soldier View Post
i have read the whole 6 pages because my girlfriend and i are about to put an order for a 2010 x5 35d this week...
As a 2009 35d owner w/ 6,000miles who is fairly up on this issue...

1 - is this problem happening more for 2009 than 2010?? - Probably not. But in general 2009 35Ds have more miles on them. Hence they have used more of their first fill up by now. And some 2009s have already had their first Conditions Based Service (e.g. oil change). So more 2009 35d owners have been subjected to BMW dealers' learning curve w.r.t. what BMW NA will or won't cover as part of the 'free maintenance'.

2 - how can we make sure the tank is filled once the car is ready?? is it something we can physically see or look at??- AFAIK you can't. There have been reports that dealer techs can access the info from the sensors in the tanks. To put this fill up issue in perspective -- a 35d owner could fill the whole system at retail rates for DEF (Cummins) for under $50.

3 - so every 10,000miles this has to be changed/flush?? - The actual mileage you get from the first 6.5 gals of DEF is still a mystery. But it looks like 35Ds should normally get over 12,000 miles before the DEF tanks need to be FILLED. Whether they really need to be FLUSHED is still a matter of debate hinging on the mileage/yr. IOW it has been postulated that a 35d driven 12k a year, probably only needs to be filled. Whereas a very low mileage/yr 35d may need to be flushed since the remaining DEF in it's tanks my be beyond it's limited 'shelf life'.

4- do i ask them if this is covered under the 4 year/100,000miles maintenance?? - Unfortunately BMW dealers are telling owners a variety of 'stories' about this issue. I suspect that is because they simply don't know, but are unwilling to fess up. If this issue is a potential show stopper for you, I'd tell my selling dealer that and require a written document stating that they (the dealer) will perform whatever DEF maintenance is needed during the 4 year/100,000miles maintenance period for 'free'. Unless you have cut an absolutely rock bottom deal, they/you still have some room to negotiate. If the dealer won't do it, ask for a deeper discount on the selling price. If more potential 35d buyers would hold the selling dealer's feet to the fire on this DEF issue BEFORE they sign the purchase agreement, BMW dealers would figure this out ASAP.

IMO the DEF issue is largely a PR issue for BMW and their dealers. If BMW would simply publish clear info on what DEF maintenance is or is not covered in their 'free' 4 year/100,000miles maintenance, it would soon become no big deal, because buyers could build it into their purchase price negotiations.

Funf Dreisig

Last edited by Funf Dreisig; 02-21-2010 at 05:28 AM.
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  #150  
Old 02-21-2010, 05:38 AM
R6soldier R6soldier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
As a 2009 35d owner w/ 6,000miles who is fairly up on this issue...

1 - is this problem happening more for 2009 than 2010?? - Probably not. But in general 2009 35Ds have more miles on them. Hence they have used more of their first fill up by now. And some 2009s have already had their first Conditions Based Service (e.g. oil change). So more 2009 35d owners have been subjected to BMW dealers' learning curve w.r.t. what BMW NA will or won't cover as part of the 'free maintenance'.

2 - how can we make sure the tank is filled once the car is ready?? is it something we can physically see or look at??- AFAIK you can't. There have been reports that dealer techs can access the info from the sensors in the tanks. To put this fill up issue in perspective -- a 35d owner could fill the whole system at retail rates for DEF (Cummins) for under $50.

3 - so every 10,000miles this has to be changed/flush?? - The actual mileage you get from the first 6.5 gals of DEF is still a mystery. But it looks like 35Ds should normally get over 12,000 miles before the DEF tanks need to be FILLED. Whether they really need to be FLUSHED is still a matter of debate hinging on the mileage/yr. IOW it has been postulated that a 35d driven 12k a year, probably only needs to be filled. Whereas a very low mileage/yr 35d may need to be flushed since the remaining DEF in it's tanks my be beyond it's limited 'shelf life'.

4- do i ask them if this is covered under the 4 year/100,000miles maintenance?? - Unfortunately BMW dealers are telling owners a variety of 'stories' about this issue. I suspect that is because they simply don't know, but are unwilling to fess up. If this issue is a potential show stopper for you, I'd tell my selling dealer that and require a written document stating that they (the dealer) will perform whatever DEF maintenance is needed during the 4 year/100,000miles maintenance period for 'free'. Unless you have cut an absolutely rock bottom deal, they/you still have some room to negotiate. If the dealer won't do it, ask for a deeper discount on the selling price. If more potential 35d buyers would hold the selling dealer's feet to the fire on this DEF issue BEFORE they sign the purchase agreement, BMW dealers would figure this out ASAP.

IMO the DEF issue is largely a PR issue for BMW and their dealers. If BMW would simply publish clear info on what DEF maintenance is or is not covered in their 'free' 4 year/100,000miles maintenance, it would soon become no big deal, because buyers could build it into their purchase price negotiations.

Funf Dreisig
thank you for the info/advice...help me better understand
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