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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #401  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:35 AM
guardodoc guardodoc is offline
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Classic

I recommend you for the ABS rebuild.
Just crack it open and see if you can fix it.
Then go on down to the dealer and order a new one.
And have them install it.
Please ignore any previous references to Bosch ABS repair services.
And don't waste your time reading this thread. There's really no useful information in it.
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  #402  
Old 05-03-2011, 04:46 AM
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@ jcvara - check your ABS connector for 12vdc and if not, check the ABS relay. If no power, a rebuilt module will not work either.

@ guardodoc - this thread DOES contain useful information if you take it for what it is. This thread provides information, it's not a magic wand! I think you're throwing parts at your car and not following the troubleshooting sequence. With that said, you should probably also replace the pneumatic orbital pressure retainers (POPR's) since they MIGHT affect ABS too.

@ Neversaynever - once you dug the celery stock out of the test ports, did paper clips work for you? Loganwolf used the clips to diagnose a bad L/R wheel sensor for his problem.
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  #403  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:29 AM
guardodoc guardodoc is offline
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sarcasm

I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.
This guy (jcvara) has ignored all the previous advice in this thread and went out and bought all new sensors. Now that didn't work and he's asking how or where to get the abs module rebuilt. All of that has already been referenced in blubees very concise instructions.
At some point, why even help a guy who makes no effort to read the thread or take any advice.
P.S. I fixed my car by following the advice from this thread.
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  #404  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:45 AM
jcvara jcvara is offline
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[QUOTE=guardodoc;6040303]I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.
This guy (jcvara) has ignored all the previous advice in this thread and went out and bought all new sensors. Now that didn't work and he's asking how or where to get the abs module rebuilt. All of that has already been referenced in blubees very concise instructions.
At some point, why even help a guy who makes no effort to read the thread or take any advice.
P.S. I fixed my car by following the advice from this thread.[/QUOTE

I too have found much of this advice helpful as I continue to repair my vehicle but as my problem (bifecta) with the SES, is not the same as the trifecta that most others are refering to them I think I should approach my solution a little differently. I am old school, start with the least expensive parts and work your way up until you remedy the solution. The only reason I am asking where I should get the ABS module rebuilt is because Blubee did his with ATE and most others recommend BBA Reman. Either way the only contact information available is for BBA. I was hoping to get some more contact information for the others but I've already taken care of it. In case you didnt read Blubees advice that is precisely what he said, It's more than likely going to be the speed sensors or if not the ABS module but thanks for paying so much attention if tahts what you call it. I got your sarcasm and I wasnt impressed. Try to enjoy the rest of your day and uh, stay off the internet after you've been drinking.

P.S. I fixed my car myself (including the ABS module)
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  #405  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcvara View Post
just replaced all 4 wheel sensors but the problems remain ... I guess I'm going for the ABS module next
I'm sure the sponsors thank you. In a rather draconian way, you 'are' traversing the recommended diagnostic tree ... namely, first 'eliminate' the four wheel speed sensors as the problem, then consider your ABS control module repair options. Personally, I would have just tested the sensors, and, if I couldn't get the test to work, I would have bought better equipment with the money ... but that's just me.

With the wheel speed sensors 'eliminated' as a culprit, here are your ABS control module repair options, as I see it:
  1. Buy a new one (approximately $480 from Jared at ECSTuning, + $85-$100 VIN coding fee)
  2. Buy a used one (+ VIN recode fee if not close enough to the original vehicle)
  3. Pay the rebuilders (prices quoted in this thread are anywhere from $105 to $300 depending on whom you choose)
  4. Fix it yourself (free, but only an option for the elite with good equipment and extensive sensitive-electronic-repair experience)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcvara View Post
I have it removed but how do you open it up?
That's covered in Bill's ABS autopsy thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcvara View Post
Whom do you all recommend for the ABS module rebuild?
Simply consider the top three most-recommended rebuilders - in order of customer service and in reverse order of price, namely BBA, MM, and ATE. Contact information is in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guardodoc View Post
Bosch ABS repair services.
Two years ago, when I contemplated the repair, the main three were BBA/MM/ATE (since shown to be in that order by preference).

