Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:14 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25,236
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
What is your state law on buyer or seller responsibility for SES/CEL & smog tests?

Edit: Change the question, as per E36_phantom in post #2 below, to more about the seller's specific legal responsibility.
Edit: Further generalized the question, as per Edjacks' comments in post #3 to cover both smog and the SES light.


A newbie post today, on buying a bimmer with the SES lit, made me think that a lot of bimmers are now being sold to clueless newbies, many of whom couldn't afford our bimmers when we bought them, and who don't know the law in their states with respect to check engine lights and passing emissions tests.

Given that, I open this new thread for now, and for the future, so that we may reference the law for all states with respect to the one question:

Q: What is your state law regarding the buyers or sellers responsibility for SES lights or passing a smog check when the car is bought/sold?

Here's a snippet from the California BAR smog check FAQ:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	california_smog_check_bar_who_responsible.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	90.6 KB
ID:	453452  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf california_bar_smog_check_faq.pdf (213.4 KB, 6 views)
__________________
Please read the suggested threads and add value, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 07-23-2014 at 12:26 PM. Reason: OLD TITLE: In what states is it illegal to sell a vehicle with a Check Engine Light (SES / CEL)?
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:38 AM
E36 Phantom's Avatar
E36 Phantom E36 Phantom is offline
I Am The Machine
Location: Somewhere Between The Valley & The Bay
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,720
Mein Auto: Dreier, Fünfer & Siebener
I don't know where you heard that, but in California it is NOT illegal to sell a car with the CEL/SES lit. In addition, the seller can sell without a smog certificate if it's in the sales contract.

C:\>Sent from my 386 using MS-DOS__
__________________
// Chad //
// 2001 BMW 740i M-Sport // 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid //
// 1994 Land Rover Range Rover Classic // 1999 Chevy Tahoe //
// 2009 Kawasaki Concours 14 // 2006 Kawasaki Ninja 250 //




Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimKlim View Post
You're a derbanana
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:47 AM
edjack edjack is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Jose, CA
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 10,987
Mein Auto: '97 540i 6 speed
However, the car must have a current smog cert to be registered, whether the seller or buyer obtains it.
__________________


Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

Last edited by edjack; 07-23-2014 at 10:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:54 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25,236
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 Phantom View Post
I don't know where you heard that, but in California it is NOT illegal to sell a car with the CEL/SES lit.
That's a good point, that a car might have been smogged yesterday, and then today, when you sell it, it might have a check engine light, so, I changed the original question to be more general about the seller's responsibility, instead of specifically about the check engine light. (thanks for pointing that out).

REVISED QUESTION:
What is your state law regarding the buyers or sellers responsibility for passing a smog check when the car is bought/sold?
ORIGINAL QUESTION:
In what states is it illegal to sell a vehicle with a Check Engine Light (SES / CEL)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 Phantom View Post
In addition, the seller can sell without a smog certificate if it's in the sales contract.
Actually, at least in California, there is (apparently) no legal provision for an 'As is' sale, at least according to how I interpret the information in the attached document:
- California Smog Check and Emissions FAQ
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	california_as_is.jpg
Views:	263
Size:	110.9 KB
ID:	453428   Click image for larger version

Name:	california_older.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	115.3 KB
ID:	453430  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf California_Smog_Check_Emissions_FAQ.pdf (213.0 KB, 21 views)
__________________
Please read the suggested threads and add value, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 07-23-2014 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-23-2014, 11:12 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25,236
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by edjack View Post
However, the car must have a current smog cert to be registered, whether the seller or buyer obtains it.
That's another good point, which I will reflect in the OP (to save people time and to make the answers more generally useful to others) by making it a more general question.
Q: What is your state law regarding the buyers or sellers responsibility for SES lights or passing a smog check when the car is bought/sold?

It looks like that "current smog cert" means within the last 90 days; so I wonder what the law says for the specific case of a current (within 90 days) smog certificate, but an existing check engine light (or pending codes) at the time of sale?

Again, from the California BAR smog check FAQ:


EDIT: Interestingly, they repealed the rolling provision for vehicles 30 years old, so, under current law, the E39 needs to pass smog, forever!

Those reading this thread 30 years from now, take heed of what your bimmer used to get by way of emissions results:
- Compendium of official emission tests results for the BMW E39 over time (1)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	california_bar_smog_check_90_days.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	146.6 KB
ID:	453454   Click image for larger version

Name:	repeal.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	235.4 KB
ID:	453461  
__________________
Please read the suggested threads and add value, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 07-23-2014 at 12:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-23-2014, 11:37 AM
Fudman's Avatar
Fudman Fudman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sudbury, MA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,535
Mein Auto: '02 530i Sport auto
Here in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, it is not illegal to sell a car with a CEL or any other defect. That is strictly between the buyer and the seller. However, if the new owner registers the car, they have 7 days to obtain a vehicle inspection (done at gas stations). The inspection covers safety and emissions requirements. Having a CEL will cause you to fail an inspection. However, MA has a Lemon-Aid law, which allows a buyer to return the car to the seller if the repairs needed to pass inspection exceed 10% of the purchase price.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-23-2014, 12:12 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25,236
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
they have 7 days to obtain a vehicle inspection (done at gas stations).
So, does that mean in the m'chu-chu state (old joke my parents told me what I said when I was a kid), that every single car bought, has to be inspected within a week (even if it had recently passed inspection prior to the sale)?
__________________
Please read the suggested threads and add value, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-23-2014, 02:16 PM
crowz's Avatar
crowz crowz is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Alabama
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,755
Mein Auto: 2000 323i, 97 528i
In alabama if its not stolen and the seller owns it out right you just passed all the requirements to sell it to someone
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:18 PM
Fudman's Avatar
Fudman Fudman is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sudbury, MA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,535
Mein Auto: '02 530i Sport auto
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
every single car bought, has to be inspected within a week (even if it had recently passed inspection prior to the sale)?
...After the car is registered & receives plates. If the car is not registered, it can be in any condition nor does it require an inspection. While the RMV requires inspection within 7 days after registration, if the car was bought in-state and the previous inspection sticker is still valid, it should be good to go (How will anyone know?) until it expires. An out of state purchase needs an in-state inspection sticker
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-29-2015, 10:47 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 25,236
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
More and more E39s are being sold with the bifecta or trifecta, so, it behooves us to list what the law is (specifically for California, which I believes makes it illegal to sell a car with the cluster lights lit).

This thread, opened today, is just such one California owner:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Abs control unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnnnnnyy View Post
I'm in California , & the dmv made me get a lights & brake test but I failed my brake test only cause the abs light was on .
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnnnnnyy View Post
Since I have gotten it no I'm not sure but it seems to me everything is all original with no repairs but I could be wrong, & I can ask them but I'm not in that area anymore it's like a 30 minute drive . Should I just take it into consideration & buy the control unit ? I really need the light to turn off so I can get my tags
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnnnnnyy View Post

I just recently went to the bmw shop & they told me I need a new abs control unit & it'll be cheaper to order it online,

The problem is I don't know were to order it & if it needs to be brand new to turn off my abs light ? Can someone help me & also show me what they might look like so I know exactly what to order cause every time I search it up on eBay a few different things pop up ? I have a 528i , year is a 99 .


EDIT: I found the thread by typing /smog f3 in the bestlinks - but this isn't a CEL (it's a different error):
- What states make it illegal to sell a car "as is" that won't pass smog or that have an SES/CEL light lit at the time of sale (1)
__________________
Please read the suggested threads and add value, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
buying bmw, buying car, california smog check, check engine light, law, legal, selling bmw, selling car, service engine soon, ses, smog check


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms