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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:24 PM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
rick69cam
Location: Blaine, wa
 
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What does tranny code P0741 mean?

Bought an 01 530i with a 5sp ZF tranny. Sport and luxury package. Man does it drive nice. Then it pulled a P0741 code during a 100 mile cruise. "Torgue convertor clutch circuit performance or stuck off" is what it says in my "Innovi" code reader book. Hmm. 85,000 miles. Figured I better at least change the tranny oil. Did that using the VW tranny oil and a Napa tranny filter. Tranny worked perfect for a couple of days then the code came back after I was driving about 50 miles from home. I was going down an overpass and just started to accerlerate up a hill and the code flashed. WTF!. I thought if I gave the tranny an oil change it would treat me right. The tranny feels perfect. It shifts perfect.
I'm planning to go on a 3000 mile vacation in May. Will it make it? Do I need to put a piece of black tape over the "check engine light" or do I need to worry? Help!
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  #2  
Old 03-24-2009, 05:43 AM
KTrostel KTrostel is offline
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Basically this is telling you that the torque converter lock up feature is not working. The price you pay is increased RPMs and fuel consumption at highway speeds. I BELIEVE there is a solenoid valve responsible for shunting trans fluid to the torque converter clutch at the proper time to achieve lockup. Most likely this solenoid valve is clogged, stuck,...

If you already dropped the pan to replace the filter (Im guessing) the solenoid valve in questions should be right there, at least it is on American auto trans. Time to check out your repair manual.
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  #3  
Old 03-24-2009, 11:34 AM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
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Location: Blaine, wa
 
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Well, I guess I need to drop the pan again. I do have a shop manual. I better start studying up. Thanks for the info. I did notice 6 solenoids in a row on the back of the trans. At least I'll have 90% of the oil changed then.
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2009, 06:21 PM
AlpineWhite530i AlpineWhite530i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick69cam View Post
Well, I guess I need to drop the pan again. I do have a shop manual. I better start studying up. Thanks for the info. I did notice 6 solenoids in a row on the back of the trans. At least I'll have 90% of the oil changed then.
Any luck with figuring out what this is?
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  #5  
Old 03-30-2009, 09:02 PM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
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Location: Blaine, wa
 
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Not yet. Still a little depressed to spend good money and find the car has issues. Seems to shift perfect but still get the code after cruising awhile. I'll drive it for a couple more weeks then I'll replace the torque convertor solonoid and hope that fixes it (tranny oil is 16 bucks a liter times 7). Kinda sucks though. I hope that fixes it. A tranny and torgue convertor will probably cost 3 grand.
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  #6  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:00 PM
AlpineWhite530i AlpineWhite530i is offline
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I'm pulling the same code with an auto tranny. I had the fluid flushed cause my indy thought that it would clear up the stuck solenoid, but no luck, the code came back a week after the flush. Now I gotta figure out how much it'll cost to fix it.

The car still drives like a dream. Any idea on how much an auto to manual swap will run?
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  #7  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:04 PM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
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Location: Blaine, wa
 
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Looks like it's a bad torque converter. About 1200 bucks at the stealer. I have Transtar Ind. Inc looking into a rebuild cost. I'll change it out myself. I'll let ya know if it fixes it.
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2009, 04:33 PM
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1BADBM 1BADBM is offline
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Anything yet?
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2009, 10:04 PM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
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Location: Blaine, wa
 
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Repairs made

Just finished repairs today. Ended up pulling transmission and sending torque convertor to OER Convertors in Port Orchard, Wa to replace a bad seal in the convertor. They say they do these often. Hmmm. Cost was 256 bucks for repairing my convertor plus more 5 more quarts of the 14 dollar a liter tranny oil. Probably 500 bucks total. Lots of work but worth it.
While I was under there, I replaced the transmission pump seal (input shaft seal), both exhaust gaskets and nuts (one time use), rear drive shaft connection gasket and the fuel filter. I bought those parts at Pelican. They do get the right parts to me in a hurry.
If you do this remember to dump a quart of oil in the convertor before putting on the tranny.
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2009, 09:04 PM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BADBM View Post
Anything yet?
Just a note to say all is well with the tranny/converter now. Just got back from a 3000 mile trip to Colorado. No issues. Car averaged just over 27 mpg while cruising at least 5 over all the speed limits. Not as good (or as fast) as my C5 but much quieter ride.
My biggest issue was the starter removal. What a PITA. I thought the motor needed to be supported from behind (like a Chevy V-8) but the BMW motor tilts forward. This put the starter alignment pin in a bind. Hopefully I don't have to do this again but if I do it will be much easier.
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2009, 09:09 PM
rick69cam rick69cam is offline
rick69cam
Location: Blaine, wa
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTrostel View Post
Basically this is telling you that the torque converter lock up feature is not working. The price you pay is increased RPMs and fuel consumption at highway speeds. I BELIEVE there is a solenoid valve responsible for shunting trans fluid to the torque converter clutch at the proper time to achieve lockup. Most likely this solenoid valve is clogged, stuck,...

If you already dropped the pan to replace the filter (Im guessing) the solenoid valve in questions should be right there, at least it is on American auto trans. Time to check out your repair manual.
Thanks for getting me on the right track. The seal replacement in the converter was the culprit. The solinoid was sending fluid the the clutch plates but the seal was letting the fluid pressure leak back. Converter locks up great (27 mpg on a 3000 mile trip).
Hopefully it'll run for awhile now.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2009, 09:44 AM
jayee_2003 jayee_2003 is offline
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I just wanted to say Thanks for the follow up to this and show appreciation for everyone’s input to the issue. My 5 just threw this code. This thread seems to be the most informative on the issue. I reset it for now and will see if it will if it will return.
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2009, 09:31 AM
jayee_2003 jayee_2003 is offline
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Chalk up another one for Torque Convertor seal. Good thing for CPO warranty. Wonder if this will resurface in 50K miles.
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  #14  
Old 08-07-2009, 02:27 PM
dxsuppap dxsuppap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick69cam View Post
Thanks for getting me on the right track. The seal replacement in the converter was the culprit. The solinoid was sending fluid the the clutch plates but the seal was letting the fluid pressure leak back. Converter locks up great (27 mpg on a 3000 mile trip).
Hopefully it'll run for awhile now.
That's great that you were able to fix it! I have the same problem.

Could you tell me exactly what seal was leaking. Is it an internal seal within the torque converter or is it the shaft seal on the torque converter?

Thanks,
Dom
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2009, 08:22 AM
hightek hightek is offline
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throwing PO741 on my 530 too....lasting effect?

It appears I have joined this PO741 club..... Thread post is very informative....tx all

Just started throwing PO741 on my 2003 530i.

63k miles. No other known issues since taking ownership at 32K. Love the ride and looking to keep

Car runs and drives fine other than noticing small decrease in mileage

Local indy shop has pointed out possible TC seal leaking and have researched possible TC solenoid clogging problem. Indy has recommended TC rebuild @ $2500. Seems a little steep from others who have repaired same issue. If I had the special tools needed I would repair myself

Question is.....If this problem is left without repair will it:

1. result in continued increase in deterioration of mileage
2. cause any deterioration of the tranny fluid thus causing damage to tranny
3. create any other damaging effects to the tranny

Looking to repair as soon as possible just wondering what kind of time I have.
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2009, 03:10 PM
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davenotize davenotize is offline
03 530 S/P for sale!!
Location: Miami FL
 
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Mein Auto: 03 bmw 530s/p 02 bmw 525
hello there! it looks like im in for the P0741 too.....oh man im in love with the car its an 03 530i but its draining me big time, $2500 doesnt sound good to me at all. CES light came on yesterday and today got the news on the P0741.....
is it possible that its something other than the issues posted above?
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2010, 10:03 PM
sincitybimmer sincitybimmer is offline
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P0741 alternative fix!!!

I too recently got this code which prevented me from passing a smog test. I just recently paid over $8k for a 2002 e39 with 88k miles and just wasn't ready to shell out more clams before I was able to register the car. But just as fate would have it I was referred to a former BMW mechanic who worked out of his home. THIS CATS A GENIUS!!!

Prior to having him look at the car the stealorship told the previous owner that the torque converter was bad. Not fully convinced (because the car drove soooo smooth) I took it to a reputable indy who re-set the the error code and told me to complete a drive cycle of about 50 miles which if the code didn't return I was good to go get a smog test.....well just shy of 47 miles the SES light came back on...like dammnn!!! I just bought a f!*!n lemon!!!

In comes Edgar (my new best male friend / MNBMF)....he did say there is a service notice out for the seal inside the torque converter for this model car....but he said let's go another route prior to assuming it's the TC seal leak.

So here's the alternative fix:
To go thru a specific drive cycle in which the cars computer will have to "re-learn" all the diagnostics of the cars emissions systems and eventually and hopefully permanently remove the dreaded P0741 code. This drive cycle had nothing to do with going a certain number of miles after a RESET. The drive cycle is very specific and can't really go into much details here but I do have the print out of the drive cycle if you guys want to go this route. You will need a laptop and OBDII connection and a scanner program (sorry don't remember the program he was running). The drive cycle basically mirrored stop and go traffic situation which will cause the emissions to get tested fully, then followed by an engine cooling down phase. Once the car cools down then the car has to clear 1 of 2 more codes before the code re-sets and off to the smog station.
---Sure enough I passed my smog test today. And so far after almost 50 miles of driving no SES light. But for now I can put my mind at ease knowing I don't need to shell out bucko clams just to pass a damm $20 smog test.---Keep in mind Edgar says there is a possiblity it could come back and if so then will need to re-visit the TC seal leak.
****If anyone knows OER Converters phone number please post...I can't seem to find them doing a google search****Hope this helps and will keep y'all posted!
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2010, 04:05 PM
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gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
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torque converter lock up clutch seal SIB

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ighlight=p0741 Post #6
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2010, 06:47 PM
dxsuppap dxsuppap is offline
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It's been awhile since I looked back at this thread. I finally fixed my 2001 330CIC (with the P0741 code) this Spring. Here is some info that may help others:

- The issue is the torque converter internal clutch seal failing. This can't be fixed by other than replacing the torque converter.
- I bought a ZF factory rebuilt torque converter from Eriksson Industries in Old Saybrook, CT. They are a ZF factory authorized distributor with an internet site. The converter was about $300.
- The transmission has to be removed. A real bitch. A lift would help, but I did it by jacking the car onto 6 ton 24" high jack stands. The engine has to be tilted back and a lot of stuff has to be removed from the bottom. The top transmission bolts are very hard to get at without the right tools. You can't reach them from the sides. You have to reach them from the rear using about 2+ ft of socket extension, and the bolts are external torx sockets. You have to be careful not to strip the torx heads during removal or the game is over. All this was no fun in about 24" of space under the car. I am very methodical and slow and it took me over 30 hours to do this job. And the repair manual was extremely important - I couldn't have done the job without it.
-Though BMW recommends ESSO fluid, I used Valvoline MaxLife ATF at $3.50 a qt vs $16! This is certified to be a fully compatible replacement by Valvoline.
- I have about 2500 miles on the car since the repair. It shifts beautifully and the gas mileage is back up (26-27 mpg in easy touring drives vs about 23-24 before). At 2000 RPM my speed registers about 57.5 mph with the converter locked.
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  #20  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:40 PM
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Hooray! Hooray! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxsuppap View Post
It's been awhile since I looked back at this thread. I finally fixed my 2001 330CIC (with the P0741 code) this Spring. Here is some info that may help others:

- The issue is the torque converter internal clutch seal failing. This can't be fixed by other than replacing the torque converter.
- I bought a ZF factory rebuilt torque converter from Eriksson Industries in Old Saybrook, CT. They are a ZF factory authorized distributor with an internet site. The converter was about $300.
- The transmission has to be removed. A real bitch. A lift would help, but I did it by jacking the car onto 6 ton 24" high jack stands. The engine has to be tilted back and a lot of stuff has to be removed from the bottom. The top transmission bolts are very hard to get at without the right tools. You can't reach them from the sides. You have to reach them from the rear using about 2+ ft of socket extension, and the bolts are external torx sockets. You have to be careful not to strip the torx heads during removal or the game is over. All this was no fun in about 24" of space under the car. I am very methodical and slow and it took me over 30 hours to do this job. And the repair manual was extremely important - I couldn't have done the job without it.
-Though BMW recommends ESSO fluid, I used Valvoline MaxLife ATF at $3.50 a qt vs $16! This is certified to be a fully compatible replacement by Valvoline.
- I have about 2500 miles on the car since the repair. It shifts beautifully and the gas mileage is back up (26-27 mpg in easy touring drives vs about 23-24 before). At 2000 RPM my speed registers about 57.5 mph with the converter locked.
Interesting, I'm getting a code 48 TC clutch slip... about to do 3x valvoline maxlife refills but suspect I have the tear too. I hate to monkey with 'tilting' up the motor and dropping the transmission, sounds like a good way to get other non-related issues due to screwing around with 8 year old plastic, rubber and connections. I spoke with a ZF expert, www.dosebmw.com in CA and he said you probably wont hurt anything running it the way I am... mine appears to still lock up, just slipping a little on the engagement... hoping an ATF swap covers things. Regarding the SES light sequence, you have to go through three complete start, warm up, shut engine off cycles before the SES turns on, you can do that in three 10 mile runs (30 miles) or three 100 mile (300 miles) trips... I did a few tests and sure enough, 3x is the charm, system must go from cold to op temp, then back to cold to "cycle"... now wondering what the 741 code is vs. the 48... hmmm more to ponder on this one. : (
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  #21  
Old 07-02-2010, 03:57 AM
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gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
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If memory serves me correct, 48 is the code that carsoft spits out. I noticed that when mine was slipping the fluid was getting dirty with clutch debris. At some point, since it is slipping the clutch material will be gone and it will be metal on metal.
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  #22  
Old 07-02-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
If memory serves me correct, 48 is the code that carsoft spits out. I noticed that when mine was slipping the fluid was getting dirty with clutch debris. At some point, since it is slipping the clutch material will be gone and it will be metal on metal.
Code 48 is out of Bavarian Technic who claims to just repeat the BMW code, wonder why the codes would be different. If I run it as is, I assume it will slip worse and worse before the material is gone and I get metal on metal contact, wouldn't I? Also, BMW checked the fluid level when they reflashed the trans CPU with newer code in an attempt to repair and they said it looked clean... go figure.
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2010, 07:13 PM
carsoncars carsoncars is offline
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i am pulling a p0741 on my 2003 530, is there a way to know if it is the torque converter or solonoid, i cannot tell any difference in the cars shifting etc, runs great as ever-thanks
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  #24  
Old 07-08-2010, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carsoncars View Post
i am pulling a p0741 on my 2003 530, is there a way to know if it is the torque converter or solonoid, i cannot tell any difference in the cars shifting etc, runs great as ever-thanks
Same with mine, test is find a long flat stretch of highway with a known uphill at the end, set your cruise for 80mph and you should be running about 2600/2650 rpms, when you start up the uphill, you will feel the TC unlock and rpms will go up about 250 to 2850/2900, then if the road flattens out, rpms should drop to 2600/2650 when the TC locks up again. If the TC seal has the defect, it will "slip" in and out of lock up. Mine still locks up but it is only 95% transparent (smooth). The ZF tech said do the ATF service (filter) and drain / fill a few times with Valvoline MaxLife (or ESSO/Lifetime) and see where things stand. Steve at www.dosebmw.com said $1800 if you were in southern CA for a rebuilt TC replacement with a two year trans warranty or change the ATF and run it, wont hurt anything as long as it is shifting ok, once it completely fails to lock up the TC, gas mileage will drop from 29mpg to 24mpg due to extra rpms. There are several other causes, solenoids, ATF, I've even heard MAF sensor can throw the trans off?! I'm starting with the ATF.
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  #25  
Old 07-08-2010, 06:36 AM
carsoncars carsoncars is offline
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thanks for info hooray, i will proceed with tests-carson, if anyone else has info please post.
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