Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)

E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:10 PM
mr.miriclewhip mr.miriclewhip is offline
Registered User
Location: IL
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 22
Mein Auto: 2004 330ci
does anyone have an approximate time for this diy? i know not all guys are created equal and some are slower then others. but roughly how long and difficult is this job.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-13-2012, 07:54 PM
Wayne's World Wayne's World is offline
Monkey Wrencher
Location: Easton, PA
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 215
Mein Auto: 2005 325i Sport 5spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.miriclewhip View Post
does anyone have an approximate time for this diy? i know not all guys are created equal and some are slower then others. but roughly how long and difficult is this job.
12-15 hours mainly because you'll want to let the injectors soak in solvent overnight.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Bimmer App
__________________
2002 Sterling Gray M5
'nuff said
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-13-2012, 10:55 PM
GoForthFast GoForthFast is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,486
Mein Auto: '04 330Ci 6-speed
I used this DIY for my injector replacement with rebuilt units last year. Watch out because some of the instructions here do not apply to different years. My injectors came unlocked differently than this DIY states.
I'd guess at a time for this at 3-4 hours if you are swapping injectors.
Use O-ring lube when putting things back together.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:46 PM
Gaza77 Gaza77 is offline
Registered User
Location: Burbank, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 49
Mein Auto: Burbank, CA
Pulling Fuel Injectors............

I've taken out my air intake to replace my starter and wanted to change the o-rings on my fuel injectors and possibly clean them.

I'm having trouble getting the injectors out. I already removed the air intake as an assembly with the fuel rail. Can you give me any tips on removing the injectors.

Also, how should I clean the injectors, or should I not clean them.

Thank you for any help you might be able to give.

Cheers,
William
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-28-2013, 02:00 PM
GoForthFast GoForthFast is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,486
Mein Auto: '04 330Ci 6-speed
Are you referring to intake manifold or air intake? Because you do not have to remove either to get at the injectors. I'm confused.

I bought reman injectors because if you're going to all this trouble, get the critical internal parts replaced by the pros. You'll not accomplish much by soaking them yourself if you have had problems with them.

Why disturb your O-rings if nothing was wrong there?

Last edited by GoForthFast; 09-28-2013 at 02:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 10-02-2013, 08:37 PM
Gaza77 Gaza77 is offline
Registered User
Location: Burbank, CA
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 49
Mein Auto: Burbank, CA
I'm referring to the air intake manifold. The reason I started the project was to get to, and test my starter from the top instead of the bottom. Because I had to remove the throttle body, DISA Valve, ICV, and CVV, along with the air intake manifold I figured I'd clean up my fuel system and over haul my emission system. I'm replacing vacuum lines and such and thought to cover any possible air leaks by replacing all my gaskets (throttle Body gasket, Air Intake Manifold, and DISA Valve gasket) as well as any rubber like the o-rings on the injectors. My injectors seem to be fine. Just doing preventive maintenance.

However, my injectors are really in there. Just wanted a bit more information before I damage my injectors trying to take them out and/or ruin my fuel rail.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
William
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:25 AM
GoForthFast GoForthFast is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New York
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,486
Mein Auto: '04 330Ci 6-speed
There are clips in the injectors holding them in differently than the DIY, on my car. Once loose, they came out of my car easily.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-15-2014, 02:19 PM
4Reagan 4Reagan is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325i
Good Day! I have a quick question...

I just replaced the upper/lower o-rings on my injectors on a 2002 330ci (it's getting cold in Wisconsin). Before I put all the covers back in place I turned the ignition on just to start the fuel pump to check for pressure and leaks...and sure enough 4 of the injectors are leaking at the manifold. I installed the injectors into the rail first then seated the entire piece into the manifold. I pressed the rail firmly down up and down the rail with slight wiggling motion to get it to seat correctly. However I never felt any sort of "POP" like the injectors seated solidly in the manifold but I really can't push it down any further because of the 4 rail mounting braces. I have also verified the o-rings are correct size.

Anyone have any ideas or a similar experience? I'm really not sure what to do going forward. Thanks!!!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-15-2014, 03:23 PM
SilberVogel SilberVogel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tulsa, OK
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 2002 330Ci Conv.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Reagan View Post
Good Day! I have a quick question...

I just replaced the upper/lower o-rings on my injectors on a 2002 330ci (it's getting cold in Wisconsin). Before I put all the covers back in place I turned the ignition on just to start the fuel pump to check for pressure and leaks...and sure enough 4 of the injectors are leaking at the manifold. I installed the injectors into the rail first then seated the entire piece into the manifold. I pressed the rail firmly down up and down the rail with slight wiggling motion to get it to seat correctly. However I never felt any sort of "POP" like the injectors seated solidly in the manifold but I really can't push it down any further because of the 4 rail mounting braces. I have also verified the o-rings are correct size.

Anyone have any ideas or a similar experience? I'm really not sure what to do going forward. Thanks!!!

I had a very similar experience about this time last year (2002 330Ci here, as well). Long story short, smelled fuel, saw leak, replaced o-rings, no fix. On closer inspection, turned out 3 of my injectors were leaking, partly externally which could be seen and smelled, and partly internally which was causing an intermittent warm start/long crank situation at the time. I had read that leaking fuel injectors were not that common, especially on 2003+ models (supposedly a manufacturing change), but here's some information that may apply to your situation. All the information below applied to my scenario, and buying six new Siemens VDO injectors solved everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e36-2.0
So just to update everyone with regards to the leaky injectors from the thread posted above. There is nothing broken with your cars! I had been advised by my BMW mechanic that the problem lies with the injector itself where parts of the housing shrinks in the cold. Once the vehicle is warmed up after some driving the injectors will return to its proper state and stop leaking. Changing your seals will not fix the problem. BMW updated these injectors using a better material that doesnt shrink in extreme cold temps after 2003. I was able to get my hands on 2003+ injectors for my car and I no longer have this problem.

Source: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=10.
Here's a video of fuel injectors leaking from the body/terminals. Mine did not leak this bad or as quickly, but they were very visibly wet after priming the fuel pump.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Above YouTube Video
On cold start ups where the temperature drops below -20 Celcius, these fuel injectors leak. Apparently there was a bad batch of fuel injectors that were never recalled. There was only an internal Service Bulletin with BMW where all the injectors must be replaced. I did my best to try to find the bulletin on the internet but came up short so I can't cite it directly. The only fix is to buy new Siemens VDO injectors which have addressed and remedied this exact problem.
Additionally...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj
The problem with the leaking injectors is they leak at the body/wiring terminal, not into the engine. I also recall this was usually only at very cold temperatures, but I have not witnessed this myself.

If you have the leaking injectors at the body/wiring terminals, suggest you fill out a complaint form on NHTSA. It will not do you any good this point, but you may get refunded if the injectors are ever recalled.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Leaking fuel is both a safety and emissions problem. I cannot believe this issues was never recalled, but it probably should be.

The problem with a lot of these types of issues, they are beyond the warranty period and many may DIY and the stats for the failure rate never gets enough data to track.

Source: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...73&postcount=5.
If you determine your fuel injectors are leaking at the body, I'd also suggest filing a complaint with NHTSA. You might see what other input people have to offer here, but everything you described sounds very similar. Hope this helps!
__________________



DIYs help you save money with repairs; let www.bmwpnpc.com help you save money with the parts.

Last edited by SilberVogel; 11-16-2014 at 08:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-15-2014, 03:54 PM
latitude39 latitude39 is offline
Registered User
Location: US - Colorado
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 67
Mein Auto: E46-325xi; F34-328GT
4Reagan, I *just* had the same problem in not getting a satisfying "click" or "pop". I then used a PTFE (Teflon) "SuperLube" that comes in a tiny little tube. Just a tiny filament of grease around the bottom O-rings was enough to make them slip in with minimal pressure.
See my thread at http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...5&postcount=42
See the image of the SuperLube
I was not able to get the O-rings to seat with ordinary moly grease. The Teflon grease did the trick, giving the tactile feedback of well-seated injectors.

Lubricate the O-rings with that stuff and they'll slip in under mild pressure, giving that satisfying "pop" feeling. Good luck!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Reagan View Post
Good Day! I have a quick question...

I just replaced the upper/lower o-rings on my injectors on a 2002 330ci (it's getting cold in Wisconsin). Before I put all the covers back in place I turned the ignition on just to start the fuel pump to check for pressure and leaks...and sure enough 4 of the injectors are leaking at the manifold. I installed the injectors into the rail first then seated the entire piece into the manifold. I pressed the rail firmly down up and down the rail with slight wiggling motion to get it to seat correctly. However I never felt any sort of "POP" like the injectors seated solidly in the manifold but I really can't push it down any further because of the 4 rail mounting braces. I have also verified the o-rings are correct size.

Anyone have any ideas or a similar experience? I'm really not sure what to do going forward. Thanks!!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-15-2014, 04:01 PM
latitude39 latitude39 is offline
Registered User
Location: US - Colorado
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 67
Mein Auto: E46-325xi; F34-328GT
Harbor Freight sells SuperLube:

http://www.harborfreight.com/85-gram...dge-93744.html
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-15-2014, 04:11 PM
SilberVogel SilberVogel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tulsa, OK
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 2002 330Ci Conv.
+1 on Super Lube; great stuff and it helps a lot with o-rings. If you have a fuel leak from the injectors, however, the top o-rings are the only ones that will have an impact.
__________________



DIYs help you save money with repairs; let www.bmwpnpc.com help you save money with the parts.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-15-2014, 05:10 PM
latitude39 latitude39 is offline
Registered User
Location: US - Colorado
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 67
Mein Auto: E46-325xi; F34-328GT
Thanks SilberVogel. You are right. After thinking about it I understand. A loose fit at the manifold won't result in a gasoline leak.

Still, 4Reagan was trying to solve the secondary problem of seating O-rings into the manifold. I am fresh off dealing with my injectors and was glad to chime in. In fact, I had struggled with seating the injectors, exactly as 4Reagan had.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilberVogel View Post
+1 on Super Lube; great stuff and it helps a lot with o-rings. If you have a fuel leak from the injectors, however, the top o-rings are the only ones that will have an impact.
__________________

Last edited by latitude39; 11-15-2014 at 05:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-15-2014, 05:41 PM
SilberVogel SilberVogel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tulsa, OK
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 2002 330Ci Conv.
Quote:
Originally Posted by latitude39 View Post
Thanks SilberVogel. You are right. After thinking about it I understand. A loose fit at the manifold won't result in a gasoline leak.

Still, 4Reagan was trying to solve the secondary problem of seating O-rings into the manifold. I am fresh off dealing with my injectors and was glad to chime in. In fact, I had struggled with seating the injectors, exactly as 4Reagan had.
Add me to the list! I actually had that same issue with seating the injectors, as well, when I first did mine. The Super Lube actually made it easier when I later had to take everything back apart to put new injectors in.
__________________



DIYs help you save money with repairs; let www.bmwpnpc.com help you save money with the parts.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-17-2014, 02:44 PM
4Reagan 4Reagan is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325i
Thanks for all the well thought out advice...I just bought a tube of Super Lube and gonna give that a try. SilberVogel made me question where the actual leaks are really coming from??? Under pressure from the fuel pump some of the injectors look like they are leaking from the manifold, some from the rail and at least one looks like fuel is coming from the electrical connection...Although it is hard to really tell exactly. I'm questioning whether I really have the right size O-Rings??? Questioning cracked injectors...Seems weird that I'd lose 3 or 4 all at once (it hasn't been REAL cold yet - or cold enough to crack injectors, or maybe I cracked them). I'll try the lube 1st, new O-rings 2nd and then move on to the injectors last...Provided I don't blow myself up in the process.

I hate it when simple things go complicated.

Thnx for everyone's help. I'll report on the process and outcome.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-17-2014, 03:06 PM
SilberVogel SilberVogel is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tulsa, OK
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 109
Mein Auto: 2002 330Ci Conv.
Thatís the right order to troubleshoot everything. Same steps I had to go through and became pretty efficient at it pretty quickly. Good luck, and thanks for sharing what you find.

Provided you don't light up a cigar, you should walk away with all your fingers.
__________________



DIYs help you save money with repairs; let www.bmwpnpc.com help you save money with the parts.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-25-2014, 09:06 PM
4Reagan 4Reagan is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325i
::Mission Update::
I purchased the Super Lube from HF and also bought a new set of o-rings from Pelican (why not - $40.00 for the set). First of all...the Super Lube allowed the injectors to fit easily and firmly (Thnx Latitude39!). The new o-rings looked exactly the same as the current ones that I just replaced but I replaced them anyway. I put everything necessary back together to test - turned the key to the 2nd position for the fuel pump...and...Still Leaking!!!!!! What a buzz kill. It really looks like it's leaking at the top (at the fuel rail) and I'd have to say 4 of the 6 injectors are leaking. When the key was turned to the 2nd position I could actually hear air escaping right before the fuel began to hiss and leak at the injector.

Now I can certainly imagine that fuel injectors would crack and leak (I had that problem with 1 injector on a 2000 323), but what really confuses me is why there would be so many leaks all at the same time??? It hasn't been below zero (Yet) and the car sits in a heated garage. Is it possible that 4 injectors would fail at the same time? It really appears that the leaks are coming from the top at the fuel rail - Is it possible that there is something wrong with the rail itself? I guess for troubleshooting purposes I will replace 1 of the injectors that I can see is leaking and at that point I will be able to work from there.

On a brighter note- I have become very proficient at removing and reinstalling the fuel rail.

Keep your RPMs up! Thnx to everyone for your help.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-26-2014, 08:01 AM
latitude39 latitude39 is offline
Registered User
Location: US - Colorado
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 67
Mein Auto: E46-325xi; F34-328GT
4Reagan,

My recommendation of using Super-Lube must be qualified: I used them ONLY on the lower O-rings, those that plugged into the manifold. Those O-rings don't have to seal gasoline under pressure. They only have to seal a vacuum, which isn't as critical. I had no problem inserting the injectors into the rail and therefore DID NOT use SuperLube at that point. I ONLY used SL on the manifold insertion.

I also had a leaking problem after putting silicone grease, Dow Molykote 111, on the O-rings that sealed the plastic coolant pipes, those 2 under the intake manifold (see my thread in fanatics, referenced earlier). I had no problem with the injectors at the rail but, again, I did not use SL at the rail-to-injector interface.

I think silicone grease (or Teflon/PTFE) is a mistake on O-rings under pressure.

If you lubricated the upper O-rings, my recommendation is to pull the injectors, remove and clean the O-rings, of the slippery Teflon grease at the fuel rail, clean the holes in the rail. Then reinsert the injectors, dry. Still use SuperLube at the intake manifold only.

The only place I think greasing O-rings is useful is at the injector-to-manifold O-rings when you're trying to insert 6 at the same time.

I hope things go your way on your next try. Work with a cold engine since gasoline is involved.

After saying all that, it may be possible that in handling the injectors the leaky FI problem was triggered in multiple injectors--at the same time. SilberVogel's solution of replacing injectors may be the only solution. IDK.

Good luck



Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Reagan View Post
::Mission Update::

...Still Leaking!!!!!! What a buzz kill. It really looks like it's leaking at the top (at the fuel rail) ... hear air escaping right before the fuel began to hiss and leak at the injector.

... confuses me is why there would be so many leaks all at the same time??? .

Keep your RPMs up! Thnx to everyone for your help.
__________________

Last edited by latitude39; 11-26-2014 at 08:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-08-2014, 11:02 AM
4Reagan 4Reagan is offline
Registered User
Location: Wisconsin
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 56
Mein Auto: 325i
:: Fuel Injector Post Mortem ::

It is fixed! I purchased a used fuel rail and 6 injectors from a totaled 2005 3.0 X5 with 50K miles ($88.00). Swapped out all 6 injectors...No leaks and actually the car seemed to idle much more smoothley. I'm still very confused why I would have multiple injectors all fail at exactly the same time??? If it ever happened again I think I would still asume it was o-rings. This was quite a good learning experience for me and I REALLY appreciate everyone's assistance and support.

Cheers!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E46 (1999 - 2006)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms