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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #51  
Old 07-28-2009, 10:53 AM
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asaseaban asaseaban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden View Post
asaseaban - I'm confused. Do you own a car now, or are you leasing? Please clarify.
Hayden,

I'm leasing the car now. When i called BMWFS they told me my payoff amount was approximately $86k and it's good thru 8/5/2009. If they receive the payment by that date they will mail me the title for the car.
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  #52  
Old 07-28-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
I've always purchased my 7er and since i was getting into a new 7er almost every 3/4 years i thought it'll be best to lease. Somehow, when i was doing the paper work for my current lease i was still under the impression of financing (yes, believe it or not but all i was thinking of financing terms even though i was leasing) and thought paying for my taxes and fees upfront and also trading in my 745Li (paid with title in hand) will help minimize the down payment. Furthermore, i thought when i traded the car in after 3/4 years i'll get some of the money back or i could just sell it and use the money for another 7er or just keep the car.

Yes i'll admit this is all my fault because i was clueless about leasing and having a lower monthly payment (for finance) was preferrable, hence the $26 downpayment.

So to answer your question, i put down $26k to minimize my monthly payment for "financing" the vehicle and not lease it. Secondly, i wanted several other options that i didn't have and when i findout about the ED program and how i could get all the options i wanted for $12k less than what i currently have i decided to take it.

I'm only getting rid of my current 09 750Li so i can get into another 750Li with more options and pay almost the same monthly payment as i'm currently paying.

I sign for a 42 months with 35k miles lease that was presented to me and i didn't question anything because financing and leasing had blur together in my mind.

Basically i got into something that i didn't know anything about and i got screwed. I'm willing to take my losses and get the car with the options that i really wanted.
So to clarify, you have:
1. a 200_ 745Li that you own outright
2. a 2009 750Li that you are leasing with a monthly payment of $1408.86. (48 month term) You paid $__ down?

You want to:
1. Get rid of both cars and lease a new ED 2009 750Li for 36 months

Is this correct?
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  #53  
Old 07-28-2009, 10:56 AM
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  #54  
Old 07-28-2009, 10:59 AM
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asaseaban asaseaban is offline
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Hayden,

Sorry for the confusion but the 745Li is what i traded in to get the 09 750Li. I want to get rid of the current 750Li i'm leasing so i can get into ED 750Li which has all the options that my current 750Li does not have. The Euro trip is also a factor even though i can do my own Euro trip another time.

What I currently have
09 750Li Sedan
Mineral White Metallic
Oyster Nappa Leather
Fine Line High Gloss Wood trim
Camera Package
Convenience Package
Driver Assistance Package
Luxury Rear Seating Package
Luxury Seating Package
Premium Sound Package
Rear Entertainment Package
19" Light-alloy wheels multi-spoke (Style 235) w/performance tires
Ceramic Controls
Head-up Display
Instrument panel with leather finish
Smartphone Integration
Satellite radio with 1 year subscription
MSRP $105,569.00 (didn't get any discount or whatsoever)


What I plan on getting
09 750Li Sedan
Titanium Silver Metallic
Saddle and Black Nappa Leather
Fine Line High Gloss Wood trim
Camera Package
Convenience Package
Driver Assistance Package
Luxury Rear Seating Package
Luxury Seating Package
Premium Sound Package
Rear Entertainment Package
Sport Package
Active Cruise Control
Ceramic Controls
Head-up Display
Instrument panel with leather finish
Massaging rear seat
Smartphone Integration
MSRP $111420, ED MSRP $98825 (including dealership profit)
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2000 740iL Space Gray - Sold
2003 745Li Titanium Silver - Sold
2009 750Li Mineral White - Sold
2009 750Li Titanium Silver
2011 xDrive35d Vermilion Red - Sold
2012 xDrive35d Vermilion Red

Last edited by asaseaban; 07-28-2009 at 11:17 AM.
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  #55  
Old 07-28-2009, 11:16 AM
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That's correct!
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  #56  
Old 07-28-2009, 11:46 AM
dm5272 dm5272 is offline
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What! No Individual Package???

Kidding -

Looks like a great setup there! ED is AMAZING!
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  #57  
Old 07-28-2009, 12:15 PM
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hayden hayden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Sorry for the confusion but the 745Li is what i traded in to get the 09 750Li. I want to get rid of the current 750Li i'm leasing so i can get into ED 750Li which has all the options that my current 750Li does not have. The Euro trip is also a factor even though i can do my own Euro trip another time.
Got it. Looks like selling it privately will yield you the most return at this point. That sure is an ugly situation asaseaban!

How much was your total drive-off (down payment + 1st month + fees, etc) for the current 750Li you have now?
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  #58  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:10 PM
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asaseaban asaseaban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden View Post
Got it. Looks like selling it privately will yield you the most return at this point. That sure is an ugly situation asaseaban!

How much was your total drive-off (down payment + 1st month + fees, etc) for the current 750Li you have now?
$26,150.12 to be exact.

I'm sure in one heck of an ugly situation...but so far i've learn a lot...not only about leasing but about life as well; don't do anything unless you know what f**** you're doing or getting into.

Will put it on Ebay and Autotrader and see what happens.
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  #59  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
$26,150.12 to be exact.
Holy F! On top of everything else... the 48 month term was really a killer since the MF goes up so dramatically.
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  #60  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:38 PM
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asaseaban asaseaban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden View Post
Holy F! On top of everything else... the 48 month term was really a killer since the MF goes up so dramatically.
It wasn't 48 months...it was 42 months. Now that i've seen some of the the basic lease deals out there, 42 is not even in there...24, 36, 48, etc. How the finance guy managed to give me a 42 months lease with 35k miles still beats me.

Seriously, i didn't comeup with any of these numbers. The finance guy basically gave me the sheet and really emphasized on the low monthly payments and i just sign everything and that was it.
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  #61  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:47 PM
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hayden hayden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
It wasn't 48 months...it was 42 months. Now that i've seen some of the the basic lease deals out there, 42 is not even in there...24, 36, 48, etc. How the finance guy managed to give me a 42 months lease with 35k miles still beats me.

Seriously, i didn't comeup with any of these numbers. The finance guy basically gave me the sheet and really emphasized on the low monthly payments and i just sign everything and that was it.
I would really love to see your purchase agreement to see how they calculated all this. Can you scan it and post it? You can black out or blur any sensitive info.
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  #62  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:51 PM
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Will find a scanner and scan it. Not sure how it will look since it's one of those long yellow sheets.
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  #63  
Old 07-28-2009, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
It wasn't 48 months...it was 42 months. Now that i've seen some of the the basic lease deals out there, 42 is not even in there...24, 36, 48, etc. How the finance guy managed to give me a 42 months lease with 35k miles still beats me.

Seriously, i didn't comeup with any of these numbers. The finance guy basically gave me the sheet and really emphasized on the low monthly payments and i just sign everything and that was it.
What the dealership has done here borders on the abuse of customers.
You might want to contact BMWNA and send them a copy of your lease and ask them if this is how they want their dealerships to treat their highest margin customers.
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  #64  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:05 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
What the dealership has done here borders on the abuse of customers.
You might want to contact BMWNA and send them a copy of your lease and ask them if this is how they want their dealerships to treat their highest margin customers.
I'd argue that caveat emptor was ignored instead. The dealer presented a deal, and it was agreed upon. What should the dealer have done differently? Not mark up the MF?

The important thing is, a lesson learned, an error not to be repeated.
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1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
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Last edited by chrischeung; 07-28-2009 at 04:13 PM.
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  #65  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
I'd argue that caveat emptor was ignored instead. The dealer presented a deal, and it was agreed upon. What should the dealer have done differently? Not mark up the MF?

The important thing is, a lesson learned, an error not to be repeated.
Exactly! I made a mistake and my hope is by sharing this information on this forum others MAY or WILL learn from it and NEVER experience my predicament.
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2003 745Li Titanium Silver - Sold
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  #66  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
I'd argue that caveat emptor was ignored instead. The dealer presented a deal, and it was agreed upon. What should the dealer have done differently? Not mark up the MF?

The important thing is, a lesson learned, an error not to be repeated.
you think MF markup was it? Have you calculated his total price??
The dealer went out of his way to screw him. If you want to defend it - fine, but he has a right to fight it if he doesn't like it.
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  #67  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:54 PM
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SARAFIL SARAFIL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
you think MF markup was it? Have you calculated his total price??
The dealer went out of his way to screw him. If you want to defend it - fine, but he has a right to fight it if he doesn't like it.

Well, looks like they sold the car at MSRP and did 42 months instead of 36 months, because 42 months uses "standard" rate that can be marked up alot more than the subvented rate for 36 months. They did everything they could to maximize their profit yet I don't see any evidence that they sold over MSRP or charged fees/rates that were more than they were allowed... business is business and buyer beware. Their first offer is going to be maximum profit for the dealer, just like anyone here would probably make their first offer to buy the car one that gives them the lowest possible price at the expense of the dealer's profit. Unfortunate-- yes. But, it's the risk you take when you lease car without a basic understanding of how it works.
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  #68  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:00 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL View Post
Well, looks like they sold the car at MSRP and did 42 months instead of 36 months, because 42 months uses "standard" rate that can be marked up alot more than the subvented rate for 36 months. They did everything they could to maximize their profit yet I don't see any evidence that they sold over MSRP or charged fees/rates that were more than they were allowed... business is business and buyer beware. Their first offer is going to be maximum profit for the dealer, just like anyone here would probably make their first offer to buy the car one that gives them the lowest possible price at the expense of the dealer's profit. Unfortunate-- yes. But, it's the risk you take when you lease car without a basic understanding of how it works.
I think I saw the attachment with his numbers that showed inflated Cap cost by $4322 on top of MSRP, is that not correct?
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  #69  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:04 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
you think MF markup was it? Have you calculated his total price??
The dealer went out of his way to screw him. If you want to defend it - fine, but he has a right to fight it if he doesn't like it.
Naturally - but isn't complaining to BMW the wrong audience?

Wouldn't this instead be the folks who regulate the auto industry? I'm not sure BMW dealers should operate under different rules to any other auto dealer out there. So BMW should illegally tell their dealers that they cannot sell their cars over MSRP, above inovice, or some fixed amount? What would you advise BMW to legally do in this case? Tell the dealer to make less profit because they made so much money last year?

And before you say that this is not common practice in retailing - it is widely known that companies like Toys R'us sell their products for over MSRP. Do you see price continuity between grocery stores? The price of milk? Airline tickets? Why should selling cars be any different?

Sure - the purchaser is free to do whatever he wants - but if the dealer was fully within the law and general automotive selling practices, I don't see BMW or anyone changing anything. All that does is waste the purchaser's time.
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 07-28-2009 at 05:15 PM.
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  #70  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:14 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Naturally - but isn't complaining to BMW the wrong audience?

Wouldn't this instead be the folks who regulate the auto industry? I'm not sure BMW dealers should operate under different rules to any other auto dealer out there. So BMW should illegally tell their dealers that they cannot sell their cars over MSRP?
I am against regulations, I am for fair business practices. The reason I suggested BMWNA is that the type of customer who buys 7 is the most valuable since the profit margin is huge, although unit value is not, it's still very important market segment.
Do you really believe that everyone should be screwing everyone else as much as possible?
What if the customer is 90 years old, doesn't understand leasing, doesn't have access to any help, should he then be really focked up as much as possible? Should the dentist put extra fillings in your teeth if you cannot read xrays?
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  #71  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:18 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asaseaban View Post
Exactly! I made a mistake and my hope is by sharing this information on this forum others MAY or WILL learn from it and NEVER experience my predicament.
Before I found info on boards like this, I overpaid as well. I learned my lessons, and was better for it. In fact, it makes the purchasing process simpler for the seller as well. I get rewarded with a lower price - and the seller gets a quicker and smoother sale.
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454
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  #72  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:19 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Naturally - but isn't complaining to BMW the wrong audience?

Wouldn't this instead be the folks who regulate the auto industry? I'm not sure BMW dealers should operate under different rules to any other auto dealer out there. So BMW should illegally tell their dealers that they cannot sell their cars over MSRP, above inovice, or some fixed amount? What would you advise BMW to legally do in this case? Tell the dealer to make less profit because they made so much money last year?

And before you say that this is not common practice in retailing - it is widely known that companies like Toys R'us sell their products for over MSRP. Do you see price continuity between grocery stores? The price of milk? Airline tickets? Why should selling cars be any different?
Sure - the purchaser is free to do whatever he wants - but if the dealer was fully within the law and general automotive selling practices, I don't see BMW or anyone changing anything. All that does is waste the purchaser's time.
Don't they list their prices on the product and then verify at checkout? Or do they hide them in the Toys R'us cost cap adjustment so folks cannot understand this?
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  #73  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:20 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
I am against regulations, I am for fair business practices. The reason I suggested BMWNA is that the type of customer who buys 7 is the most valuable since the profit margin is huge, although unit value is not, it's still very important market segment.
Do you really believe that everyone should be screwing everyone else as much as possible?
What if the customer is 90 years old, doesn't understand leasing, doesn't have access to any help, should he then be really focked up as much as possible? Should the dentist put extra fillings in your teeth if you cannot read xrays?
What is your legal solution that solves every scenario and pleases all parties?
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454
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  #74  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:26 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
Don't they list their prices on the product and then verify at checkout? Or do they hide them in the Toys R'us cost cap adjustment so folks cannot understand this?
Do you understand sales taxes? Coming from Australia, my first visit to the US was interesting, when I found that you pay $2.12 for a $2 book. Cap Cost is something specific to leasing in the auto industry. It's the buyers responsibility to find out about the terms of leasing, and read all documentation. It is not the seller's responsibility to explain it to them.

When I did my first lease, I asked for a blank copy of the form a day or so before signing so that I could read and resarch. If you don't like the form - lobby to get it changed.
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
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3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
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  #75  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:27 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
What is your legal solution that solves every scenario and pleases all parties?
I don't have one; they don't teach it at HBS. I was referring to this case because it was too egregious. The common practive among some dealers I've talked to in the Boston area, if the customer is ignorant, sell it for 1K under MSRP, markup the MF and call it a day.
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