Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-20-2009, 08:39 PM
armoredsaint's Avatar
armoredsaint armoredsaint is offline
Pok Gai 1.0
Location: Middle Ohio
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 449
Mein Auto: '09 E92 335i M-Sport
TPMS? Passive or Active system?

On the new 2009 335i, is there actually sensors inside each wheel or is it a passive system like some cars where it just compares rotation to other tires?
__________________
2009 E92 335i ///M-Sport / Black Sapphire Metallic / Black / 6MT / Glacier Trim / Comfort / Nav+HD Radio / iPod+USB / Cold
Mods: Pinnacle Tint 50+35 / RD Angel Eyes / Mtec Foglights / 1w LED side markers / M3 Lip Spoiler
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 04-20-2009, 08:41 PM
philippek philippek is offline
Proud S ponsor
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,678
Mein Auto: Z4 M Cpe, Miata, X6 50i
sensors in the valve stems.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-20-2009, 08:41 PM
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
-=Hot|Ice=- -=Hot|Ice=- is offline
Re-Badged
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,798
Mein Auto: 2015 C63 AMG S
Active. Sensors are in the valve stem.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainAudio
In the words of one of Bimmerfest's greatest minds:"Been there, done that"
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Half the fun of succeeding in life is fighting the fight and making it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-20-2009, 08:42 PM
panerai7's Avatar
panerai7 panerai7 is offline
MT4LIFE
Location: Carolinas
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,744
Mein Auto: E92-M3, E90-335
Actual sensors in each wheel. Sedans prior march 2007 build had the passive system
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-21-2009, 05:42 AM
ProfessorCook's Avatar
ProfessorCook ProfessorCook is online now
Not a real doctor.
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,594
Mein Auto: 2009 328i Coupe
Both! I know the car keeps track of the sensors. (Did a bit of an experiment. Worked beauifully.) And I'm pretty sure the car still keeps track of wheel rpms.
__________________



'09 328i Coupe: MT, Monaco Blue, Black Dakota, Dark Burl, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, CA, Logic7, HD Radio, IPod
Ordered: 14Jan09; Delivered: 24Feb09 from Stratham, NH BMW
.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-21-2009, 06:15 AM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,123
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
Both! I know the car keeps track of the sensors. (Did a bit of an experiment. Worked beauifully.) And I'm pretty sure the car still keeps track of wheel rpms.
Both? Yes and no, and not maybe. (How's that for narrowing it down?)
Yes because all tire inflation systems are legislated to use real time data from each wheel. Therefore inflation is no longer inferred as a function of tire rotational speed, but as digital data broadcast by a pressure transducer located inside each wheel.
No because although the ABS computer still gets rotational speed of each wheel it gets it from a tone ring (a ring which generates an off/on signal X times as each wheel rotates. This signal is hardwired to the ABS computer.
Both because although the car knows the signals from each sensor it no longer has to mix the two for ABS and TPS monitoring. The two signals are discrete and handled separately.
(As an aside the ABS signal is the one used by the computer for stability control- as well as anti-lock braking functions)
(Aside #2. The TPS monitor inside each wheel is battery powered. These batteries are going to fail in roughly 7 years. The dashboard warning light -ABS- will illuminate when this happens. Be prepared to spend some money. Lots of money.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-21-2009, 06:26 AM
slant83 slant83 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: South Florida
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 493
Mein Auto: 2008 335 coupe
e=mc2
__________________

2013 X5
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-21-2009, 06:33 AM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,123
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Very good Slant, but can you tell us why?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-21-2009, 06:58 AM
cwinter's Avatar
cwinter cwinter is offline
Here comes trouble!
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,292
Mein Auto: 2009 328i E90 :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slant83 View Post
e=mc2
Since when?

E=mc^2 as far as I am concerned. Not that it matters in the greater scheme of things.

On a side note, DSX, great answer. How much can a dang battery inside valve stem cost?

I think when I priced tires on discounttire.com they said the replace the TPMS valve stems and they hardly charged but maybe $10 for those.