Maybe the next person faced with a rebuild can do the research to see if we should also add Bosch to the most-recommended short list?

Last edited by bluebee; 05-03-2011 at 11:32 PM.
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  #406  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleetman View Post
@ guardodoc - this thread DOES contain useful information
Hi Fleetman,

Guardodoc was employing succinct wit to subtly express his concern about the approach taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleetman View Post
@ jcvara - check your ABS connector for 12vdc
Since a small subset of users seem to have trouble getting 'any' reading, it would benefit them for us to flesh out this DMM-troubleshooting technique.

Quote:
check that you are making a connection at the ABS connector (meaning your "test" leads are ok to use) is to probe for 12vdc at ports, 2, 3, 6 or 7 (switch your DMM to DCv) along with a good, known ground....
I'm a bit confused about power.

May I ask where the power is coming from?

Normally the ignition is off when we do the diode & resistance tests. Does this DC voltage-lead-tester doublecheck require that the ignition switch be in the 'on' position?

BTW, Fleetman is aware of this but I post for the diagnostic record that LoganWolf, in this thread today, also had problems with his readings:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > 2000 540i BRAKE, ABS, and DSC lights on, HELP!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoganWolf View Post
1. The new DMM I bought was bad. Took it back and exchanged it for a different one, also bad. Got a third one and guess what, third time is a charm.
2. Used paper clips instead of wire.
3. ABS-connector pins 13,29 read 500-600mV. Left rear wheel sensor bad. That's my guess. Going to replace it tomorrow. Found it locally for $72.
Will let you know how it worked out.
In hindsight, it seems that a small percentage of users have problems getting 'any' readings from the wheel speed sensors at the ABS control module, so, the combined set of reasons why might be:
  • Bad DMM
  • Bad test leads (particularly not thin enough wires)
  • Bad technique (wrong holes or not sticking the probes in far enough)

Last edited by bluebee; 05-03-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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  #407  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:52 AM
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Yeah....I missed the sarcasm....went right over my head....definitely my bad and my apologies guardodoc. I assumed you were attacking this thread and I reacted when I shouldn't have. As punishment I'll let the air out of my own POPR's....deal? Consider me shut upped!

@ Bluebee - it seems I always leave out a small detail huh? Yes, the power check must be made with the ignition on....again, my bad. Port #7 would probably be the best to test at since it has the same size ports as the wheel sensor test ports.

I sure wish I had the energy (and money) to simply throw parts at a repair starting with the least expensive part and progressing to the most expensive....shoot, I wish I had access to his trashcan if he's throwing all the old parts away! I work on heavy equipment all day (I don't actually work on it anymore but I watch over others who do) and we troubleshoot every failure very thoroughly because we don't want to just throw parts at a repair....gets VERY expensive VERY quickly. Plus, sometimes, you can replace a part and it will appear to be repaired but if the root cause of the failure has not been addressed, the part will fail again, and again, and again, etc., etc., etc.
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  #408  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:12 PM
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Don't wheel speed sensors cost ~$100 each?
Isn't an ABS module rebuild - even after the latest price increases - less than $200?

By my math that's ~$400 spent when it could have been half that...?
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For me, the e39 is the ... best balance of luxury ... performance ... good looks and class. Sort of the Catherine Deneuve of cars, if you get my drift.
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  #409  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:57 PM
jcvara jcvara is offline
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Look, I didnt go read the whole 400+ posts in this thread. I only troubleshoot 1 item at a time and I think I speak for a majority of people who are looking for assistance in an online forum. If its not relevant, I'm not interested in its content. Yes, I went back and read things that were pertinent to the problem I was having but there is some conflicting advise. Usually, things change. Other service providers become available and others burn their bridges. I was only looking for the most up to date information available. I had no way of knowing how to contact ATE or MM. I only had what was in the post that I was reading. I feel like working, I take my laptop outside with me and I start working and looking for information that is relevant to the issue at hand. Simple. All this other kiddy stuff is for the birds. I'm sorry you ALL feel so offended by my questions. That's just how I operate 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. Your information is extremely helpful but the sarcasm isnt necessary but get it off your chest. I hope you feel better now. Thanks again, and enjoy life. No need to be so uptight.
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  #410  
Old 05-03-2011, 12:59 PM
jcvara jcvara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent15 View Post
Don't wheel speed sensors cost ~$100 each?
Isn't an ABS module rebuild - even after the latest price increases - less than $200?

By my math that's ~$400 spent when it could have been half that...?
you must pay retail.
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  #411  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jcvara View Post
you must pay retail.
I don't, but most of the rest of the folks on this forum do so we generally talk about pricing as it pertains to the masses.
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For me, the e39 is the ... best balance of luxury ... performance ... good looks and class. Sort of the Catherine Deneuve of cars, if you get my drift.
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  #412  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:13 PM
guardodoc guardodoc is offline
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[QUOTE=jcvara;6040338]
Quote:
Originally Posted by guardodoc View Post
I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.
This guy (jcvara) has ignored all the previous advice in this thread and went out and bought all new sensors. Now that didn't work and he's asking how or where to get the abs module rebuilt. All of that has already been referenced in blubees very concise instructions.
At some point, why even help a guy who makes no effort to read the thread or take any advice.
P.S. I fixed my car by following the advice from this thread.[/QUOTE

I too have found much of this advice helpful as I continue to repair my vehicle but as my problem (bifecta) with the SES, is not the same as the trifecta that most others are refering to them I think I should approach my solution a little differently. I am old school, start with the least expensive parts and work your way up until you remedy the solution. The only reason I am asking where I should get the ABS module rebuilt is because Blubee did his with ATE and most others recommend BBA Reman. Either way the only contact information available is for BBA. I was hoping to get some more contact information for the others but I've already taken care of it. In case you didnt read Blubees advice that is precisely what he said, It's more than likely going to be the speed sensors or if not the ABS module but thanks for paying so much attention if tahts what you call it. I got your sarcasm and I wasnt impressed. Try to enjoy the rest of your day and uh, stay off the internet after you've been drinking.

P.S. I fixed my car myself (including the ABS module)
jcvara
My apologies. You are right, no need for sarcasm.
Do tell. What was wrong with your abs module and how did you fix it yourself ?
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  #413  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:35 PM
jcvara jcvara is offline
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Not sure youre being serious but I will tell. I removed the module, gently sawed the front and sides (but not the back) with a fine hacksaw. Opened it up like a shell, removed saw debris and then gel with a set of tweezers. Was able to find one of the silver wires in the back disconnected just like in one of the illustrations provided by Blubee. Note: if you tilt the board to the side you will clearly see all the "angelhairs" and should be able to avoid them. I was able to clean the area well enough with the tweezers and finished preparation with a eraser tip. With the help of another, I dropped some solder on the loose end and with a set of small needlenose pliers applied it in the solder without affecting anything else on the board, fortunately. Lucky? probably. I agree, my approach lacks technique but what I lack in technique I make up for in patience and determination (and balls).

Pics will be posted later for anyone who could use them.
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  #414  
Old 05-03-2011, 02:39 PM
jcvara jcvara is offline
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BTW, Lights are off and car doesnt die out at 5200 RPM's anymore for whatever its worth.
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  #415  
Old 05-03-2011, 04:00 PM
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Good job then....a little different way to go about the repair in many peoples opinion but you fixed it and no more lights. I salute you sir!
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  #416  
Old 05-08-2011, 01:07 PM
Neversaynever Neversaynever is offline
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Bluebee, Fleetman and the rest of the team of thousands working with this problem, many thanks for your input and patience.
I tried yet again this weekend to test the wheel sensors from the blue ABS block. My results are as follows:
13 and 29 = No reading whatsoever on the meter in diode test mode. Just a 1 reading on the meter LED. Btw, 1 is the default when the probes are not touching anything.
30 and 31 = Same - just solid 1.
28 and 12 = same - nothing but the 1
15 and 16 = activity the meter from 740 fluxuating up to 1569 and jumping all around. Rotating the right front tire didn't really seem to have any effect to the random numbers being displayed.
I am quite comfortable that the meter works and the connections are being made. As I have said previously, the cruise control works fine. Also, I do not think I have a rev limiting issue.
Does anyone have any further thoughts on this? Is is possible to bring the 525 to a shop for the diagnosis only?
Thanks again.
Chris
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  #417  
Old 05-08-2011, 04:17 PM
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@ Neversaynever - I still think you're not making a good connection at the test ports except for possibly the R/F wheel sensor (pins 15/16). Maybe try this....with your meter off and set to Diode Test, insert your port test leads into the respective ports and connect the DMM to the "-" side with the meter still off. Turn your meter on (should read "1") and touch your positive meter lead to the "+" port lead and see if you get a reading. Although I guess it would be possible, the chances of no readings on three wheel sensors is very remote. The Diode Test mode is pretty sensitive depending on the type of meter you have and battery strength of your DMM.

Did you use a "jumbo" paper clip (approx 0.045" diameter) ? I tried a regular paper clip and could not get a good contact.

Also, if you are as convinced as I am that you're not getting a good connection at the test ports, Radio Shack offers different sizes of test leads that you may want to explore. I'm sure a competent shop could diagnose the issue for you as well.....if you go this route though it would probably be helpful to provide Bluebee's DIY you've been following.
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  #418  
Old 05-08-2011, 06:11 PM
Neversaynever Neversaynever is offline
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Thanks Fleet-mon (Jamaican spin). My curiosity is really peeked. I have been using a copper wire (probably 18-20 gauge) which I wrap like a pig's tail around the probe. It has good contact on the probe per the DMM. It also gives a reading for pins 15-16, but nada for the other pairs.
I am not too sure what it is you suggest trying above... You suggest 1. meter off but set to diode test mode, 2. insert both probes into one of the designated pairs of wheel sensor ports (let's say 13,29), 3. "connect the DMM to the "-" side with the meter off" .. I do not know what this means. Maybe you are suggesting only connecting the "-" side probe (29) with the power off then power up the DMM giving a "1" reading (of course as there is no "+" attached at all). Then touch the "+" side to the corresponding port (13) and look for a reading.
If this is the suggestion, this is basically what I have done, except that I have not tried the power on step in the middle of the test.
And I couldn't agree more that the chance of three wheel sensor failures simultaneously is statistically ridiculous. And also, my cruise control works fine. That would be a pretty clear indicator the right rear wheel sensor is just fine. But the right rear sure doesn't give a reading at the test ports (yet!).
Another stupid question: The wheel doesn't need to be turned to get a diode resistance reading does it?
Anyway, I really appreciate the patience and help with this.
NsN
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  #419  
Old 05-09-2011, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversaynever View Post
And I couldn't agree more that the chance of three wheel sensor failures simultaneously is statistically ridiculous
I think everyone agrees, the chances of three bad sensors at once is slim, at best.

Being confused by the recommendation above, I would repeat Fleetman's suggestion of turning the key in the ignition so that the ABS connector is powered (although I don't know which side has power - his test assumes the female side has the power so I'll go with that).

Then figure out (from Fleetman's prior posts) which power and ground pins to test, and make sure you have 12 volts on them using your meter. That will reaffirm the size of your probe is correct and that your probing technique is correct.

Or, take Bill's advice (often given for others with the same problem). Simply run test 1 and test 2 (diode & resistance) at the wheels on the connector to the harness. You still have the thin-wire-probe problem - but it's a wholly different setup (two round holes in the sensor wire connector instead of the sunken square holes of the blue ABS control module connector).

Or, if even that fails, then you 'could' run tests 3,4,5, & 6 as noted in the test post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neversaynever View Post
The wheel doesn't need to be turned to get a diode resistance reading does it?
I'm not sure if you're talking about the 'steering' wheel or the four wheels; but it doesn't matter since the answer is nothing needs to be 'turned' to get a diode or resistance reading.

The only time you need to 'spin' the wheels is when you're doing the square-wave voltage tests 3, 4, and 6 as excerpted below from post #48 of this thread:

Quote:
- TEST 3: If desired spin the wheel at about 1 revolution per second, by hand (the resistance should fluctuate as the wheel spins)
- TEST 4: Switch the DMM into millivolt mode (optional) & again spin the tire & wheel assembly by hand (test-lead polarity won't matter)
- You should read between 1 and 5 mV when you spin the hub (no voltage implicate the sensor or circuit)
- OPTIONAL TESTS BELOW REQUIRE FLYING LEADS WITH THE IGNITION SYSTEM ABS SYSTEM CONNECTED & POWERED UP:
- TEST 5: Switch the DMM into the 10v and attach flying leads to the sensors with the power on
- You should see the voltage going to the sensor and the return signal
- Expect a baseline voltage of about +5 to +12 volts depending on the ABS system (does anyone know this value?)
- Expect that baseline voltage to the sensor to change (by how much?) as you spin the wheels
- TEST 6: Hook an oscilloscope with "flying leads" to the ABS sensors (notice that the ABS system must be powered)
- You should see nice clean square waves generated as you hand spin the wheels at about 1 revolution per second.
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  #420  
Old 05-09-2011, 04:19 AM
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I tried several different wire leads until I finally stumbled upon one that gave consistent readings, in my case, a jumbo paper clip (0.045").

18 ga. wire = 0.040" and 20 ga. = 0.032". I think the leads are not making contact at this point as you should get a reading other than "over limit or 1" no matter what it may be.

Yes, turn your DMM on once you have connected to the "-" pin. I did not spin my wheels when testing nor is there a need to except as indicated by Bluebee. Make sure you have a good connection not only at the test ports but from the DMM to your test leads.....diode tests can be rather sensitive depending on your meter.

For what it's worth....it frustrated me finding a test lead that worked....tried bread wrapper ties, different wire sizes, etc. until I hit the mark.....repeatable tests showed I was making a good connection every time. However, I think once you establish a good connection with the test port your DMM will work without fail. You are trying to read DMM battery voltage using the diode test and, as in the case of a loose battery cable on your car, a loose/weak connection will affect your test. A diode allows voltage to flow in one direction and blocks it in the other direction.
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  #421  
Old 05-09-2011, 05:56 AM
Neversaynever Neversaynever is offline
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Okay both. Awesome thoughtful help as we all have become accustomed. I'll go after this again. Jumbo paper clips this time.
NsN
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  #422  
Old 05-19-2011, 01:58 PM
Neversaynever Neversaynever is offline
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Me again. Jumbo paper clip was indeed better than my copper wire alternative. But, here's the news: Seems three of the four wheel sensors or sensor circuits are out. The following pictures show the clips in place and the reading on the DMM of "1" no resistance, or another number other than 1 showing some resistance and a functioning circuit.
This shows the DMM and paper clip probes work when touched showing resistance.
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This shows no resistance on pins 30-31
[Click image for larger version

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No resistance on pins 28-12
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No resistance on pins 29-13
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Finally resistance indicated on pins 15-16
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It seems totally unlikely that three wheel sensors failed simulatenously, but apparently that is what has happened. I now will go to each wheel and test the individual sensors if I can figure out how to reach the tiny pins deep in the connection cylinder. If the sensors are working, my problem must be in the wiring or the connector at the wheels.

Wish me luck....
CL
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Last edited by Neversaynever; 05-20-2011 at 08:24 AM. Reason: The relationship of pictures and descriptions were off.
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  #423  
Old 05-20-2011, 12:15 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Sorry Neversaynever for the problems. Yes, it's unlikely that multiple sensors have gone bad. More likely wiring. But, weird things do happen a small percentage of the time. Keep us in the loop on your endeavor.

Speaking of weird things happening, over in this thread today:
- DSC ABS BRAKE Trifecta -> I've tried everything

The OP reported the Indy had trouble recoding the new ABS control module:
Quote:
New module from Bosch put in, doesn't fix issue..

Indy says (and showed me on his GT1) that he is unable to code the Steering Angle Sensor to the new module. The Sensor doesn't want to communicate with the DSC module, same problem the old module had, and therefore cannot be calibrated.

Because of this, he can't finish coding the new DSC Module and can't do the "End Of Road Test" in the GT1 which finalizes installation. Therefore, the trifecta continues. He received a new steering angle sensor and is putting it in now - so we'll see if that fixes it.

The Indy said he has replaced many of these ABS control modules before on ours cars (and other cars that use the same module) and it normally takes 1.5 hours of coding using GT1 and Progman.
Mark then provided this fantastic bit of experienced detail (which, to my knowledge, was not prior noted in this canonical ABS trifecta thread):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark@EAC View Post
Take the car to someone with AUTOLOGIC programming tools... GT1 and Progman are known to have problems programming the module successfully and I have had that same problem myself coding and calibrating the steering angle sensor.

I tried programming with progman for something like 2-3 hours with no luck. This was frustrating and embarrassing since I can generally program anything needed. Bill (540iman) took the car to a shop with autologic and it was done and over with in moments - the trifecta went out and the DSC afterward worked as it should.

I've had guys call me up from the dealership wanting to return these ABS control modules because even the dealer could not code the thing. Send the guy to an Indy with Autologic and they program it without issue. The modules are fully tested by Bosch and it's rare to get a bad one; we have sold hundreds of them - they don't come back.

Proper programming is key.
Bill concurred:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
Mark is 100% dead on. Also, the Indy I took my car to has coded hundreds of modules and maybe 85% do NOT need the steering angle sensor (SAS) zeroed-out or whatever they do to it.

Mark was able to get my steering angle sensor reading the same with wheel full left and full right ... which is part of getting the module calibrated; but the last part is just verifying that when the wheel is straight ahead, you are at zero from the SAS.

The cars that don't need steer angle sensor coded take about 10 minutes to code. If the steering angle sensor also needs calibration, it takes about 11 minutes!

ANYONE who tells you it takes 1.5 hours to code does not have a clue what they are doing, trust me on this....or they don't have the right tools as Mark suggested. I do not know about the GT-1 not being able to successfully code, but I defer to Mark on that as my Indy uses Autologic and I have seen him code two modules for me and the longest part of the job was to put the battery on the charger before he began the process.
In summary, do others think we should update the recommendations:
FROM:
- Have your new ABS control module recoded ...
TO:
- Have your new ABS control module recoded with Autologic (not GT1 or Progman) ...

Last edited by bluebee; 05-20-2011 at 10:03 AM.
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  #424  
Old 05-20-2011, 08:11 AM
kgorczyn kgorczyn is offline
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It's worth noting that I have researched this ABS issue for quite some time and for the first time it appears "oh by the way you need Autologic to code it the right way." Makes no sense to me. The dealer here and the 2 indie mechanics both use GT1/Progman and have had no severe issues, as we see in my case, on programing the module. I asked the indie if he has trouble programing the modules normally, and he said that sometimes he has to code it several times before it works right, but nothing like what my car is doing. I guess it makes sense with what Mark and Bill said, that using the GT1 is more cumbersome for some reason, but no reason on why it can't be done. All you are doing is following instructions on the screen as the program runs through its coding process. Sometimes it stops responding, crashes, gives communication error, requiring the tech to start over.

Anyway, just venting and not at anyone here, but man does something always come up. Apparently Autologic is not some software you can install either, it's a totally different piece of proprietary hardware that costs thousands of dollars.
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  #425  
Old 05-20-2011, 10:07 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
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Location: San Jose, California
 
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Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgorczyn View Post
for the first time it appears "oh by the way you need Autologic to code it the right way."
I'm sorry for the problem you're having and I wish I could have told you ahead of time what we're (apparently) finding out about the Autologic vs GT1 or Progman.

I didn't know. The good news is that your situation, as tough as it is for you, is expanding our combined tribal knowledge in an important direction.

Many of us don't need recoding because we have our old modules repaired, so, you're in the few percent who have a new module replaced. Since you're one of the few, it will help us greatly if you keep us informed as to the progress.

Thanks to your quest, we 'will' warn the next person who needs recoding ... but I agree with you ... makes no sense that the GT1 or Progman wouldn't do the same job as the Autologic (although I know little to nothing about how these things actually work). The only thing I have on it is this set of links:

- Description of Carsoft, GT1, INPA, DIS, EDIABAS, & Peake (1) & which can modify the auto-lock car door feature (1) & what does Carsoft do anyway (1) (2) (3) (4)

Good luck & keep us informed!
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