2009 X5 35D Diesel Exhaust Urea Reservoir Problem

how much is it to maintain this fluid after the 4years/50,000miles??

Funf told you in his post- $50 for a full fill of fluid.


Or $200+ if you go to BMW for it.

Originally Posted by ChuckGr

ARD,

I was just trying to give an answer to the best of my knowledge not a legal opinion. I am not an attorney.

Are you an attorney licensed to give legal opinions?

Chuck

My comments came off wrong. The phrase "legally accurate" was unfortunate and perhaps a bit pompous.... I was just trying to point out that BMW has some issues with their policies.

A

Originally Posted by ard

Funf told you in his post- $50 for a full fill of fluid.


Or $200+ if you go to BMW for it.

thanx

Originally Posted by ard

I think the engineers and the marketing people had a 'failure to communicate' on this issue.

Engineers just figured 'well, we will document it, and owners will just need to properly interpret the warnings and react accordingly'... the marketing people, too busy getting spray on tans, didn't fully realize that customers would get warning messages that would lead the sheeple to reflexively drive to a dealership and say "Fix It"......

as an engineer i can tell you it went more like this:

hey marketing guy, this urea thing doesnt really work yet and people are going to be upset with us.

hey engineer guy, heres your deadline, get it done and stop being so negative, thats what customer service is for.

i came here to do a little research on the 35d since i found one for a decent price. the urea thing doesnt seem like a deal breaker at $50 or so a year if im understanding this correctly. but if theyre not achieving the claimed fuel efficiency, why deal with it? the 3 litre gas seems like a safer bet? is 20 cty / 26 hwy out of the question with a 35d, low 20's combined?

I am getting 21-22 mpg combined with a lot of city driving with just over 1,100 miles so far. I think the ratings are what you can expect for the 35D.

Chuck

Originally Posted by WieBitte?

.... is 20 cty / 26 hwy out of the question with a 35d, low 20's combined?

No. The lifetime (6,000miles) mpg* (US) on our 2009 35d (Aug 09 delivery) is roughly 22+. We see highs of 27-30mpg and lows (when towing) of 15-18mpg. Note the lifetime mpg includes both summer and winter fuel.

Funf Dreisig

* The lifetime mpg is based on a fuel log kept since delivery.

thats pretty darn good for an suv. i think most trucks this size regardless of who builds it average 15 to 16 combined. its nice to get on a long hwy trip and see upwards of 30 mpg too, especially in something as comfortable as an x5. i'll keep reading, thanks for the quick replies.

6,000 miles since 11-13-09........24.5 MPG.....most on winter fuel......most local stop & go....1st 1,000 miles from the factory was 27.8

Approx 25mpg (70% hwy) on mine. 27,000 miles on the odometer. I do put my foot into it often.

Originally Posted by Scot

At 2100 miles, as did several of us that posted similar mileages, your dealer likely did not fill up the main reservoir with DEF. If you take it back to the selling dealer, you should indeed point out to them that there are TWO fill necks that they need to put DEF in......the entire system should be approx. 6.5 gallons of DEF. The should not charge you for this.......even though the manual states that DEF isn't covered for 'top off' between oil fills....there is no way that 6.5 gallons would be used during 2100 miles. There are several threads on this between Xoutpost and Bimmerfest.

I just bought a 2010 X5 35d, took delivery a couple of weeks ago, and I just received the same message with only 900 miles on my car! Thank you for the helpful comments; I'll post the results of my service experience. I can hardly wait.

Warning message first came on just under 3000 miles. Went to the dealer and was given the "passive tank is frozen" story. I was skeptical but it had been cold in NJ for the past few weeks. Put in a bottle (1/2 gal) of DEF. It was actually amusing since this was a new experience for the techs at the dealer and I had to get out the owners manual to show them how to add the consumer bottle (as opposed to their machine for filling it). Message came back about 600 miles later - getting more skeptical but it still had been cold. Waited about 400 miles to see if it would go away but then added the fluid. Message came back about 500 miles later. At this point, it hadn't been below freezing (let alone 23 degrees) for a week or so and had been in the 40's most of the time. Took it back to the dealer and they took it in to look at it. No faults on the computer but they did discover that the hose from the passive tank to the active tank was pushed off its fitting. They fixed it and refilled it. So far, so good.

However, this is an extremely poor design in the first place. A vehicle with a MSRP over $60K should not have to go back to the dealer because they decided not to spend $10 to heat the passive tank. I'm glad I only live in NJ and not some place where it stays really cold for extended periods if this tank is truly designed to be allowed to freeze.

Originally Posted by wleighton

Warning message first came on just under 3000 miles. ....Put in a bottle (1/2 gal) of DEF. .... Message came back about 600 miles later - getting more skeptical but it still had been cold. Waited about 400 miles to see if it would go away but then added the fluid. Message came back about 500 miles later. ... Took it back to the dealer and they took it in to look at it. No faults on the computer but they did discover that the hose from the passive tank to the active tank was pushed off its fitting. ...

So after the second time the warning came on...
* you drove 400 miles before adding DEF
* you added 1/2 gal of DEF and
* you drove another 500 miles before the 3rd warning.

Is that right?

If so, you drove roughly 900 miles on 1/2 gal of DEF which is consistent with a range of roughly 12,000 miles for 6.5 gal of DEF.

FWIW I'd bet "that the hose from the passive tank to the active tank was pushed off its fitting" when you got the first warning. It's going to be interesting to see if dealers still try to use the "frozen passive tank" story this summer

Funf Dreisig

Funf,

Your assumptions are correct. Temperatures were warming up so I gave it some time before I added the fluid the second time to see if it would transfer. I also kept track of the mileage and compared it to what the range should be for just the bottle I added. When the message came back at that point, I knew that nothing was coming from the passive tank.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how long they continue the "frozen passive tank" story.

I drive an '03 30i and I get about 14 in town (on ordinary days I only drive about 10 miles) and way-low 20s hwy in good traffic -- 18-20 in bad (I'm an aggressive driver and it costs me ). I can get 25 if I drive an entire tank out at 90 on cruise on flat terrain with the a/c off. That happened twice -- to, and from Florida -- mid trip.

I don't reset my 2nd average (unless the dealer blows it) and it consistently shows 17, so what you guys are getting sounds pretty b*tching to me!

However, getting better gas mileage and all is great, but after spending 60k on a car, until it averages about 40mpg in town, it isn't going to huge difference in my purchasing decision; the difference here is going to save me a whopping $300/yr. What I'm lusting after is averaging almost 500 miles on a tank of gas -- ya baby!

Originally Posted by Joegoesfishing

Seems to be a problem with the Urea Storage/Injection system. At 1700 mi, my X5 displays a service warning that the "Exhaust Fluid is Low"; starting the mileage run down to prevent the vehicle from starting if the problem is not corrected. I checked for a leak & found no evidence of leakage whatsoever. This certainly should not be happening at 1700 mi. Annoying to say the least; undermining my confidence in the vehicle. Has anyone else experienced this situation?

Joe

I started having this display warning(17K mls) on Exhaust Reserve this winter (after car was left outside in snow for the 1st time - overnight). Wouldn't start - needed a jump - then the display warning popped up. Mind you it had just had it's yearly check/fill ups... a few weeks before. Dealer wasn't sure why it was coming up - but refilled it and added some sort of antifreeze. 3 weeks(!) later - Warning pops up AGAIN! Just brought it back to dealer today - they apologize saying they are on a learning curve with the new Diesels... Not happy - after spending 65K on a new BMW - - NEVER had issues like this with Infiniti SUVs. Wonder how many others are experienceing this problem. (also have to keep resetting time)

I had a warning come on a couple of weeks ago at about 7500 km. It only appeared once but I was concerned so I made an appointment with the dealership. They confirmed that the urea was low and topped it up. I made a point when I brought it in to mention that there is no way it should be low, considering they advertise it as only being necessary to fill during regularly scheduled maintenance.

There were only two options: 1. There is a problem with the system and it's leaking. or 2. the tanks were never fully filled.

They acknowledged that they are still learning this system and filled my tanks at no charge.

Very frustrated indeed. I have 3K miles on my 2010 335d, build date was back in December '09.

Last week I noticed some white stuff on driver's side in the back, thought it was bird crap!

Washed it and then noticed it was back the next afternoon, realized I have a leak from my urea tank.

I peeked under the car and saw more white stuff. Needless to say I brought it to the dealer and they gave me a sh!tty loaner so now I'm even more frustrated but I'll handle that tomorrow once I hear back from service after their diagnostic.

One of the Service guys said it might be the exhaust. I'm not really sure but my guess is the hose is either punctured, loose, or faulty... and I REALLY don't want to wait for them to order a new hose and get stuck driving this piece of crap for much longer.

Thoughts? I'll let you know what happens.

Originally Posted by vik0424

Very frustrated indeed. I have 3K miles on my 2010 335d, build date was back in December '09.

Last week I noticed some white stuff on driver's side in the back, thought it was bird crap!

Washed it and then noticed it was back the next afternoon, realized I have a leak from my urea tank.

I peeked under the car and saw more white stuff. Needless to say I brought it to the dealer and they gave me a sh!tty loaner so now I'm even more frustrated but I'll handle that tomorrow once I hear back from service after their diagnostic.

One of the Service guys said it might be the exhaust. I'm not really sure but my guess is the hose is either punctured, loose, or faulty... and I REALLY don't want to wait for them to order a new hose and get stuck driving this piece of crap for much longer.

Thoughts? I'll let you know what happens.

What is this "piece of crap" loaner you speak of? I know hundreds who would consider a lowly 3 Series a piece of crap...

- Mike

To Mike: Ha, actually it's an older 328i but it's primarily a piece of crap because it's filthy. There are stains everywhere, it stunk, it wasn't cleaned before they gave it to me, and I was in a hurry so I got in and got the heck out. I'm going back tomorrow to exchange it for a better loaner. The drive is still great even though it lacks all the bells and whistles I'm used to these days. I wouldn't care if I only had it for a day or 2 but I suspect this might take a little longer after going through all the responses in this thread. Wish me luck

Originally Posted by vik0424

To Mike: Ha, actually it's an older 328i but it's primarily a piece of crap because it's filthy. There are stains everywhere, it stunk, it wasn't cleaned before they gave it to me, and I was in a hurry so I got in and got the heck out. I'm going back tomorrow to exchange it for a better loaner. The drive is still great even though it lacks all the bells and whistles I'm used to these days. I wouldn't care if I only had it for a day or 2 but I suspect this might take a little longer after going through all the responses in this thread. Wish me luck

Ah, so it is dirty. I'll accept that.

Lot's of luck getting your car fixed. The 335d is one hellava blast to drive—sucks you are having issues.

Oh, welcome to Bimmerfest!

- Mike

Warning just came on. So I guess I have no choice but to make an appointment with the dealer. Anything I should ask the dealer to do, i.e order a hose just in case, etc?

They won't order a damn thing in advance.

If you want to be difficult, or perhaps I might say 'take control', you can write on the Work Order. "Permissions is ONLY granted to measure DEF fluid in both tanks and report to owner- any further work will require my faxed approval". You can make them type it in after "C/S [customer states] DEF warning illuminated, check and advise". They won't want to, and you can just write it anywhere on the work order, but link it to the part where you sign it granting them permission to do anything they want...

[As a matter of practice, I always cross out any text that says a shop can rely on telephone approvals- and add in a faxed approval.]

A

This is something that should be fully covered by BMWNA correct?

"should" be covered, but BMWNA is saying (sometimes) that they will only cover a "DEF service" when it is done at an Oil Change- and only if the oil change is due per the cars CBS indicator.

They may say "Oh, your driving style uses more DEF than normal, and this is not covered- pay us $240." The point is there is no way 2400 miles should run out. By forcing the dealer to disclose to you every aspect of their investigation, you might avoid getting screwed.

Of course, I am just paranoid.

A