Not sure what to make of all that, so...
__________________
2009 328i Sedan - Ordered: 2/24/09 .:. Delivered: 5/6/09
Jet Black | Black Dakota | Aluminum | Premium | Sport | Xenon | CA | Split Fold Seats


Quote:
Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
You will rue this day, RUE THIS DAY
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:09 AM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,123
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
Since when?

E=mc^2 as far as I am concerned. Not that it matters in the greater scheme of things.

On a side note, DSX, great answer. How much can a dang battery inside valve stem cost?

I think when I priced tires on discounttire.com they said the replace the TPMS valve stems and they hardly charged but maybe $10 for those.

Not sure what to make of all that, so...
Hi CW. Some TPS monitors have replaceable valve stems, these are called insert types. You keep the same electronics and use a new valve stem (and related small parts).
The batteries themselves will probably go for around $5-10 each. The labor will be a killer. We'll have to remove each wheel from the car and break one beed to gain access to the monitor. The old monitor must be removed and disassembled to swap batteries. When it is reinstalled a new seal kit will be required. After reinflation the tire should be rebalanced-it doesn't have to be but it would be a shame not to check it at least. Then the wheel has to be reinstalled on the car.
My guess is that fewer than 10% of all machines in use today can quickly and safely handle RFTs so your choices of who will do the work will be limited. (Most BMW dealers obviously are equipped to do the work.)
My estimate to replace four batteries by an independent; $160-180. By a BMW dealer-more.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:39 AM
Orient330iNYC's Avatar
Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
Flying monkey herder
Location: Wall St
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,854
Mein Auto: Daihatsu Terrios
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Hi CW. Some TPS monitors have replaceable valve stems, these are called insert types. You keep the same electronics and use a new valve stem (and related small parts).
The batteries themselves will probably go for around $5-10 each. The labor will be a killer. We'll have to remove each wheel from the car and break one beed to gain access to the monitor. The old monitor must be removed and disassembled to swap batteries. When it is reinstalled a new seal kit will be required. After reinflation the tire should be rebalanced-it doesn't have to be but it would be a shame not to check it at least. Then the wheel has to be reinstalled on the car.
My guess is that fewer than 10% of all machines in use today can quickly and safely handle RFTs so your choices of who will do the work will be limited. (Most BMW dealers obviously are equipped to do the work.)
My estimate to replace four batteries by an independent; $160-180. By a BMW dealer-more.

the BMW tpms sensors are sealed-- there doesnt seem to be a way to open them up to replace the battery. the top is a solid plastic shell, the bottom looks like a silicone potting material.

OE Beru sensors without the stems are 40 each. OEM sensors (Beru) cost about 70 each.
__________________
Past: 2001 330i ZSP/ZPP/Step
Past: 2004 S60R 6MT Sport
Past: 2007 335i 6MT ZSP/ZCW/322/655
Past: 2010 335xi ZMP/ZCW/ZPP/PPK/PE
Present: 2013 335i 6MT ZMM/ZDH/ZTP/3AG/494/508
Current Homeland Threat Level:
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-21-2009, 09:44 AM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,123
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
the BMW tpms sensors are sealed-- there doesnt seem to be a way to open them up to replace the battery. the top is a solid plastic shell, the bottom looks like a silicone potting material.

OE Beru sensors without the stems are 40 each. OEM sensors (Beru) cost about 70 each.
Thanks for the info Orient. I didn't know BMW used Beru's, there are 7 different types and I haven't messed with a Beru yet. I did have to change a Toyota sensor recently. It took a battery but the problem was in the circuitry.
If the sensor will have to be changed this job is going to be even more expensive than I figured. I can imagine a lot of cars being driven with the little dashboard tire profile and the exclamation point lit up forever.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-21-2009, 10:38 AM
sgmpw sgmpw is offline
Registered User
Location: Ontario
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 64
Mein Auto: CR E92 335i 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
I can imagine a lot of cars being driven with the little dashboard tire profile and the exclamation point lit up forever.
+1
I've only had 3 days where I DIDN'T have at least the little exclamation point lit up (for different reasons).
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-21-2009, 01:03 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
DSX, when i bought a set of winter tires/wheels from TireRack the TPMS sensors were only $196 for a set. That doesn't seem like "lots of money" at the BMW level of ownership... Are you talking about something else?
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-21-2009, 01:35 PM
1CEBITN 1CEBITN is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Kansas
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 212
Mein Auto: 335i Sedan
Do the passive sensors have the same battery issues? I have an early build 07 so i have just the FTM I believe (rubber valve stems).
__________________
2007 Titanium Silver 335i Sedan w/Sport, Premium, Comfort Access, Steptronic...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-21-2009, 01:39 PM
Orient330iNYC's Avatar
Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
Flying monkey herder
Location: Wall St
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,854
Mein Auto: Daihatsu Terrios
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1CEBITN View Post
Do the passive sensors have the same battery issues? I have an early build 07 so i have just the FTM I believe (rubber valve stems).
there are no sensors and therefore no batteries in FTM
__________________
Past: 2001 330i ZSP/ZPP/Step
Past: 2004 S60R 6MT Sport
Past: 2007 335i 6MT ZSP/ZCW/322/655
Past: 2010 335xi ZMP/ZCW/ZPP/PPK/PE
Present: 2013 335i 6MT ZMM/ZDH/ZTP/3AG/494/508
Current Homeland Threat Level:
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-21-2009, 01:42 PM
1CEBITN 1CEBITN is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Kansas
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 212
Mein Auto: 335i Sedan
Thanks, Orient, that is probably the only advantage to FTM over TPMS but it is one less thing to worry about!
__________________
2007 Titanium Silver 335i Sedan w/Sport, Premium, Comfort Access, Steptronic...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-21-2009, 01:57 PM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,123
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
DSX, when i bought a set of winter tires/wheels from TireRack the TPMS sensors were only $196 for a set. That doesn't seem like "lots of money" at the BMW level of ownership... Are you talking about something else?
TireRack's TPMS sensor prices are unbeatable. Their prices are close to what I pay wholesale, they are not losing money, and they are making it on the tire sales. My margin would require that I sell these for at least $60 each. If I sold $800. worth of tires at the same time I might drop the sensor price a bit.
So take 4X60=240 and add 28 ea. for labor and balancing and now you're up to $352. That is a lot of money to many posters on this board. In the grand scheme of BMW ownership it isn't, but to turn off a warning light (which can be obsoleted with a tire pressure gauge) it is.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-21-2009, 02:19 PM
bluskye bluskye is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: chicago
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 784
Mein Auto: 2006 330i / 2007 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
DSX, when i bought a set of winter tires/wheels from TireRack the TPMS sensors were only $196 for a set. That doesn't seem like "lots of money" at the BMW level of ownership... Are you talking about something else?
$196 is almost the cost of parts for front rotors/pads from the dealership. You must be talking about the set of bmw owners that dont know the "righty tighty, lefty loosy" rule.

$196 for a set of "sensors" really does suck, considering my 06 330i doesnt need them.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-21-2009, 02:29 PM
AzNMpower32's Avatar
AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
Tar Heel Faithful
Location: WNC
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,909
Send a message via AIM to AzNMpower32
Mein Auto: X3
You can thank our government for the new, pricey direct TPMS systems. It's because Americans can't be bothered to regularly check their tire pressures.

BMWs in most other countries including Canada still use the FTM method.
__________________
Current consumption (X3): Spritmonitor.deTiguan 2,0 TFSI
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-21-2009, 02:55 PM
ProfessorCook's Avatar
ProfessorCook ProfessorCook is online now
Not a real doctor.
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,594
Mein Auto: 2009 328i Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Both? Yes and no, and not maybe. (How's that for narrowing it down?)
Yes because all tire inflation systems are legislated to use real time data from each wheel. Therefore inflation is no longer inferred as a function of tire rotational speed, but as digital data broadcast by a pressure transducer located inside each wheel.
No because although the ABS computer still gets rotational speed of each wheel it gets it from a tone ring (a ring which generates an off/on signal X times as each wheel rotates. This signal is hardwired to the ABS computer.
Both because although the car knows the signals from each sensor it no longer has to mix the two for ABS and TPS monitoring. The two signals are discrete and handled separately.
(As an aside the ABS signal is the one used by the computer for stability control- as well as anti-lock braking functions)
(Aside #2. The TPS monitor inside each wheel is battery powered. These batteries are going to fail in roughly 7 years. The dashboard warning light -ABS- will illuminate when this happens. Be prepared to spend some money. Lots of money.)
Well... I'd say indications are that both systems exist in my car. Here are two images taken from the manual. They are clearly describing both systems. I KNOW the TPMS is in place. I strongly suspect that the FTM is in place. (My only hesitation has to do with the asterisk indicating it's an optional feature. My car is loaded, so I'd be surprised if I didn't have it.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TPM Text.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	92.5 KB
ID:	182336   Click image for larger version

Name:	FTM Text.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	101.7 KB
ID:	182337  
__________________



'09 328i Coupe: MT, Monaco Blue, Black Dakota, Dark Burl, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, CA, Logic7, HD Radio, IPod
Ordered: 14Jan09; Delivered: 24Feb09 from Stratham, NH BMW
.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-21-2009, 03:25 PM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
bimmerfest Supporting Member
Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,123
Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorCook View Post
Well... I'd say indications are that both systems exist in my car. Here are two images taken from the manual. They are clearly describing both systems. I KNOW the TPMS is in place. I strongly suspect that the FTM is in place. (My only hesitation has to do with the asterisk indicating it's an optional feature. My car is loaded, so I'd be surprised if I didn't have it.)
Hmmm. I can tell you that my '07 owner's manual has some obsolete information in it, maybe your 328 manual is similar.
Comparing tire rotational speed (for purposes of determining proper tire inflation) in a car with TPMS is not only redundant, it is unneccessary. That would be like having sealed beam headlamps alongside xenon, like having a carburetor along with fuel injection, like manual seat controls with power adjustable seats. I can't see the need.
My guess is that either the copy editor missed it, or it's referring to the same system.
Did you say you purposely underinflated one tire and drove that way? Did the TPMS light come on or a different warning?

Last edited by DSXMachina; 04-21-2009 at 03:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-21-2009, 04:20 PM
ProfessorCook's Avatar
ProfessorCook ProfessorCook is online now
Not a real doctor.
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,594
Mein Auto: 2009 328i Coupe
I underinflated by about 5 psi and drove it less than 50 feet to see. 'Sure enough, I got the warning light. Assuredly this is from the TPMS.

I understand what you're saying about a redundant system, but perhaps it's there anyway. It would take almost no extra effort or expense to incorporate the FTM.
__________________



'09 328i Coupe: MT, Monaco Blue, Black Dakota, Dark Burl, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, CA, Logic7, HD Radio, IPod
Ordered: 14Jan09; Delivered: 24Feb09 from Stratham, NH BMW
.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-21-2009, 04:33 PM
1CEBITN 1CEBITN is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Kansas
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 212
Mein Auto: 335i Sedan
My guess is it is in the owner's manual b/c TPMS is on some cars and FTM is on others so they give you info on both and it is up to you to know what you have. You don't have both. My 07 doesn't have TPMS for example, I only have FTM. Other countries don't require it like the US does and it is cheaper to build a car without it...
__________________
2007 Titanium Silver 335i Sedan w/Sport, Premium, Comfort Access, Steptronic...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-21-2009, 05:04 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluskye View Post
$196 is almost the cost of parts for front rotors/pads from the dealership. You must be talking about the set of bmw owners that dont know the "righty tighty, lefty loosy" rule.

$196 for a set of "sensors" really does suck, considering my 06 330i doesnt need them.
I'm not sure what your point was here. But I ordered a set of wheels/tires and the TPMS sensors were pre-installed. That way I have two sets of wheels both with TPMS. It's handy to have, especially with RFTs. It's let me know of a leak before I could tell already, and I've only got 6000 miles on it.

I'm sure I'll come off sounding like a dick and I don't mean to, but if $200 every seven years (or extra set of wheels) even mattered to me, I'm driving the wrong car and should have gotten something cheaper. I paid more than double that for the frivolous ability to not take my key out of my pocket to unlock and start the car. Christ I spend more than that on booze in a month.
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms