Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > General BMW

General BMW
Use this forum to talk about general BMW news/stories and to chat with fellow enthusiasts about the direction that BMW is going in for their cars and/or motorcycles!

View Poll Results: Who do you think make better engines currently
BMW 44 95.65%
Mercedes Benz 2 4.35%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-07-2009, 04:09 PM
fatjoez fatjoez is offline
Registered User
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
Mein Auto: 96 Benz C200
Talking Was gona ask this on a benz forum, was scared they'd crucify me

Risking a biased response here but here goes anyway
I'm buying a new car soon (either mercedes or bmw) and I've been looking into the stats of mercedes C-Class, E-Class & BMW 3,5 Series Engines
Noteably I've been comparing the BMW 3 Series (2003+) & Mercedes C Class (2003+)

First I want to ask, what are your opinions on Mercedes C/CLK / BMW 3 Engines from 2003 models onwards. Ie BMW e46 platform in the coupes, and mercedes new 2007+ C Class
ie. how do they compare in terms of performance / reliability in your own opinions

Secondly I want to share my findings and get your thoughts and feedback
The following stats are from autoevolution.com

2003-2006 (E46) BMW 330CI (Coupe)
Displacement: 2979 cm3
Power KW(HP): 170(231)
CO˛ Emissions: 218 g/km
Fuel Consumption: 25.8 mpg (9.1 L/100Km)

2002-2006 (C209) Mercedes CLK320 (Coupe)
Displacement: 3199 cm3
Power KW(HP): 160(218)
CO˛ Emissions: 250 g/km
Combined: 32.2 mpg (7.3 L/100Km)

Now this is where it get's weird (in my opinion)

2005-Present (C209) Mercedes CLK280 (Coupe)
Displacement: 2996 cm3
Power KW(HP): 172(231)
CO˛ Emissions: 220 g/km
Combined: 24.5 mpg (9.6 L/100Km)

2006-Present (E92) BMW 330i (Coupe)
Displacement: 2996 cm3
Power KW(HP): 200(272)
CO˛ Emissions: 218 g/km
Fuel Consumption: 25.8 mpg (9.1 L/100Km)

My observations
* It appears the older 2002-2006 3.2L (C320) Mercedes Engine was more fuel efficient than the 2006+ 3L Engine (C280) - weird
* The BMW engines seem to have had massive improvements in both fuel efficiency, power output, and CO2 emissions, especially in comparison to the Mercedes

Do you think it's fair to say that BMW appear to be making better engines than Mercedes?
Is there anything I've missed?

Any feedback appreciated
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 03-07-2009, 04:43 PM
RCK's Avatar
RCK RCK is offline
Pundit
Location: La La Land
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,528
Mein Auto: E90 M3
__________________
E90 M3
997 C2S - Sold
E92 335i - Sold
E46 330i - Sold
E39 530i - Sold
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-07-2009, 05:03 PM
chicagofan00 chicagofan00 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Phoenix
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,749
Mein Auto: 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCK View Post
__________________
Future
2015 M3 - Sakhir Orange

Present
2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee - Overland Summit 4x4 - Deep Cherry Red

Past
2011 Audi S4 - Imola Yellow
2008 335i Cp - Montego Blue
Ordered: 2/24/08, Mine on: 4/18/08

View My Flickr Photos
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-07-2009, 05:23 PM
BadgelessM3 BadgelessM3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: bay area
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: 97-M3 02-530
This is a write up I did a few months ago I hope this will help.






so I went and test drove new cars last week. first i went to mercedes just to go see what those people are talking about. most mercedes owners think there cars a better than BMW this was not the case. first i test drove a new 2008 c240. don't really want to talk about the car because it was such a piece i took it right back. so the next car i drove was the famous SLK AMG 55. This car looked sick with it 400 + horsepower V8. I will tell you the truth I was excited to drive it.
So I took it out. I left the dealer in normal automatic sport mode. i drove it like this till i got used to driving it. after a little bit i switch it to the paddle shifter. let me tell you what a joke those things were worthless. shift took about 3second after pushing the buttons. i couldn't belive that a car that cost this much would lage so bad.
Next on the list was to go to BMW. I pulled in and saw a bunch of 3series sedans. I took out the new 335 twin turbo six sedan. the car was ok the motor was nice. the car did sound awsome when I down shifted when it bipped the throttle. Next on the list was a 2002 M built 540. I know these cars really well becuase my girl has a 530. so i've allway loved how they ride. took out brought it right back. for some reason the car has zero power. so finally I got to the 135i auto with sort paddles. god this car was off the hook. this was the first car I had driving which actually handled and had the same amount of power as my E36 M3. shifting the car was like playing a video game fast and instant.
I brought the car back 20minutes later with a big smile on my face. then I heard how much they were asking for the car 49,000$ wow that's alot. so Before I left I had to drive the 6speed manual. I took the car out and right away I could feel that i had hella controll of it compared to the paddle shifters.
long story shory 2009 135i twin turbo 6 is one sick car. if you have a chance to drive one do it it a blast
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-07-2009, 05:25 PM
MMME30W's Avatar
MMME30W MMME30W is offline
Super Moderator
Location: On The Move
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 14,122
Mein Auto: 2009 W906
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjoez View Post
Do you think it's fair to say that BMW appear to be making better engines than Mercedes?
Is there anything I've missed?

Any feedback appreciated
Define "better".
__________________
“Character is doing the right thing when nobody’s looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that’s right is to get by,and the only thing that’s wrong is to get caught.”

- J.C. Watts Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:39 PM
Kilgore Trout's Avatar
Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
Chicks dig Wagons!
Location: Stuck in traffic south of Burbank
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,836
Mein Auto: E91
The reliablity issue is open and shut, at least according to Consumer Reports. Their survey data has the 3-series rated "better than average" and the C-Class (and most M-B's) as "cars to avoid."

One thing to keep in mind with the E46, is that the power windows motors have a nasty tendency of dying.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-07-2009, 06:49 PM
terranuser terranuser is offline
Summer is coming!
Location: Ellicott City, Maryland
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 106
Send a message via Skype™ to terranuser
Mein Auto: TL, R350
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjoez View Post

2002-2006 (C209) Mercedes CLK320 (Coupe)
Displacement: 3199 cm3
Power KW(HP): 160(218)
CO˛ Emissions: 250 g/km
Combined: 32.2 mpg (7.3 L/100Km)
I think this figure is actually wrong. If i remember it right, CO2 emission has a direct relationship with gas mileage. So, with more CO2 emission than 06+ 3 series, CLK320 cannot have better mileage, because it burns more gas to generate more CO2, meaning less miles per gallon.

Anyhow, BMW engines are more powerful and more efficient.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-07-2009, 07:36 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, north shore (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,979
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
Straight sixes reign supreme hands down!! No doubt about it!! Just posted today, a guy in the E46 forum with a '99 323 owned since new with over 286,000 miles with normal maintenance.
__________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- Geo. Orwell

2006 330i Sonora w/ ActiveAutoWerke flash tune :-)
2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
2000 328i TiAg - gone but not forgotten

** Join the BMW CCA www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!! **
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-08-2009, 07:48 AM
e36m34life's Avatar
e36m34life e36m34life is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Portland, OR
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,054
Mein Auto: Take a Guess..
Not sure which motors are technically better, but I definitely prefer BMW motors.

My brother owned an 02 E320, and my sister owned an 05 E500 and although for the most part they were good cars, they were very boring to drive and the motors were no where near as smooth or silky as BMW motors.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-08-2009, 11:16 AM
Andrew*Debbie's Avatar
Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
resU deretsigeR
Location: Anglesey
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,252
Mein Auto: Leaf Tekna
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjoez View Post
Risking a biased response here but here goes anyway
I'm buying a new car soon (either mercedes or bmw)

Any feedback appreciated
Get the BMW.

Recent MB reliability has been terrible.
__________________
The models and equipment (standard and optional) illustrated in this post reflect my misunderstanding of vehicles supplied by BMW AG to the German market. In other EU member states, the truthyness of my posts may vary. Please ignore this post. Subject to change.

Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 03-09-2009 at 03:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-08-2009, 02:39 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, north shore (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,979
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by e36m34life View Post
Not sure which motors are technically better, but I definitely prefer BMW motors.

My brother owned an 02 E320, and my sister owned an 05 E500 and although for the most part they were good cars, they were very boring to drive and the motors were no where near as smooth or silky as BMW motors.
The straight six design is the best motor technically. It is inherently a perfectly balanced design.
__________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- Geo. Orwell

2006 330i Sonora w/ ActiveAutoWerke flash tune :-)
2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
2000 328i TiAg - gone but not forgotten

** Join the BMW CCA www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!! **
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-08-2009, 06:02 PM
Hans Delbruck's Avatar
Hans Delbruck Hans Delbruck is offline
Loves all cars
Location: SoCal
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 347
Mein Auto: C63, 135i & some others
They both make great engines - it just depends on what you're looking for. I prefer the torque of my AMG 6.2l to the Hi-revving 4.0l in the M3.

As far as quality of the cars goes, yeah it IS "open and shut." BMW has been slipping, going below average in JD Power's 2008 Initial Quality study. MB has learned from its mistakes and is now near the top.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2008063


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-08-2009, 08:21 PM
tturedraider's Avatar
tturedraider tturedraider is offline
Freedom isn't free!!
Location: Chicago, north shore (via Tennessee & Texas)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 14,979
Mein Auto: '06 Sonora/Beige 330i :-)
And in the April Consumer Reports Car Issue ranking of long term reliability (as opposed to initial quality - problems within the first 90 days of ownership) BMW ranks just a hair below average and Merc ranks about 30% below average. Consumer Reports gives BMW and Merc an overall score of 72 on performance in their tests, but recommends 83% of the cars BMW makes and only 67% of those Merc makes due to sub-par reliability. They rate BMW reliability overall as average and Merc as below average.
__________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- Geo. Orwell

2006 330i Sonora w/ ActiveAutoWerke flash tune :-)
2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
2000 328i TiAg - gone but not forgotten

** Join the BMW CCA www.bmwcca.org
member #388003 - Use me as a referral & you could win a one day ///M Driving School!! **

Last edited by tturedraider; 03-09-2009 at 02:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-09-2009, 03:10 AM
Adi's Avatar
Adi Adi is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Hamburg, Germany
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Mein Auto: E38 750iL, A6 (4f) Avant
fatjoez

Not sure on what evidence you base your conclusions about technical improvement. I'm not trying to say BMW or Mercedes is better but looking at your figures, BMW has improved power with no changes to CO2 or MPG. Merc improved both power and CO2 but at the cost of MPG.

My anecdotal evidence suggest Merc makes more robust engines. In 2nd-hand ads here in Germany the high-milers are always C- or E-class Merc diesels (300-400K Kms regularly seen).

I own 2 older BMWs and have had Merc C and Es in the past. They're just different cars. My personal experience has been good with diesel engines from both manufacturers and mixed with petrol (gas) engines.

Where Merc has irritated me in the past is with servicing. Both parts costs and the service department mentaility have not been as good as BMW.

I'd say take both cars out for test drives and see which feels best to you.
__________________
*
Audi A6 Quattro Avant (2007) - Oyster Gray Met.
E38 750iL (1995) - Cosmos Schwarz
*

Sign by Danasoft - Get Your Free Sign

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-09-2009, 03:47 AM
Andrew*Debbie's Avatar
Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
resU deretsigeR
Location: Anglesey
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,252
Mein Auto: Leaf Tekna
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post

As far as quality of the cars goes, yeah it IS "open and shut." BMW has been slipping, going below average in JD Power's 2008 Initial Quality study.

No question that MB has show improvement in the quality of cars coming off the line.

But the IQS numbers are only for the first 90 days. I'd be much more concerned about the 2 year reliablity and on those MB is still not doing well.


On the other hand MINI shouldn't be at down at the bottom of the IQS chart. BMW needs to have a look at what is going on at Plant Oxford.
__________________
The models and equipment (standard and optional) illustrated in this post reflect my misunderstanding of vehicles supplied by BMW AG to the German market. In other EU member states, the truthyness of my posts may vary. Please ignore this post. Subject to change.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-09-2009, 07:51 PM
bmdubs4 bmdubs4 is offline
Registered User
Location: jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3
Mein Auto: 328ci standard
once bmw turbocharges the M classes then i believe theyll have the superior engines...if they dont already
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:02 PM
Araq44's Avatar
Araq44 Araq44 is offline
I need a drink
Location: South Beach, Miami Fl
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,082
Send a message via AIM to Araq44
Mein Auto: mobile
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgelessM3 View Post
This is a write up I did a few months ago I hope this will help.






so I went and test drove new cars last week. first i went to mercedes just to go see what those people are talking about. most mercedes owners think there cars a better than BMW this was not the case. first i test drove a new 2008 c240. don't really want to talk about the car because it was such a piece i took it right back. so the next car i drove was the famous SLK AMG 55. This car looked sick with it 400 + horsepower V8. I will tell you the truth I was excited to drive it.
So I took it out. I left the dealer in normal automatic sport mode. i drove it like this till i got used to driving it. after a little bit i switch it to the paddle shifter. let me tell you what a joke those things were worthless. shift took about 3second after pushing the buttons. i couldn't belive that a car that cost this much would lage so bad.
Next on the list was to go to BMW. I pulled in and saw a bunch of 3series sedans. I took out the new 335 twin turbo six sedan. the car was ok the motor was nice. the car did sound awsome when I down shifted when it bipped the throttle. Next on the list was a 2002 M built 540. I know these cars really well becuase my girl has a 530. so i've allway loved how they ride. took out brought it right back. for some reason the car has zero power. so finally I got to the 135i auto with sort paddles. god this car was off the hook. this was the first car I had driving which actually handled and had the same amount of power as my E36 M3. shifting the car was like playing a video game fast and instant.
I brought the car back 20minutes later with a big smile on my face. then I heard how much they were asking for the car 49,000$ wow that's alot. so Before I left I had to drive the 6speed manual. I took the car out and right away I could feel that i had hella controll of it compared to the paddle shifters.
long story shory 2009 135i twin turbo 6 is one sick car. if you have a chance to drive one do it it a blast

I had an identical day as you not to long ago. The new C series is a good looking car but I felt like I was in a accord.

I love the new 135 Manual, just can't justify the money in this economy. No raises at my office and the perception would be bad if I froze money but drove up in a new car.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:04 PM
BadgelessM3 BadgelessM3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: bay area
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 182
Mein Auto: 97-M3 02-530
That's why I bought another E36 M3. I couldn't see spending 45,000$ on a car when I got my M3 for 5500$
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw, engine, mercedes, power, reliability


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > General BMW
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms